Strongest Wheels on the market

Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
797
Location
Rhone-Alpes
Please give some tips and tricks on making a strong, low maintenence hub and rim that is bomb proof, for any tyre size from 2" to 2.3"

An awesome dude from cyclingabout has made a list of the toughest rims available to make into ebikes... I found this after a while of rummaging for pages about Sun Rhyno 745g wheels which are difficult to find these days.

http://www.cyclingabout.com/the-best-rims-for-bicycle-touring/
good page.

the info for posterity:

26 Inch Rims
Ryde Andra 30 (strongest available according to the site)
735g

Ryde Sputnik
670g

Ryde Andra 40
750g

EXAL ML21
600g

EXAL XL25
705g

Sun Rhyno Lite
575g

Velocity Atlas Disc
560g

Velocity Cliff Hanger
600g

Mavic XM719: NOT RECOMMENDED
475g


650B Rims
Velocity Atlas Disc
590g

Velocity Cliff Hanger
635g

700C Rims (29″)
Andra 30
815g

Ryde Sputnik
745g

Ryde Andra 40
815g

EXAL ML21
660g

EXAL XL25
770g

Velocity Atlas Disc
620g

Velocity Cliff Hanger
675g

Mavic A719
565g

DT Swiss TK540
545g
 
You couldn't pay me to use any of those rims on an ebike. They are all too narrow. Even the 25mm ones.
 
Those are mostly rims that are good for legal ebikes or light weight mid drives, some of them even ridiculous to list as strong rims. Some of them can be built good enough for a powerful hub, but few ebike enthusiasts will like their size and find someone able to do it, or learn how.

Its is not surprising that so many fast ebike builders are turning to motorcycle rims, given the poor choice and info that is available to them.
 
you are welcome to give more info for current tough wheel options.

If you are near germany here's a place with andra 730g wheels. https://www.bike24.de/1.php?content=13&search=ryde

I was considering lacing up carbon fiber twine with epoxy in a serynge for the rear wheel spokes instead of steel and using just steel for the front wheel. crazy :mrgreen:
 
Spokes are not the problem. 36 stainless steel 14 ga spokes laced single cross true and tight can stand a lot of weight and abuse. The problem is the rim thickness at the nipple seat, making mandatory to use nipple washers. Wide rims are doing much better, no less than 45mm. I am using 65mm rims with 3.0 tires on the street. They are laced with DT Swiss 14 ga spokes, using long nipples and washers. This is on a 25 lbs motor that is fed 20+ Kw, riding on rough streets with potholes and bumps. Maintained true and tight with frequent inspection. Re-laced every springtime as preventive maintenance. Top speed about 130 kmh.
 
zzoing said:
Sun Rhyno Lite 575g
I bought this rim from Chain Reaction for C$35
I am not sure about it, I like the extra material around the nipple hole. I forget what that is called.
I am having a hard time with the rim, and the Conhismotor 1500W motor which is probably just a 9C clone, and the 1500W is over-rated, probably 1000W rating is more adequate.
I am either popping the head of the spoke, or the spoke is breaking just below the nipple.
Its more then likely the generic spokes (Bavel) are the cause. But what I am seeing is that the nipples are not inline with the spoke when tightened. I am probably going to bite the bullet and buy 13/14 butted spokes from Justin at ebikes.ca as I want to try out his new connectors for the phase wires, and buy some Powerpoles.

I have laced that rim 3 or 4 times now. So going for a 4/5th time with careful methodical, absolute trueness with another set of Bavel spokes (no name chinese spokes) then if its still frocked, going with Sapim spokes.

Even the Sapim nipples sat the same as the Bavel nipples.
 
For a given format of rim, I'd lean towards the heavier rims, and especially rims described as "downhill".

If you don't need rim brakes, a single-wall aluminum moped rim is very strong, and I am convinced that the smaller the diameter, the stronger it is (if all other factors are the same). The 16-inch moped rims are about the same size as 20-inch bicycle, and 17-inch has a pretty good selection of tires.

I have a 19-inch moped rim on the back, and it's roughly the same size as a 24-inch bicycle rim.
 
markz said:
I am not sure about it, I like the extra material around the nipple hole. I forget what that is called.
eyelets?

I am either popping the head of the spoke, or the spoke is breaking just below the nipple.
<snip>
But what I am seeing is that the nipples are not inline with the spoke when tightened.
If the spoke bends significantly somewhere along it's length (espeically at the nipple, if it's doing it at the threads themselves), it's possible to crack it from changes in tension as you ride it, and though a better quality spoke might be less likely to do it, it still happens.

