If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choose?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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Carla Luo   100 µW

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If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choose?

Post by Carla Luo » Jul 25 2017 3:21am

If i need a bike that is 25 kilometers per hour. I want to assemble it for myself. What kind of mid drive motor should I choose? What kind of battery is suitable? Is anyone the same with me?

mark5   100 kW

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Re: If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choo

Post by mark5 » Jul 25 2017 6:00am

Carla Luo wrote:If i need a bike that is 25 kilometers per hour. I want to assemble it for myself. What kind of mid drive motor should I choose? What kind of battery is suitable? Is anyone the same with me?
Shouldn't you already know the answers? After all, in your LinkedIn profile you say you're the Li-ion battery sales manager at the company you tried to promote in your very first post here.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choo

Post by dogman dan » Jul 25 2017 6:45am

Long as he/she doesn't answer his own questions with links to what he sells....

Keep the selling to the for sale sections, following the rules there, and anybody is welcome here. I understand if there is a learning curve to becoming an active forum member.

Now, if you had joined just to sell Viagra, you'd have gotten the ban hammer instantly.

Thanks Mark, for the always diligent spam patrol. The link in the other thread has been removed.

But as far as SEO goes, she did her job when it posted. :roll: That does not get erased when I deleted the link.

What cracks me up is when they post it multiple times here, because all but the first post is wasted time, doesn't improve the SEO to post the link twice. That's the real reason I don't try to post links to where I work here all the time. It was done back in 2009. The SEO work I do on line is far more effective, and far less offensive that this kind of crude spamming. I could put a link to that site here now, but it was done 3 years ago. :twisted:

Carla Luo   100 µW

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Re: If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choo

Post by Carla Luo » Jul 26 2017 1:30am

Yes, I am a battery sales, the reason I made this problem is because there is a customer who needs to buy batteries and motors, I am a new person, on the motor this thing, I am not professional.
Others recommend this forum for me, I would like to find the answer above this forum,if you can get help I will be very happy。

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choo

Post by spinningmagnets » Jul 26 2017 8:33am

Carla, if the roads your customers are travelling are flat, then a direct drive motor can be cheaper and simpler, it can also run very quiet. For 25 km/h (16-MPH), it is easy. It can be done with 36V battery, a controller that allows 20A, and motor. There are thousands to choose from. Customers like a lower price, and then they complain that the battery and controller are not reliable and they die very soon, because they bought the cheapest kit.

In this situation, even though 36V X 20A = 720W is "adequate", a system that allows 48V X 25A = 1200W will make customers much happier, but of course it would be more expensive.

It is possible to have a lighter kit by using a geared hubmotor. Since the internal gear-set allows the motor to spin 5 times for each turn of the wheel, it is slightly more efficient. This means you can get the same performance from a smaller motor. They have a poor heat-shedding path, so they are not good for steep uphills. The demand for high and constant amps will make the motor and controller hot, and possibly even the battery. There are many choices that can provide 25-km/h.

A mid-mounted motor is usually the best choice for steep uphills. If the motor can use the bikes gears, then it can perform adequately in the lowest gear using 36V and 20A, like the BBS01 system. The BBS02 uses 48V and 25A, so it has more power, but the battery is more expensive.

For most people on flat land who need 25-km/h, they will choose a geared hubmotor and a 36V battery that can provide 20A. In this user-profile the Cute 100H and the Bafang SWXH seem to be popular, but...there are many other acceptable choices.

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choo

Post by 999zip999 » Jul 26 2017 10:36am

All that being said the heart of an electric bike is the battery I mean a battery made with decent quality cells that can be verified Samsung 25r, LG, Sony ect. Not some generic junk or rewrap cells. Or junk bms as battery murdering system.

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wesnewell   100 GW

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Re: If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choo

Post by wesnewell » Jul 26 2017 11:20am

Choosing a battery is real simple. It needs to be able to output the the max amp draw of whatever it connects to, preferably without putting a lot of stress on it if you want it to last. I'd suggest a very minimum of at least twice max amp draw of what you connect it to. In this case, that will be the motor controller. So if you have a 20A controller, that would mean a battery pack rated for a 40A max. And the more it's rated for the better, It can never be rated for too much. The higher the rating, the longer it should last, and will have a lot less voltage sag under load.
Need Advice? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=66302
Mongoose 26" Ledge 2.1 mtb bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $200, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $217=~43mph, range=45 miles @ 20mph. 25K miles and still going strong.
Huffy Fortress 3.0 with MXUS 3000 4T motor, 24s lipo, 96V 60A controller. Total cost with extras <$700. Top speed ~50mph
My videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0KW4U ... _G2wQhptMg

Carla Luo   100 µW

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Re: If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choo

Post by Carla Luo » Jul 26 2017 8:25pm

spinningmagnets wrote:Carla, if the roads your customers are travelling are flat, then a direct drive motor can be cheaper and simpler, it can also run very quiet. For 25 km/h (16-MPH), it is easy. It can be done with 36V battery, a controller that allows 20A, and motor. There are thousands to choose from. Customers like a lower price, and then they complain that the battery and controller are not reliable and they die very soon, because they bought the cheapest kit.

