Which kit to fit to a touring bike?

Hello!

I'm a complete newbie so please forgive my ignorance to the world of e-bike I'll just try and explain my situation and what I'm looking for in the hope that someone might have some useful advice... :?

I currently own a Dawes Galaxy touring bike, used for generally getting around within a few mile radius. I have done a few longer tours (60-90 miles per day/2-6 days) on it and used to commute to work a few times a week however due to injury, it's been a little while.

Injury now healing, I would like to get out and ride more, however my work commute is just that bit too long and hilly to do everyday, especially out of practice.

I'm looking to fit a kit to assist my daily commute and for primarily hill help on longer distance tours. The trip to work and back is about 20 miles with a few burning climbs (~10% so not actually that bad). Assistance would be mostly on the hills but also generally just to speed up the journey.

Since I would still like to do a lot of my flat cycling without assistance I'm hoping to get something quite lightweight. Budget is negotiable, but probably no more than about £500, I'm fairly frugal so always prefer a cheaper deal.

I'm edging toward hub motor over mid-drive since it seems to fit my requirements (moderate hills and limited assistance) and from what I understand mid-drive is not a common retrofit. That is my take on it using very little knowledge on the subject though so please do say if you disagree.

I've looked at the Dillenger 250w 10Ah - this seems fairly good though a little on the heavy side and top end of ideal budget. I've also seen a few chinese knock-offs but this seems like a bad idea... :|

I'm an engineer by profession so fairly mechanically minded and should be able to fit and wire up the kit myself.

Please can anyone offer advice on whether they think this is a good way to go, or any other/better suggestions?

Many thanks in advance!

99% of all hub motor kits come from China, no matter how they are marketed. Although I'd never use a geared hub motor, it sounds like it will work for you.

If you want to stay UK legal, use something like a Q100 front hub for simplicity and minimum weight, or a BBS01 to make the most of your modest power allowance.

TwoWheeling said:

I've looked at the Dillenger 250w 10Ah - this seems fairly good though a little on the heavy side and top end of ideal budget. I've also seen a few chinese knock-offs but this seems like a bad idea... :|

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The Dillenger stuff is just yet more rebranded Chinese stuff. Except for a handful of EU and USA companies, all of the hubmotors (and middrives for that matter) are all Chinese-made and designed. (though many of the Chinese ones are knockoffs of each other).

Most of the batteries are, too.

Closer to home Pedelecs forum in England/U.K.

Q100's still aren't legal here as 350w, but their small size won't draw attention.
Equally I have a Q128C 201rpm 500W coupled with a 20a KT controller kit from PSWPower and it has very good power and is virtually silent with the sine wave KT. Holds18.5 - 19.5 mph on flat terrain occasionally 21/22 on a calm day. The size/diameter doesn't draw attention as a cassatte and disc rotor mask them fairly well. For prying eyes remove the 350/500w labelling and fit a nice ali stamped plate with maker name, hub serial and 250w rating.
Mid drive regularly used over here, BBS01/02 & hd, GSM from Woosh and Tongsheng tsd2 as well.
New light weight hub motor kit also available now from Xiongda at < 2kg.

Best results from a low power motor come from using a mid drive. But since you don't mention anything all that severe you need to do, a smaller geared rear hub motor may be a good choice for you. 250w is the limit, but I bet you can get away with 500w peak watts, provided you don't ride like a jerk.

I only recommend a front hub when other things make it mandatory, like an internal gear rear hub, or no brakes on the bike except a rear coaster brake.

hemo said:

....Q100's still aren't legal here as 350w, but their small size won't draw attention.
.... For prying eyes remove the 350/500w labelling and fit a nice ali stamped plate with maker name, hub serial and 250w rating. ....

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I had to go back and look but my Banfang SWXU (from BMS Battery) has an engraved marking for 250 watts at 36 Volts.
OH ... it also relative small and light weight (1.9Kg = 4.2 pounds). I have no clue what the second number is ....