Justin had me try an experiment with some spare spokes he sent me along with ones I bought for a wheel build, of a half-radial half-1x, to see if it would make a stronger wheel than a pure radial for a 20" rim and big DD hubmotor.

The 1x side required bending the spokes somewhere along their length, with quite an angle to the bend, to prevent the bending happening at the nipple / threads where it would definitely be a problem. It seemed to go well, but because the bend prevents normal full tensioning (which requires a straight line on the spoke itself), the tension would change during rotation and flex the elbow, eventually breaking spokes. :(

Doing the bend at the nipple appears to allow normal tensioning, but then the spoke cracks at the thread itself. :/

Relacing as a pure 1x worked fine, and is still working even after relacing the same spokes into a new rim (due to the sidewall of the rim splitting open due to an impact bend over time).

So if you have a problem with them breaking because of the bend, the way to fix that is by eliminating the bend. ;)

If it's a 3x wheel, try a 2x lacing instead, or if it's a 2x, try a 1x. If it's such a small rim and large hub that even a 1x has too much bend, try radial (0x).

Alternately, you can get domed washers (I forget the technical name, might be belleville) that push the nipple head away from the rim inside, but still support it against hte rim, and allow more of an angle to the nipple that helps it match the spoke angle. There's a limit to what you can do depending on the hole size in the rim, though.
 
Oh I must add to, when I was lacing the hub I never alternated the flange spoke entry. It was all one way, so the head of the nipple was always on the outside, and the bend of the spoke between the flanges.

I see professional lacers alternate. This is to allow the spokes, when crossing each other, to have room and not rub against each other. Which is what I noticed with my current dilemma.

I hope to get my MXUS 3k V2 fixed so I can ride it. But I laced it the same way (non-alternating). I hope thats not an issue doing it that way. I dont know why I did it that way originally, I think it was a picture I saw of the Adaptto MXUS doing it the non alternating way.
 
A well-built wheel with a decent rim is better than a poorly-built wheel with a bomb-proof rim. Rim weakness really isn't a problem here that needs to be solved. Especially by paying more money.

Of the wheels that I have built, I have NEVER had a single one come anywhere near failure and all my bikes go 40+ mph now. They have also been built with only Alex Rims double wall rims. I have a hard time beating the price point of these rims and have absolutely 0 doubts in their strength. They will handle all that I will ever think of throwing at them. So, since they met the mark of 'better than good enough' and are affordable, I only use Alex Rims.
 
The angle of the nipple to match the spoke is a must. Angle drilling the nipple holes in the rim and using proper nipple washers, perfect alignment of nipple and spoke can be achieved and should. If we want to drive a bicycle rim like a motorcycle rim, all parts and steps of the wheel building need to be optimal and maintained so.
 
Yup looking at my Crystalyte rim (from Justin) laced (13G/14G from Justin) to my MXUS 3k v2 motor the nipples are aligned perfectly.

I think that rim (The Sun Ryhno Lite) with its nipple eyelets is the problem then. Interesting, very interesting.

I wouldnt then suggest buying the Sun Rhyno Lite rim.

If anyone can suggest a good rim that has a good nipple alignment on a 1X lace pattern that is of half decent price, then lay it on me. I bought that Sun Rhyno Lite from Chain Reaction in the UK or Ireland.

This Sun Ringle MTX 31 has the same ERD, and is $42 http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ca/en/sun-ringle-mtx-31-welded-mtb-rim/rp-prod26290

I hope Niagara sells the same, need cruiser handle bars. Looks like they sell some Alex rims.
Looking at the
Alex DC19 - 3 posts of search Double wall, ???Eyelets???<--Yes "Pin Joint" - 26″, 559X16, 470g, ERD: 539.1mm
TECHNOLOGY

29″, 622X16, 530g, ERD: 599.7mm
26″, 559X16, 470g, ERD: 539.1mm
Pin Joint
Silver, Black / Indicator
Option: CSW



Alex DH19 - 2 pages of search - Link, is for Alex website DH19 Double wall, nipple eyelets, TECHNOLOGY

29″, 622X18, 580g, ERD: 599.8mm
26″, 559X18, 520g, ERD: 537.8mm
Pin Joint
Silver, Black / Indicator
Option: CSW / SSE

**So the question remains, do I go ahead and buy both the eyelet rims and hope the nipple is allowed to rotate to be inline with spoke.
 