In this situation, even though 36V X 20A = 720W is "adequate", a system that allows 48V X 25A = 1200W will make customers much happier, but of course it would be more expensive.

It is possible to have a lighter kit by using a geared hubmotor. Since the internal gear-set allows the motor to spin 5 times for each turn of the wheel, it is slightly more efficient. This means you can get the same performance from a smaller motor. They have a poor heat-shedding path, so they are not good for steep uphills. The demand for high and constant amps will make the motor and controller hot, and possibly even the battery. There are many choices that can provide 25-km/h.

A mid-mounted motor is usually the best choice for steep uphills. If the motor can use the bikes gears, then it can perform adequately in the lowest gear using 36V and 20A, like the BBS01 system. The BBS02 uses 48V and 25A, so it has more power, but the battery is more expensive.

For most people on flat land who need 25-km/h, they will choose a geared hubmotor and a 36V battery that can provide 20A. In this user-profile the Cute 100H and the Bafang SWXH seem to be popular, but...there are many other acceptable choices.
Thank you for your professional answers,This is useful to me, I will always be concerned about you, I think I will learn more.

Carla Luo   100 µW

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Re: If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choo

Post by Carla Luo » Jul 27 2017 4:11am

999zip999 wrote:All that being said the heart of an electric bike is the battery I mean a battery made with decent quality cells that can be verified Samsung 25r, LG, Sony ect. Not some generic junk or rewrap cells. Or junk bms as battery murdering system.
yes, I agree with you, i also think a good quality bicycle is the most important.

Although I am not professional, as a electric bike, I think that all of their components together is a whole, less one is not perfect, but the most important thing is to have a mutual cooperation between components in order to make the car has a very good protection.

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Kneelb4ZOD   1 W

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Re: If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choo

Post by Kneelb4ZOD » Jul 27 2017 7:14am

999zip999 wrote:All that being said the heart of an electric bike is the battery I mean a battery made with decent quality cells that can be verified Samsung 25r, LG, Sony ect. Not some generic junk or rewrap cells. Or junk bms as battery murdering system.
Seems a bit pointed given the context of this thread, haha. You can find decent generic cells that work perfectly fine and offer a better value in certain applications, the problem is when you purchase them from a platform like ebay where people try to resell garbage cells as something they aren't. Sellers on ebay know that most people will buy the highest number they can find for the lowest price. If they listed their 800mAh junk cell as 800mAh, they wouldn't be able to give them away, but if they say it's 4000mAh plenty of people are willing to take the bait for a couple bucks, and most won't have the equipment or experience to know the difference when it goes inside a flashlight.

Something to keep in mind is Chinese cells have a huge range of performance and types. There isn't only 1 company making 1 type of Chinese battery. When buying something like an assembled battery pack for a moped or bike, the difference between a good generic battery and LG at 2600mAh is only going to be about 10-20%, but the price could be significantly cheaper. Plenty of people would rather spend the same amount of money to extend their range 50%, rather than get a battery with slightly better voltage drop characteristics.

Also, most Chinese manufacturers and trading companies who build or source battery packs buy both Chinese and Korean/Japanese cells to give their customers more options to choose from. I'm assuming Carla is working for a trading company and not an actual manufacturer, since most manufacturers would not bother to get an export license or deal with small foreign customers. As long as they are honest about the products they are selling, more choice is always best for the customer.
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Carla Luo   100 µW

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Re: If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choo

Post by Carla Luo » Jul 27 2017 10:32pm

Kneelb4ZOD wrote:
999zip999 wrote:All that being said the heart of an electric bike is the battery I mean a battery made with decent quality cells that can be verified Samsung 25r, LG, Sony ect. Not some generic junk or rewrap cells. Or junk bms as battery murdering system.
Seems a bit pointed given the context of this thread, haha. You can find decent generic cells that work perfectly fine and offer a better value in certain applications, the problem is when you purchase them from a platform like ebay where people try to resell garbage cells as something they aren't. Sellers on ebay know that most people will buy the highest number they can find for the lowest price. If they listed their 800mAh junk cell as 800mAh, they wouldn't be able to give them away, but if they say it's 4000mAh plenty of people are willing to take the bait for a couple bucks, and most won't have the equipment or experience to know the difference when it goes inside a flashlight.

