I never had a tire do this before.....

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Nov 27, 2015
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Location
S.E. Idaho USA
rsz_img_20170725_191558985_hdr.jpgOn my 20" folding fat bike I keep in the crane, as a dingy. Too much air pressure? 10.5 lbs was all, and it felt just a bit squishy, can't imagine it was over inflated Cheap tire? Probably. The rim is true, and I have not done any off roading with it. It was fine last time I put it away, about a week earlier. There is another lesser area doing the same thing not shown in the pic. I have no faith in remounting this tire, it's toast I guess?
 
Tire roll-off can occur because the pressure is too low to keep the tire on the rim under hard cornering. Did this happen while you were riding?
 
I got a burr puncture on my fat bike near Zia Pueblo. Was moving pretty quick when the low pressure let the tyre completely depart from, and outside, the rim before I could stop.

I put it down to the flattening /squishing of the side wall combined with a hot day. Made fixing the flat easy..
 
Voltron said:
Has it actually rolled off or is the bead torn from the sidewall right there?

It looks like the bead is still with the casing, but a little damaged from the blow-off.
 
The two times I've had that happen were when the pressure was too low (once from a not-so-slow leak I had to just keep airing up till I got to my destination and I forget the other one), and I was making a turn in the one case and just riding straight in the other. In my case both times the tube was immediately ripped open, so I guess you were luckier than I was. ;)
 
What brand of tyre do you use? Some manufacturers make too loose fitting (too high diameter) beads and combined with a too small diameter rim, the bead is sometimes not seated properly and allows one side to sit too low while the opposite side is allowed too close to outer rim edge, risking a blow like this. To prevent such cases, multiple layers of rim tape, or other material, will help seat the tyre properly. In most cases, 1-2mm extra support is enough of a remedy. I've been doing this for ages to successfully seal ghetto tubeless on various non-UST rims, where tyre bead sat too loose against the rim.
 
Possibly the tire didn't match the rim and was a poor bead seat fit from the start. It is possible too, that the wire bead is broken.

When you first inflate a tire after mounting, you normally see it right away if it doesn't sit properly. Sometimes it is because of tire manufacturing defect. Sometimes because the rim bead seat is a poor design. Sometimes because Chinese seem to have their own measure system like: It is not Imperial, it is not metric, it is Chinese. :mrgreen:
 
Chalo said:
Tire roll-off can occur because the pressure is too low to keep the tire on the rim under hard cornering. Did this happen while you were riding?

I'm not sure... I did notice it while riding (smooth pavement) anyway but it may have passed my notice when I pulled it out the box I keep it in on my crane. I have fun out of making the "taking it out thing" and riding off as quick as possible, less then a minute, so I suppose I don't really pre flight it like I should! I was also distracted by a funny feeling while pedaling, which turn out to be a loose crank. This being only my occasional ride, I guess I don't pay attention to it as much as my 2 other main rides that I really DO pay attention to, as they take me into remote areas.
 
The tire is stock, what came with the bike, don't have it in front of me to tell the brand, and has never been off, it has a tube.

Too low of pressure seems to be the cause, good thing I asked here as I was thinking the opposite, too high! I'll try breaking it down and putting it back together and see if it holds, then a new tire if that doesn't work of course, plus I will pay a bit more attention to it in the future as it freaked me out a bit when I noticed it. I don't have to tell anyone here, I know,(!) but you can get hurt on a bike, and while I really pay attention while craning and flying (doing a lot of both) I still am a bit casual about my bike sometimes, my bad :shock: I need to start treating all 3 of my rides like they could kill me, because they can. The little 20" fattie is especially innocuous, cartoony looking, but it about kicked my ass I'm thinking. Plus, I just rode the eMontague 7 miles across town to a tire shop where I had the crane parked, and when I went to take the front wheel off before folding it I noticed it was loose, and I had been jumping curbs etc. at 20+ mph, not good.
 
What are those two marks on the rim next to where it blew? did somebody give it a bit of abuse to get it on?
 
Maybe it shifted some on the rim, then when it went up, air pressure went down. Same effect as if you were inflating with the tire crooked on the rim. I've kind of wondered how you really kept stuff like this happening constantly, running that low of pressure on fat bikes.
 
I would think it was low tire pressure. If it was too high of pressure the entire bead would have given way and the tube would have burst. check the bread it make sure there are no cracks. Try inflating the tire to 20 lbs. and check that the bead is evenly distributed. Then inflate to normal pressure.
 
I've had that happen with particular tire/rim combinations.
My solution:
...use a different tire manufacturer's product. Worked every time!

I suspect the problem has to do with the offending tire's bead width and actual circumference vs. rims' width, depth and circumference over any other factor. Although inflated tire pressure can play a part I still believe the tire/rim sizing is the actual offender. Strangely enough I had this happen more often with higher inflated tires (>50PSI) than lower inflated tires (<20PSI)
My opinion based on my own flawed observations... IOW YMMV
 
Some tires lock with the rim bead better than other brands of tires and or rims. Does the shoe fit or does it hurt at your little or big toe ?
 
Thinkin this tire is done,... even if ya can remount it, it's gonna be undependable.

Tires have always been an important matter for me, regardless of vehicle. Most critical, difficult and important issues have been those of my "apartment" (34' motorhome), various equipment, and bicycle tires of the larger sizes.