In order to align the nipples with the spokes, you will have to drill the nipple holes at an angle. Eyelets are a nuisance, unless the motor is very small and laced in a large diameter wheel. A Rhino lite is, well, too lite... and too narrow. I like rims 45 mm wide at least, and stiff alloy.

The only rims that are commonly ready made to fit the nipples at an angle, are moped or motorcycle rims. Yet they are heavy, and fitting heavy tires too. That is a lot of weight penalty, to save the building and maintenance work of a good bicycle wheel.
 
Drill out the nipple eyelets then.
Drill them out at an angle that corresponds to the lacing pattern.

Makes sense, Crystalyte rim has no eyelets.
 
wesnewell said:
You couldn't pay me to use any of those rims on an ebike. They are all too narrow. Even the 25mm ones.

Yeah those DC and DH19 are far too narrow then. Atleast 25mm then I need to look for.
Weinman DM30 looks good - http://www.weinmanntek.com/Products/FREESTYLE/DM30.htm
^^Though DM30 has a flatter double wall, not sure if thats good or what.

Weinman ZAC 19 also looks good http://www.weinmanntek.com/Products/TREKKING/ZAC19.htm

$23 each, not bad...have eyelets
 
markz said:
wesnewell said:
You couldn't pay me to use any of those rims on an ebike. They are all too narrow. Even the 25mm ones.

Yeah those DC and DH19 are far too narrow then. Atleast 25mm then I need to look for.
Weinman DM30 looks good - http://www.weinmanntek.com/Products/FREESTYLE/DM30.htm
^^Though DM30 has a flatter double wall, not sure if thats good or what.

Weinman ZAC 19 also looks good http://www.weinmanntek.com/Products/TREKKING/ZAC19.htm

$23 each, not bad...have eyelets

If you drill out the eyelets, you'll have to use 4mm washers to back up the rims, and that might in turn require you to drill out the holes in the rim inner wall to allow the washers to pass through. The best thing is to keep the eyelets, use 14ga or 14-15ga spokes, and make sure you're leaving the spokes to the correct side of the rim. Most rim holes are tilted to one side or the other. Don't cross the spokes more than once for a hub motor, and consider using an interrupted hole pattern in the hub flange to reduce the angle at which the sole approaches the rim.

None of these rims are too narrow for 2.0" tires. The ones that are in the 18-19mm inside width range are not ideal for a 2.3" tire. The Weinmann Zac 19 is among these, about the same size as the Alex Rims you mentioned.

A rim in the 24-25mm inside width range, like Weinmann DM30, Velocity Cliffhanger, Alex DM24, or Sun Rhyno Lite XL would be traditional for a tire up to 2.5" or so. While you can use an even wider rim, it isn't necessary.

The wider the rim is, the more likely it is to have a relatively flat section, to moderate weight. That's not a bad thing, because making a rim wider does make it stronger too.
 
About 5 years ago I bought 2 front wheels with Weinmann DH-39 rims from Niagara. Used one on front. Stripped the other off and laced my motor into it. It did not have eyelets, so took a bit and reamed the nipple holes out at an angle to motor spoke hole. About 20-30 degrees iirc. This made for an easy spoke installation and tensioned with the nipples straight. In about 20K miles I've broken 1 spoke, and it broke at the bend at the motor. The Alex DX-32 is basically the same design. 32mm inside width and 39mm outside. Either will work well with tires from ~1.95 to 3.0"
 
Yeah I made the mistake a few times of the nipple holes going to the wrong side of the motor flange. I always do a 1X pattern.

Wheelmaster Steel 004A 26x1.75 36H 14G for $8 - Cheap spare, ERD of 559mm, for a low power setup.
Weinmann Dm30 Rim, 26 x 2.00, 36 Hole, Silver for $24 - Good backup rim ERD 559mm
Current Ryhno Lite will look at angle drilling and using washers.
Time to unlace ^that rim. I shall take a few pictures of the nipple alignment to spoke.
 
With good quality spokes, you could make a ridable wheel out of a plastic Hula-hoop. While it may seem that the rim is the most important part of a strong wheel, the spokes are far more important to a wheel's overall strength.

