hub drive vs mid drive

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
markz   100 GW

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Re: hub drive vs mid drive

Post by markz » Jul 24 2017 6:04pm

Should be considered dangerous driving.

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Izits   100 W

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Re: hub drive vs mid drive

Post by Izits » Aug 06 2017 3:23pm

tomjasz wrote:
slacker wrote:do not waste time arguing with chalo, he is the poster boy for abortion. His parents must be proud.
A shame you can't accept facts.

"Past NSC research has indicated that alcohol, speed and distracted driving are the three major causes of fatalities on the road, contributing to 30.8, 30 and 26 percent of motor-vehicle deaths respectively."
So booze only leads speed by 0.8 percentage points. Fact before attacks, please.
Actually, these probably aren't facts at all. First of all, they're not independent numbers, they're overlapping numbers. But more importantly, you're not quoting the National Safety Council. You're quoting a Newsweek article and they in turn are likely misquoting the NSC research. We don't know exactly because the report your numbers are based on is not a free publication. However the NSC does have a statistical highlight report and in that report they are clear to say that alcohol, speeding and distracted driving are factors in fatal accidents, not causes. And really all that means is that the driver was traveling over the completely arbitrary speed limit at the time of the accident. It does not necessarily mean that someone determined that if the driver had been going slower the accident would not have occurred.

A lot of people will say we can reduce accidents by driving slower. The problem with this is saying that we can reduce accidents by driving slower is exactly the same as saying we could reduce accidents by driving fewer miles. Driving half as many miles is half way to not driving at all. Driving half as fast is also half way to not driving at all. So it's a meaningless claim.

The liberal media programs us to never blame the government for anything, but the truth is the road network itself is as much responsible for the fatality rate as anything else. I would argue it is 100% responsible for the fatality rate because it takes away all other options and forces us to use the government system.

When you have a public resource like a sidewalk or a road, there is a never ending conflict about what laws shall apply to everyone on that shared resource. No one gets to do things their way, everyone has to do the same thing. But when the resources are privatized, all these problems go away. Suddenly there are different roads with different rules and everyone is free to choose what rules they would like to drive or live under. The solution to how much accident rate we should tolerate is to have privately run roads instead of government mismanaged roads. Now you may choose a slow, safe road or a fast and dangerous one. You may choose a road that allows teen drivers, or one that only allows qualified, vetted drivers. You may choose expensive, safe sidewalks or cheap ones near the teens and the drunks. A free market that gives people the freedom of choice eliminates the need to debate what to force everyone to do.

References:
Newsweek article:
http://www.newsweek.com/2015-brought-bi ... ars-427759

NSC Injury Facts Statistical Highlights:
http://www.nsc.org/SafeCommunitiesDocum ... Kolosh.pdf
The only enemy of the electric bicycle community is the government. Think about it. Who bans or restricts your use of electric bikes, other than the government? Smaller Government = More Freedom.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: hub drive vs mid drive

Post by Chalo » Aug 06 2017 5:11pm

Your suppositions are so faulty that they fail to even try to be true. You seem to think that just because you wish something to be so that it must be so.

Given that a transportation must link discrete physical spaces, how do you purport to have multiple competing systems serving the same places but each having different rules of operation?

I have a proposal: allocate each dimension above three to a separate road system operator. You can be in charge of roads in the seventeenth dimension. The seventeenth dimension can be a libertarian dreamworld. Might as well start staking your claim now.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: hub drive vs mid drive

Post by LewTwo » Aug 06 2017 8:48pm

It is a problem of bandwidth. More people means less roadway per individual. Same problem on the the internet. Now what the internet has shown us is that faster traffic is the solution. Drive twice as fast and you can get off the road in half the time. Drive four times as fast and ...
The more I learn the more obvious the immensity of my ignorance becomes.
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Re: hub drive vs mid drive

Post by DRMousseau » Aug 06 2017 9:31pm

LewTwo wrote:It is a problem of bandwidth. More people means less roadway per individual. Same problem on the the internet. Now what the internet has shown us is that faster traffic is the solution. Drive twice as fast and you can get off the road in half the time. Drive four times as fast and ...
Hahahah,.... the "information highway" has shown us nothing any different. Regardless of speed, folks ain't EVER gonna be satisfied!!!