I'm thinkin you might have suffered a number of accumulative issues here. Up to now, you've had no problems, right? Heck, even cheap tires and rims can be serviceable for a while. But neglect maybe, has kinda caught up with ya, even if only a short term kinda neglect.

Low inflation is likely the major primary factor. Recommended inflation of the tire manufacture IS important, and manufactures max pressure IS within a large margin of safety. Unless a pressure range is specified on the sidewall or in tire specs of manufacture, it's usually best to maintain the max pressure stated on the tire. It's pretty specific to intended use and weight load. But I also wonder of some other "secondary" factors that may have contributed to this kind of failure. Usually kept in the crane??? Few understand the effects of heat and sunlight on tires. Both can contribute to "premature aging", and the light construction of bicycle tires are no more immune than the multi-belted tires of my 34' RV. Add a hard ride over anything that may cause a "bruise",... and you'll have a susceptible weakness that may cause a failure. ANY unusual "feel" to the tires is cause for close inspection and careful watch of a developing issue.

Perhaps a "bruise" has caused some broken threads in the sidewall area causing an excessive "stretch" in this area of failure, even with low inflation pressure. Cheap tires often have a coarse tpi of cheaper materials that's particularly susceptible to such. Any excessive heat factor can also affect internal bonds and such that keep it all together. Again, cheap tires may not be vulcanized as well as they should or could be,... manufacturing profit issues and minimal specs, ya know. A lot of minor "unseen" issues can contribute to a failure we assume to be from something major. And perhaps it was nothing more than that low inflation pressure. Inspect it carefully, jus to see or maybe feel for anything seen or unseen that might have caused this. AND, check over the other tire assembly as well,.. jus in case, ya know?

With the obvious damage of the bead now, and the possible unseen underlying issues,.... even if tire can be or is remounted, you'll have a matter of concern to keep a careful watch of. May not be a great issue for you if only of occasional use or distance or whatever. But if something you depend on,.... I too, would say it was "toast"! lol
 
You nailed it DR! The box on the crane the bike rides in, has a front channel on the end wall, and the tire failure was precipitated by the unsoftened/unradiused edges of the 1/8" aluminum sheet I used. The hundreds of hours of driving down the road plus while operating on a job site, adds up, a new way to keep the bike positioned in the box will be "engineered."

All the expert advice received here is appreciated, but this time I left out a crucial bit of information, my bad!



DRMousseau said:
Thinkin this tire is done,... even if ya can remount it, it's gonna be undependable.

Tires have always been an important matter for me, regardless of vehicle. Most critical, difficult and important issues have been those of my "apartment" (34' motorhome), various equipment, and bicycle tires of the larger sizes.

I'm thinkin you might have suffered a number of accumulative issues here. Up to now, you've had no problems, right? Heck, even cheap tires and rims can be serviceable for a while. But neglect maybe, has kinda caught up with ya, even if only a short term kinda neglect.

Low inflation is likely the major primary factor. Recommended inflation of the tire manufacture IS important, and manufactures max pressure IS within a large margin of safety. Unless a pressure range is specified on the sidewall or in tire specs of manufacture, it's usually best to maintain the max pressure stated on the tire. It's pretty specific to intended use and weight load. But I also wonder of some other "secondary" factors that may have contributed to this kind of failure. Usually kept in the crane??? Few understand the effects of heat and sunlight on tires. Both can contribute to "premature aging", and the light construction of bicycle tires are no more immune than the multi-belted tires of my 34' RV. Add a hard ride over anything that may cause a "bruise",... and you'll have a susceptible weakness that may cause a failure. ANY unusual "feel" to the tires is cause for close inspection and careful watch of a developing issue.

Here's an update, and you nailed it DR! The aluminum box on the crane I keep this thing in, and a brake formed channel mounted on the end wall, so when I roll it in it captures the front wheel, then a motorcycle tie down strap and a hinged metal bar squish down on the rear tire locking every thing in place. I wanted it super quick and easy to get in and out, and it works, less then 30 seconds it's out, another 30 and I'm riding off. BUT.....I think what's been happening, is because I failed to "soften" the edges of the channel, and it has sat in there for a few hundred hours while the crane is working plus going down the road, I think the explanation is simply the channel wore on things enough to precipitate the failure, my bad! I never really ran low pressure in this, as I do my full size fattie I use on rocky trails, this has only been on pavement and a little gravel. The rear tire is the same, and undamaged, no channel back there. A new channel with radius'd edges and maybe some hard foam board of some type should solve the problem.


Perhaps a "bruise" has caused some broken threads in the sidewall area causing an excessive "stretch" in this area of failure, even with low inflation pressure. Cheap tires often have a coarse tpi of cheaper materials that's particularly susceptible to such. Any excessive heat factor can also affect internal bonds and such that keep it all together. Again, cheap tires may not be vulcanized as well as they should or could be,... manufacturing profit issues and minimal specs, ya know. A lot of minor "unseen" issues can contribute to a failure we assume to be from something major. And perhaps it was nothing more than that low inflation pressure. Inspect it carefully, jus to see or maybe feel for anything seen or unseen that might have caused this. AND, check over the other tire assembly as well,.. jus in case, ya know?

With the obvious damage of the bead now, and the possible unseen underlying issues,.... even if tire can be or is remounted, you'll have a matter of concern to keep a careful watch of. May not be a great issue for you if only of occasional use or distance or whatever. But if something you depend on,.... I too, would say it was "toast"! lol
 
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