Reference:https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/602-36v250w-swxu-front-drive-v-brake-hub-motor-ebike-kit.html

Second No is for wheel 26" year manufactured 2015 Feb and hub serial no. The 6 on the end probably donates to the factory.

The Q128c only has a label with 500w on it so easy to remove and attach a neat ali adhesive plate.

hemo said:

Second No is for wheel 26" year manufactured 2015 Feb and hub serial no. The 6 on the end probably donates to the factory.

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Thank thee
I was guessing the interspacial coordinates for a distant planet.

dogman dan said:

I only recommend a front hub when other things make it mandatory, like an internal gear rear hub, or no brakes on the bike except a rear coaster brake.

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I can't think of any disadvantage to a front hub motor at UK legal power levels. It is easier to install and results in better rear wheel integrity and better weight distribution.

Plus one for the Q128c and a KT sine wave controller. That's what I have now. I've built and converted loadsof bikes. I think this combination at 48v is very hard to beat. It has power, smothness and is totally silent. If your gears arefree-hub get the Q128C, if they're free-wheel, get the Q128H. These motors are the same size and shspe as any typical 250w motor. Take the easy-peal label off and nobody would know the difference. You need the 36v 201 rpm version and run it at 48v to get speeds in the mid 20s (mph). If you're adamant that you won't go over the legal 15.5 mph, then get the 48v 201 rpm version.

Wonder how the UK laws would view a 2wd Q100 setup :lol:
I still don't get this paranoia with being legal in Europe.
Europeans must be a bunch of law abiding citizens. No littering, No spitting, Always courteous, No road rage.

Thanks for the responses everyone, I did also post on pedelecs UK as hemo suggested.

I think I'm slowly narrowing down, I like the sound of the Q100/Q128. Not sure of the difference between the two? Would I be getting a lot of benefit for the extra 1kg in weight? I'm not super fussed about being entirely legal as long as it's subtle, and there are no other drawbacks.

Also can only see Q128c available for rear, is that the case? I think (and others have said) with a touring set up I'm better off with a front hub if I'm going to use rear panniers.

I'm also interested in the Pando Pro and Xiongda, but struggling to find any information about the latter, i.e. where/how to purchase. I'm around 65kg so shouldn't need too much power up the hills so this lightweight option may work.

We all have our preferences,, after more than 10,000 miles riding front hub, I much prefer a rear now. Mostly so I can curb hop easy when I choose to.

If he does limit to 250w, it won't be like he gets a ton of wheel slip starting out.

I may be the only guy on earth that rode nearly 50 mph on a race track, with a front hub. I took front hub about as far as it goes. But now I still prefer a rear. But if you have a reason to choose front hub, go for it.

Dogman has a valid point: We all have our preference for various reasons. I am another of those oddballs that likes a front hub. I am simple minded and prefer a simple IGH in the rear which eliminates the option of a rear hub motor. One other thing that I like about the Bafang WXSU motor is that the cable exits through the face of the hub as opposed to a cable that exits through the end of the axle like the Q100/Q128.

I am currently finishing up a build that violates all the rules for front hubs: 52-58 volts through a heavy Golden Motor smart pie hub on a cheap suspension fork ... but I already had the motor. I should have at least chosen a lower voltage battery. I will have to keep a close eye on the fork dropouts.

LewTwo said:

I am currently finishing up a build that violates all the rules for front hubs: 52-58 volts through a heavy Golden Motor smart pie hub on a cheap suspension fork ... but I already had the motor. I should have at least chosen a lower voltage battery. I will have to keep a close eye on the fork dropouts.

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Sounds like a bad idea - hopefully you have 2 torque arms up front?

titusmc said:

Sounds like a bad idea - hopefully you have 2 torque arms up front?

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Yep .. one piece ones bolted to the fender eyelets of the fork.

dogman dan said:

We all have our preferences,, after more than 10,000 miles riding front hub, I much prefer a rear now. Mostly so I can curb hop easy when I choose to.