"It's jus a "safe" speed limit,... the roads are made for faster speeds!"
"Slower traffic shouldn't even be ON or even NEAR the road!"
"Never get behind someone, if you can get in front of them!"
"The only "safe" distance to maintain in front of you, is one that no other can occupy!"

There would be absolutely no problem in any way,.... if there were no one on the road in any way!!!
WHAT??? You mean it NOT the road? the size? the speed? the vehicle? the space?
It's,.... it's, PEOPLE????

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Re: hub drive vs mid drive

Post by Ykick » Aug 07 2017 9:44am

Surely the last dozen or so posts will help OP decide which drive system to adopt....???































































































































(BOFEA)
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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: hub drive vs mid drive

Post by Chalo » Aug 07 2017 12:24pm

Ykick wrote:Surely the last dozen or so posts will help OP decide which drive system to adopt....???)
Izits only has the one topic. So you'll see it pop up in almost any discussion.
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Izits   100 W

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Re: hub drive vs mid drive

Post by Izits » Aug 07 2017 9:24pm

Chalo wrote:
Ykick wrote:Surely the last dozen or so posts will help OP decide which drive system to adopt....???)
Izits only has the one topic. So you'll see it pop up in almost any discussion.
It just looks that way to you because I stick to contributing facts and logic instead of making up gibberish about the "seventeenth dimension" like you just did.
The only enemy of the electric bicycle community is the government. Think about it. Who bans or restricts your use of electric bikes, other than the government? Smaller Government = More Freedom.

markz   100 GW

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Re: hub drive vs mid drive

Post by markz » Aug 07 2017 11:03pm

Mid Drive Options

Bafang BBS02/BBHD
*Cyclone basically the same as GNG
Cyclone 1500W
Cyclone 3kw - This is the one I am buying I think! Gotta carry 375lb rider, plus 30Ah battery 18650 1.6Ah cans. Hills!
Cyclone 4kw - Too powerful for bicycles
Cyclone 7.5kw - Too powerful for bicycles
Lightning Rods
AFT
EGO
ECO
MXUS
Might be more RC choices too

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Re: hub drive vs mid drive

Post by zackclark70 » Aug 07 2017 11:58pm

markz wrote:Mid Drive Options

Bafang BBS02/BBHD
*Cyclone basically the same as GNG
Cyclone 1500W
Cyclone 3kw - This is the one I am buying I think! Gotta carry 375lb rider, plus 30Ah battery 18650 1.6Ah cans. Hills!
Cyclone 4kw - Too powerful for bicycles
Cyclone 7.5kw - Too powerful for bicycles
Lightning Rods
AFT
EGO
ECO
MXUS
Might be more RC choices too
there is a few other options but those are mostly way over powered or way under powered ( legal ) once you get to the 75kg bike + rider might aswell convert a 125cc and go 11.5kw and have all the power you need or like me build a 30/60kw with plans to go to 60/120kw

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Re: hub drive vs mid drive

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Aug 08 2017 12:05am

Regarding the Bosch Performance system the OP was considering purchasing......who's ridden one? My LBS sells cycles with Bosch systems although I have never test ridden one because I don't feel like putting wear and tear on one of their brand new bikes. Although I should go ahead and ask to test one out, I'm on a first name basis with all the mechanics and have let them test ride my Bafang mid-drives, which they like but they tell me the cadence sensor on the Bosch systems are on a whole other level.
Yuba Mundo w/BBSHD
Specialized Hard Rock w/9c clone, statoraid, hubsink
Trek Fuel 90 w/BBSHD
Above all run on 14s4p 52v li-ion
Ecobike folder 36v
Currie Flyer scooter 24v on 24ah of SLA

Every trip made with electric bike is one less car trip, saves money, no toxic fumes, less noise, less impact on roads.

