Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
Henry111   1 kW

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by Henry111 » Jul 31 2017 3:26pm

Thanks for all the input from you wonderful folks on Endless Sphere including you, rumme. Great work is done here.
But I can't afford anymore time for this. Gotta get back to real work.
Meanwhile, if anybody really wants to check out my bikes, they can do so by Google searching Long Beach Electric Bikes. I don't think I should post the actual link. I am afraid It might be considered spamming.
Also:
You might keep an eye out for the upcoming:
PEBA (Professional E-bike Builders Association) Dedicated to e-bike dealers and folks who want to be e-bike dealers who, I believe, should be building their own bikes instead of depending on over-priced importers that go out of business faster than dealers can get those bikes on their floors.
Last edited by Henry111 on Jul 31 2017 4:18pm, edited 4 times in total.

rumme   100 kW

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by rumme » Jul 31 2017 3:38pm

Henry111 wrote:Meanwhile, if anybody really wants to check out my bikes, they can do so by Google searching Long Beach Electric Bikes. I don't think I should post the actual link. I am afraid It might be considered spamming.
This forum has a "vendors section" and we would be glad to have you post your companies link there. Peace !

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by Henry111 » Jul 31 2017 3:45pm

rumme wrote:
Henry111 wrote:Meanwhile, if anybody really wants to check out my bikes, they can do so by Google searching Long Beach Electric Bikes. I don't think I should post the actual link. I am afraid It might be considered spamming.
This forum has a "vendors section" and we would be glad to have you post your companies link there. Peace !
Thanks for that kind advice, rumme. But I honestly did not come here to promote my business.

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cal3thousand   1.21 GW

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by cal3thousand » Jul 31 2017 5:18pm

rumme wrote:
Henry111 wrote:rumme regarding your comment:

" I don't even like the way your ebike looks. Its kinda " girly" looking in my eyes and as a 240 lb man , I would feel silly riding it.

You may know a lot about building e-bikes, but you obviously have no understanding of the market outside of DIYers. In the industry we don't call them girl's bikes anymore. They are called "step-thrus." There are good marketing reasons why I (and a big company like Pedego) stock MOSTLY step-thrus--and you are seeing more and more of them in even in pedal-only bike shops. But I don't think you have any interest in industry matters, so why should I educate you.

You mention "... if you lived near the beach...": Do you live in the USA? Because obviously you don't know that only a small edge of the big city of Los Angeles, where most of my business comes, from is on a beach.

Note: In my previous post, I meant to say RadRover, not RadPower.
I didn't call your ebike a girl bike...I said my personal perspective is it looks girly and I would feel silly riding it. Furthermore, its not just the step thru design that looks wimpy to me, it also the handle bars, the seat, the tires and the whole bike in general .

You are correct on stating that I have no interest in ebike industry concerns that would involve me doing a ebike business. Furthermore you seem to not comment on factual points about the entry level aspects of your ebike..like

RIM BRAKES

REAR MOUNTED BATTERY ON A RACK

LACK OF ANY SUSPENSION

I'm just trying to point out to you , that for those of us who have built ebikes , we immediately take note of these entry level aspects of a ebike and then look at the price of that ebike and evaluate the total picture. I think its safe to say, that many of your customers who buy your ebike, do not know much about ebikes in general nor have they spent any considerable time to compare other ebikes on the market at a similar price point as yours. These same customers probably do not realize that they could take a normal bike they have in their garage, and spend MUCH LESS then $1500 to buy a motor kit already mounted in a rim and battery , that would give them better performance then your ebike. Their lack of knowledge, is actually good for your business !
That's the point, these are customers, not DIY guys. Customers DON'T REALLY know much about ebikes (how many people bought Sondors' bikes?). Henry111's point is that there is a market of these people out there and he's wondering why it's not us (the guys with the bike experience and passion) that are serving these customers.

It's strange because he's seemingly asking for competition.
Get a Cycle Analyst and a Multimeter, you're still a noob if you don't have at least one of each.

Planning on posting questions or buying anything on this site? Put up your country (at minimum) on your profile. This is a worldwide forum and we haven't reached clairvoyance.

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by John in CR » Jul 31 2017 6:54pm

Why not?

- Lawyers
- A general public that is retarded or half a step above retarded at best
- Lithium batteries

Put those together and if you made money it would be stolen from you.

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by markz » Jul 31 2017 8:06pm

I get asked a lot when I am e-biking about
1) How far can you go
2) How much does it cost
3) How fast can you go

I need to start making up business cards, and make my ebicycle look handsome as frock.

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by WoodlandHills » Aug 01 2017 10:29am

If you want to help out independent builders then your association needs to offer liability insurance.

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by rumme » Aug 01 2017 11:09am

WoodlandHills wrote:If you want to help out independent builders then your association needs to offer liability insurance.