Something to keep in mind is Chinese cells have a huge range of performance and types. There isn't only 1 company making 1 type of Chinese battery. When buying something like an assembled battery pack for a moped or bike, the difference between a good generic battery and LG at 2600mAh is only going to be about 10-20%, but the price could be significantly cheaper. Plenty of people would rather spend the same amount of money to extend their range 50%, rather than get a battery with slightly better voltage drop characteristics.

Also, most Chinese manufacturers and trading companies who build or source battery packs buy both Chinese and Korean/Japanese cells to give their customers more options to choose from. I'm assuming Carla is working for a trading company and not an actual manufacturer, since most manufacturers would not bother to get an export license or deal with small foreign customers. As long as they are honest about the products they are selling, more choice is always best for the customer.
Can not deny the domestic battery getting better and better, we do domestic is also useful to do domestic batteries, but do foreign customers we are mostly imported batteries, because these brands of batteries more quality and safety, for the customer The safety of the sake, we try to use only imported batteries, of course, the price will be more expensive than the domestic batteries. But if the customer is very concerned about the price, but also trust our domestic batteries, we can also use domestic batteries to do him

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choo

Post by MadRhino » Jul 27 2017 11:02pm

I use RC Lipo. They don't last long, they are not safe, but I need the power. Round cells would require to build a battery that is way too big and heavy, to supply equal power. Also, I like fast charging, and low resistance RC Lipo can be charged very fast. Fast charging is good for safety, because no one is tempted to leave a battery charging without surveilance when the volt meter is climbing as fast as a fuel gauge. :wink:
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

spiros   10 W

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Re: If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choo

Post by spiros » Jul 28 2017 2:08am

I use both of batteries 18650 and rc lipos and I think that if the 18650 are not build at a really state of art they will not last to long the rc lipos will not last long but you pay less money for them I use 4 multistar 6S 16A from hobbyking and I like fast charging with my ICHARGER 4010DUO under surveillance and I store them into a military box that will not allow oxygen entrance in case of fire

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Kneelb4ZOD   1 W

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Re: If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choo

Post by Kneelb4ZOD » Jul 28 2017 1:48pm

spiros wrote:I use both of batteries 18650 and rc lipos and I think that if the 18650 are not build at a really state of art they will not last to long the rc lipos will not last long but you pay less money for them I use 4 multistar 6S 16A from hobbyking and I like fast charging with my ICHARGER 4010DUO under surveillance and I store them into a military box that will not allow oxygen entrance in case of fire
Storing in a military ammo box is pretty decent. I've mentioned it here before, but for big batteries a really good and cheap method is to store them under a sack of sand. If the battery catches fire, it should melt the thin plastic bag causing sand to spill on top of the battery and extinguish the flames automatically.
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Carla Luo   100 µW

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Re: If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choo

Post by Carla Luo » Aug 01 2017 2:59am

MadRhino wrote:I use RC Lipo. They don't last long, they are not safe, but I need the power. Round cells would require to build a battery that is way too big and heavy, to supply equal power. Also, I like fast charging, and low resistance RC Lipo can be charged very fast. Fast charging is good for safety, because no one is tempted to leave a battery charging without surveilance when the volt meter is climbing as fast as a fuel gauge. :wink:
Lithium iron phosphate is the main drawback in the low temperature environment can not work properly, there are lower voltage than the lithium battery, but he has a lot of advantages, such as the depth of the cycle of performance, safety performance is better, it can be considered battery A big break

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choo

Post by MadRhino » Aug 02 2017 5:26pm

Future of batteries is in the high C rate, both charge and discharge. Lots of work is being done, but it is never coming soon enough for us ebikers. We should have the first sodium metal batteries available in a year or two. They are promising, in density and safety especially, and fast charging should become more common. Hopefully, Li chemistries will be obsolete in a decade.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

heavymetalthunder   100 W

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Re: If you have a electric bike, which battery you will choo

Post by heavymetalthunder » Aug 03 2017 2:27pm

Flying very large RC models, I use 6 cell lipos in airplanes as well as my E-bike. For exclusive E-bike use Li-ion might be a better choice. Lipos have an advantage in that you can more easily carry just the amount of batteries you need, discharge rates are better, I can charge up my Lipos in about an hour because I have higher end chargers (200watt per station) and power supplies, but this comes at a higher price, when charging Lipos nearly all charges will charge and balance the cells. Li-ion has an advantage as the batteries can have greater charge/discharge cycles so they can last longer with out replacement, and it is usually easier to charge your pack as you have only one pack. As many packs are of 18650 cells many chargers cannot balance individual cells. I do have lipos that are over 4 years old.

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