markz   100 GW

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Re: hub drive vs mid drive

Post by markz » Aug 08 2017 12:35am

zackclark70 wrote:there is a few other options but those are mostly way over powered or way under powered ( legal ) once you get to the 75kg bike + rider might aswell convert a 125cc and go 11.5kw and have all the power you need or like me build a 30/60kw with plans to go to 60/120kw
1.5kw is fine for a bicycle, 3kw is good too. You cant ride a cc anything in a park, on a pathway, take it on a train, on a bus, ride it on a sidewalk, walk it through a mall, ride it off the road in a National Park, cant wizz by people on a trail. I will go with the 3kw Cyclone, I wont use all that power because it will eat away the bicycles drive train. But when I hit a hill, thats when the power is needed with gear changes in preparation for the climb.

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Re: hub drive vs mid drive

Post by zackclark70 » Aug 08 2017 2:40am

markz wrote:
zackclark70 wrote:there is a few other options but those are mostly way over powered or way under powered ( legal ) once you get to the 75kg bike + rider might aswell convert a 125cc and go 11.5kw and have all the power you need or like me build a 30/60kw with plans to go to 60/120kw
1.5kw is fine for a bicycle, 3kw is good too. You cant ride a cc anything in a park, on a pathway, take it on a train, on a bus, ride it on a sidewalk, walk it through a mall, ride it off the road in a National Park, cant wizz by people on a trail. I will go with the 3kw Cyclone, I wont use all that power because it will eat away the bicycles drive train. But when I hit a hill, thats when the power is needed with gear changes in preparation for the climb.
i have a test setup thats loaded to 4kw ( higher rpm ) its been run on and off but its done the same amount of revolutions as it would take to do 1000 miles and the chain still has not hit 0.75 stretch next step i think i will do some testing at 6kw soon but need better cooling / a better motor to use as a generator to test load right now i have 2 cyclone 1680w as the generators with a single test motor on my bikes i have far more issues with tyers and knocks to derailleurs than anything else

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Re: hub drive vs mid drive

Post by DRMousseau » Aug 09 2017 7:53am

huffinandpuffin wrote:I installed a 350W hub drive with 36V,.... It seems to hit it's maximum capacity on any grade over 5%.

I'm considering the purchase of a Gepida Thoris tandem with Bosch Performance drive,... I assume we'll see better performance and battery life from the Bosch system. Any input? Thanks!
Those grades can really eat it up,... you say "it's max capacity", and I'm thinkin' "yup,.. it probably jus don't do NOTHIN' for 'em on such grade!"
And while doing nothing for ya, it probably jus chews up the battery range 'till it overheats in jus a minute or two and quits completely! UGH!

I'm sure you'll see the "better performance" your lookin' for when tacklin' the same kinda grade with your newly considered choice. Unless that grade is several minutes long, ya probably won't see it dying out much either like ya currently do. Oh those grades will still eat at your battery life, but not quite so much AND you'll actually see a bit of help gettin' up that grade for that loss.

So it'll probably be jus ya what hope for, and make the casual ride for the both of ya much more enjoyable.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: hub drive vs mid drive

Post by Chalo » Aug 09 2017 3:17pm

DRMousseau wrote:
huffinandpuffin wrote:I installed a 350W hub drive with 36V,.... It seems to hit it's maximum capacity on any grade over 5%.
Those grades can really eat it up,... you say "it's max capacity", and I'm thinkin' "yup,.. it probably jus don't do NOTHIN' for 'em on such grade!"
And while doing nothing for ya, it probably jus chews up the battery range 'till it overheats in jus a minute or two and quits completely! UGH!
When you're using motor power equivalent to pedal power, you have to make the most of it in the same way-- gearing down as much as necessary to keep the motor RPM up in an efficient range. If you use the motor poorly, it will work poorly. If you don't have enough gear range for conditions, you can't keep the system working well at the extremes.

Of course, hill climbs are a good time to add pedal power to motor power, if you have legs that work.
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