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Haha, my first hub motor bike had a 22+ pounds front X5305. No problems curb hopping, but that's probably because when a normal length bike gets very tall, it wants to wheelie because of the rear bias.

I used a front hub because the rear X5 in those days didn't have offset flanges, and it couldn't be built up with the rim on center and any tension at all in the left side spokes. That's related to why I still favor front hub motors for low power builds-- a normal bicycle hub almost always makes a stronger and less troublesome rear wheel. The front wheel is rarely a problem in any case.

TwoWheeling said:

I'm also interested in the Pando Pro and Xiongda, but struggling to find any information about the latter, i.e. where/how to purchase. I'm around 65kg so shouldn't need too much power up the hills so this lightweight option may work.

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I've been using a Xiongda 2-speed for the last three years and done about 5000 miles. They're very good motors if you're heavy, but at only 65kg, you'll never need to use the low gear, so you won't get any advantage from one. They have the disadvantage of being a bit wider than most motors, which makes installation a bit more complicated. If I were you, I'd stick with a Q100 or Q128.

How about kepler https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=86961
It's diy know your options . May be a little noisy. But I would go for a geared rear motor 48v.
Don't get a cheap Chinese no name battery. Buy a battery with good quality named cells inside.

LewTwo said:

I am currently finishing up a build that violates all the rules for front hubs: 52-58 volts through a heavy Golden Motor smart pie hub on a cheap suspension fork ... but I already had the motor. I should have at least chosen a lower voltage battery. I will have to keep a close eye on the fork dropouts.

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I've done it and got the T-shirt. It was great with twin well-anchored torque arms. after about 20 miles, I needed to change the tyre to get more grip, but when I removed the wheel, the fronts of both drop-outs were detached. the torque arms and nuts were holding everything in place. I guess it would only have taken a big bump and the axle would have been out. I can only give you advice. if you want to stick a big heavy and powerful motor in the front, get some steel forks. Aluminium is OK for a SWXU or similar, but not for much more than that. You can get used steel suspension forks from Ebay for next to nothing, but in most cases they're not listed as steel. You have to study the pictures to see whether the drop-outs are just a flat welded steel plate. Zoom forks are often steel.

d8veh said:

LewTwo said:

I am currently finishing up a build that violates all the rules for front hubs: 52-58 volts through a heavy Golden Motor smart pie hub on a cheap suspension fork ... but I already had the motor. I should have at least chosen a lower voltage battery. I will have to keep a close eye on the fork dropouts.

Click to expand...

I've done it and got the T-shirt. It was great with twin well-anchored torque arms. after about 20 miles, I needed to change the tyre to get more grip, but when I removed the wheel, the fronts of both drop-outs were detached. the torque arms and nuts were holding everything in place. I guess it would only have taken a big bump and the axle would have been out. I can only give you advice. if you want to stick a big heavy and powerful motor in the front, get some steel forks. Aluminium is OK for a SWXU or similar, but not for much more than that. You can get used steel suspension forks from Ebay for next to nothing, but in most cases they're not listed as steel. You have to study the pictures to see whether the drop-outs are just a flat welded steel plate. Zoom forks are often steel.

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I have about 50 miles on it now and thus far no cracks (knocking on my wooden head). I probably have a rigid steel fork I could stick in it but this one came on the bike. I had never ridden a bike with a suspension fork and wanted to try it.

Given the choice between having dropouts peel off a bike at speed with a front hub motor and spending $125.00 or so on a pair of beefy Surly steel forks I'm going to guess the forks would be cheaper that the resulting hospital bills. I have a Big Dummy fork on one of my bikes, I wouldn't hesitate to mount a hub motor on those.

Back in the 1960's there was a whole segment of the US population that would not drive or ride in one them little VW's. Those little bitty foreign cars could just not be safe. They wanted big heavy detroit iron wrapped around them. Most of that heavy detroit iron is no longer manufactured.