This is the sad reality of todays world...... money hungry LAWYERS...

its so bad, that people have become fearful of trying to help others in a life or death situation , out of fear of being sued if they get involved to help.

rumme   100 kW

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by rumme » Aug 01 2017 11:11am

markz wrote:I get asked a lot when I am e-biking about
1) How far can you go
2) How much does it cost
3) How fast can you go

I need to start making up business cards, and make my ebicycle look handsome as frock.
I also get a lot of questions from observers when I'm on my ebike, but 99% of them are not interested enough, to actually buy a ebike. This is still a very niche market that wont appeal to most people.

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by WoodlandHills » Aug 01 2017 3:32pm

rumme wrote:
WoodlandHills wrote:If you want to help out independent builders then your association needs to offer liability insurance.

This is the sad reality of todays world...... money hungry LAWYERS...

its so bad, that people have become fearful of trying to help others in a life or death situation , out of fear of being sued if they get involved to help.
If ordinary citizens did not want the services that lawyers provide, they would not hire them. Methinks you are blaming the tool and not the user...... Also I believe that Good Samaritan laws in all 50 states absolve bystanders that provide aid of all liability.

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by zackclark70 » Aug 01 2017 4:34pm

WoodlandHills wrote:
rumme wrote:
WoodlandHills wrote:If you want to help out independent builders then your association needs to offer liability insurance.

This is the sad reality of todays world...... money hungry LAWYERS...

its so bad, that people have become fearful of trying to help others in a life or death situation , out of fear of being sued if they get involved to help.
If ordinary citizens did not want the services that lawyers provide, they would not hire them. Methinks you are blaming the tool and not the user...... Also I believe that Good Samaritan laws in all 50 states absolve bystanders that provide aid of all liability.
its a sad world when you need a law that gives legal protection to someone that is saveing your life when i did my 1 week first aid training i was told of people over in the us taking legal action against the people that saved there like because the did things like crack a rib when giving cpr its crazy

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by MrDude_1 » Aug 01 2017 7:51pm

Henry111 wrote:In the industry we don't call them girl's bikes anymore. They are called "step-thrus." There are good marketing reasons why I (and a big company like Pedego) stock MOSTLY step-thrus--and you are seeing more and more of them in even in pedal-only bike shops. But I don't think you have any interest in industry matters, so why should I educate you.
Yeah, and we also live in a world where guys wear skinny jeans and act girly. Im not surprised. Especially if you're in LA. :lol:

That said, I have no interest in those girls bikes, simply because of geometry. The reason the standard safety bicycle worked in the first place is the strength of the triangle frame. You start adding on packs and the ability to hit higher speeds, and you better have a strong frame.
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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by markz » Aug 01 2017 8:40pm

rumme wrote:
markz wrote:I get asked a lot when I am e-biking about
1) How far can you go
2) How much does it cost
3) How fast can you go

I need to start making up business cards, and make my ebicycle look handsome as frock.
People are scared off by the high prices they see in the bicycle stores. And if they have any frugal sense to look at the online classifieds then they see all of the different selections, they get lost quickly. I think ready to ride bicycles is where its at, even if you are selling a kit.

I also get a lot of questions from observers when I'm on my ebike, but 99% of them are not interested enough, to actually buy a ebike. This is still a very niche market that wont appeal to most people.

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by markz » Aug 20 2017 3:33am

marvak wrote:You can have this as reference. German made motor and battery system. Top quality bike parts, like pinion gearbox.

Price is ~4000€

http://www.radrezept.com

http://www.radrezept.com/bikes/getrieberad/pcustom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sys85JhTtaM

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by cwah » Aug 20 2017 8:48am

Very hard to make decent profit in ebike business
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by LockH » Aug 20 2017 9:20am

`Kay. Have read this thread... taken notes... and responded... but added MY reply as a post in an ES thread The life of the peripatetic ebiker:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 7#p1313517

Hope it helps! ... and success to EVerybuddy.

Cheers
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
(Ebikers Anonymous - Where we're all miserable failures, but the parties are hilarious...)

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by LockH » Aug 20 2017 10:53am

Speaking of DIYers and the "ebike biz"... An advert seen just now on Amazon India:

24v motor
36V 350W Brushless Gear Hub Motor E-bike Motor Wheel Drive Kit
:
http://www.amazon.in/Brushless-Motor-bi ... 01-0267156

Image

(Not including battery) for (Giggle Translate) 18500 Indian Rupee watt equals near 300 US Dollars... Being offered for sale by Amazon user "robot chetash" ("committed to providing each customer with the highest standard of customer service")

So. Buy "in bulk" from China/wherever manufacturer for "bulk discount" then markup for local unit sales?

EDIT: BTW... Ad seen here:
https://doit-diy.com/2017/08/20/cheap-e ... for-india/
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
(Ebikers Anonymous - Where we're all miserable failures, but the parties are hilarious...)