Start with Sapim brand 14g , or 13/14 single butted spokes. Here's a source: http://www.wheelbuilder.com/

After that, virtually any name brand DH style rim will survive highway speeds and X-games/Redbull Rampage style abuse, if put together correctly. I wouldn't use anything skinnier than 25mm on an Ebike for your tire size, and larger would be better. A welded rim is better than a pinned, but with a proper wheel build, there isn't much difference. I'm a big fan of Sun MTX 33 rims. Sun Rhyno's are not bad, as with Alex and Velocity brand rims. Weinmann build a fair quality budget rim I've used before
 
https://www.danscomp.com/bmx/Parts/Spokes%20and%20Nipples/
180mm is the smallest on their website, but from my searches, ya gotta call 'em 'n see

I was going to those rims from Niagara but they wanted $100 for s/h
So I am back to Chain Reaction Cycle, for some other stuff. Great deals on the website.
Waiting on no name spokes to come, then deal with drilling my Rhyno Lite nipple holes.
Its a decent rim, though a very shallow double wall. Ideally would like a deeper area for the nipples.
I am using a 2.4 tire on it. With the 27.4mm wide OD its still a good rim IMO. Would want a little more then 22mm ID next rim though.
Sun Ryhno Lite.jpg
 
Alu alloy is not good for spokes, even worse for nipples. Spokes must be SS and nipples brass, if you want to build the best. 14 ga is common and can be found locally.

While it is true that you can build a good wheel with a light rim, it will be easy to dent and it will flex laterally much easier than a strong rim in the 650-750g weight range. Wider also has stronger lateral stiffness, and gives the tire a better grip. Trial and unicycle rims are very stiff, and usually around 45mm wide. When you speed off road (or bad streets), paying the extra $ for a strong rim is a good investment.
 
Just dropped $55cad on Sapim 13/14 and about 4 hours lacing (boiled Linseed Oil) and truing, right down to quarter turns. Now I am not sure I want to sell the kit, but I should.

One thing is I wouldnt suggest the Sun Ringle Rhyno Lite rim, the double wall is too shallow. I think it needs to be deeper. With that rim I really dunno if the holes themselves are angled to match the offset (left flange & right flange) but I think my problems arouse from the simple fact I got some cheap $15 no name brand spokes, three times.

Strong Wheel is 13G-14G double butted Sapim Spokes, Sapim Nipples. Laced correctly.
The smaller the diameter the stronger it would be, no doubt about that. With my fat ass, I will go 24" with setups I want to keep, like the MXUS 5K.
 
Chalo said:
Alex DM24
stronger

What do you think of
Weinmann "Ezee" from Grintech with no eyelets
I remember reading a post long ago that you wrote stating Weinmann can have a bulge at pin/weld joint.
vs
Alex DM24 with eyelets
The thing with eyelets is the nipple cant angle much like with non eyelet rims. I remember clearly buying a Sun Rhyno Lite with eyelets and have that problem.

What I have on hand are 12 guage spokes but I will order some 14g or 13g or double butted 13/14.


ok found it
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89661&p=1307366&hilit=weinmann+joint#p1307366
Weinmann make some of the iffiest rim joints in the industry. It's just the tradeoff for them being cheap and pervasive. I rarely get one that builds up without a bump at the seam. That grosses me out, so I usually turn up the tension on the spokes at the joint and let it out a bit on either side.

OK frock it Im buying the DM24 with eyelets
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=45814&p=668263&hilit=drill+eyelets#p668263
 
For my own bike, I would pick the Alex DM24 over the Weinmann equivalent (DM30) every time. It's not that the Weinmann rim is necessarily bad; it's that the Alex is so good. DM24 is not listed with any of my wholesalers anymore, so I have to find another favorite. At least I have a pair of 36h socked away, and 48h ones are still available from pedicab.com the last time I checked.

Weinmann rims seem to vary a lot between models and batches. Like all the DHL65 rims I've built have had totally acceptable joints, but most of the DHL42s kind of sucked and none of the DHL80s built up worth a damn.

The DM30 is a rim I've built up in multiple diameters and spoke counts, and most of them have been okay.
 
Chalo said:

48H is much stronger then 36H might be an option for mid drive setup, just cant lace no motor into the rim later on.
I was doing my usual baseball diamond driftng today and pancaked my old wheel from an old bike on my dd mid drive.
Will be sore tomorrow.

For the ultimate strongest wheel, perhaps a 48H laced into the opposite side on a strong rim.
 
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