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by miro13car » Jun 14 2018 4:19pm

why not in e-bike business?
how many times I got a comment like that:
" what 3000 dollars? I can buy a car for that kind of money...."
their mentality is to pay cheap and next starting fixing, replacing, mods, etc.
you get what you pay for .
some are stunned that my front wheel cost US$200 /Chris King components/

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by LockH » Jun 14 2018 5:57pm

^^ Hehe... It's ALL about the battery. Charge/discharge rates, chemistry, number of recharges... weight... (ease to swap) :lol:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
(Ebikers Anonymous - Where we're all miserable failures, but the parties are hilarious...)

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by Chalo » Jun 15 2018 12:36am

miro13car wrote:
Jun 14 2018 4:19pm
some are stunned that my front wheel cost US$200 /Chris King components/
Nothing wrong with a wheel costing $200 or a lot more. But I gotta say, Chris King components are breathtakingly overpriced for what they are, and they seem to be designed more by weed smoking than by real engineering.

They have nice anodized colors, at least.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by johnrobholmes » Jun 15 2018 2:24am

I think others have put it into good terms on why not to get into the ebike business.


Here is my reason why I got out. People want you to make all the decisions, do all the leg work, tell them what to do to build a bike. Then they buy $30 in spokes after taking a few hours in time. Hey, you do realize that was an employee you were talking with, right? An employee that has to get paid money, that I have to pay taxes and insurance on. Or maybe they come into the shop and spend a few hours picking our brain, and then roll in a few weeks later with something they bought off the internet. Gee whiz, thanks for the support.


I ran an ebike business for 4 years, charged a premium for build time, and still lost money with hardly any overhead. Ebike products have been the loss leader in my catalog when customer service time is accounted for. My spoke machine still works, and yet I don't offer custom spokes and wheel builds any longer. Why? Because Ebikers seem to have no concept of the time they take in relation to the purchase amount. I simply can't afford to spend $2k a year on customer service burden for every $1k sold. I offer nothing besides precut spokes and rims at this point, and we still get emails with people asking us to make their entire selection for an ebike build. What motor, what controller, etc.. sigh...

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by MrDude_1 » Jun 15 2018 6:49am

johnrobholmes wrote:
Jun 15 2018 2:24am
I think others have put it into good terms on why not to get into the ebike business.


Here is my reason why I got out. People want you to make all the decisions, do all the leg work, tell them what to do to build a bike. Then they buy $30 in spokes after taking a few hours in time. Hey, you do realize that was an employee you were talking with, right? An employee that has to get paid money, that I have to pay taxes and insurance on. Or maybe they come into the shop and spend a few hours picking our brain, and then roll in a few weeks later with something they bought off the internet. Gee whiz, thanks for the support.


I ran an ebike business for 4 years, charged a premium for build time, and still lost money with hardly any overhead. Ebike products have been the loss leader in my catalog when customer service time is accounted for. My spoke machine still works, and yet I don't offer custom spokes and wheel builds any longer. Why? Because Ebikers seem to have no concept of the time they take in relation to the purchase amount. I simply can't afford to spend $2k a year on customer service burden for every $1k sold. I offer nothing besides precut spokes and rims at this point, and we still get emails with people asking us to make their entire selection for an ebike build. What motor, what controller, etc.. sigh...
Im that guy.
If I was at your shop, I would have bought your spokes for $30 to support you. I know I could buy the exact same spokes for $13 off the internet, but I did take some of your time. The larger problem is that most bicycle parts are cheap. Bicycles are incredibly simple and parts are mass produced.
Today the quality of even the lowest tier parts exceed the requirements of casual riders... So why would anyone buy $500 parts from you when you can get a part that does the exact same for $35? to save a few ounces? for the brand name? no.
That is the death of all bike shops that dont have enough volume to appreciate the $30 sales.

While working with people always sucks, you have to realize that its not just them... You're trying to make a living selling cheap parts at high prices while everywhere else is flooded with the same or similar parts at far less.
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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by LockH » Jun 15 2018 7:40am

Hehe... I say again... The "path to earning net incomes" is through conversions. :lol: Plus, renting to "tourists". :wink:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
(Ebikers Anonymous - Where we're all miserable failures, but the parties are hilarious...)

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by miro13car » Jun 15 2018 11:18am

it all depends what you need bike for:
1. occasional rides in the summer on beautiful days only
2. riding 300 days in a year including harsh Canadian winters

and this is when you need quality of Chris King
you should see my front hub after 3 winters of riding on my winter ebike.
overpriced?

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Re: Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Post by markz » Jun 15 2018 4:00pm

miro13car wrote:
Jun 15 2018 11:18am
it all depends what you need bike for:
1. occasional rides in the summer on beautiful days only
2. riding 300 days in a year including harsh Canadian winters

and this is when you need quality of Chris King
you should see my front hub after 3 winters of riding on my winter ebike.
overpriced?
Yes, you and me both ride in the harsh Calgary winters, and now its harsh Calgary rain, then instantly it will be harsh Calgary +25C slightly cloudy weather and bam hot chicks 'n Stampede, patio's = Fun Times Ahead 8)

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