Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

Henry111

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Location
Long Beach, CA
There are a number of folks on here who really know how to put together an electric bike. And I readily admit that many of you know a hell of lot more than I do.
So I am curious to know why more of you are not in the business?
Please don't tell me about the risks and aggravation. Risks and aggravation come with operating any kind of business. And don't tell me about high costs. I think most of you know, that if you are working with the right suppliers, you can put together a nice 750W bike with a 36V/14Ah battery on a reliable frame for about $650 bucks. When you consider the selling price of the average imported bike, there is a sweet margin to be realized by assembling and selling your own.
So why are not more of you doing it? And why are not more dealers doing it?
With that thought in mind, maybe we need a Professional E-bike Builders Association dedicated to dealers, and would-be dealers, who build their own, rather than importing over-priced ready-to-rides?
 
because making something you ride your self is one thing and making something to sell to the public is a whole different ball game if i had the money i would probably get into racing some kind of ev but that is about all other than rewinding motors
 
zackclark70 said:
because making something you ride your self is one thing and making something to sell to the public is a whole different ball game if i had the money i would probably get into racing some kind of ev but that is about all other than rewinding motors

No question about it. Building for the public IS a whole different ball game, a game in which obviously you have no interest. And that is certainly OK. Enjoy!
 
Henry111 said:
I think most of you know, that if you are working with the right suppliers, you can put together a nice 750W bike with a 36V/14Ah battery on a reliable frame for about $650 bucks.

For what kind of bike and electric system? Suspicious Alibaba trinkets? Folks who don't know bikes will think more than $1000 is a lot to pay for one, and folks who know bikes will recognize that it's tawdry junk.

In the bike retail business, a bike that comes in a box for $650 will retail for between $1050 and $1100. That markup covers shipping, labor to assemble and tune, follow-up service, insurance, rent, business taxes and fees, utilities, tools and supplies, and sometimes even a little bit of profit.

I build, sell, and maintain bikes every day, and I'm sure not going to stake my reputation on whatever e-bike I can slap together for $650 cost.

Selling e-bikes means more tools, more expertise, more troubleshooting and support, more insurance, more warranty issues, more hokey Chinese made crapola from shifty vendors-- but not obviously more markup. I can't blame anybody for deciding it isn't worth it. I'd much rather build people's hub motor wheels and install their BBSHDs as piecemeal service items than try to turn a profit selling complete e-bikes.
 
Chalo, thanks for giving your reasons for not want to build and sell completed e-bikes. I'm sure there are many who agree with your reasoning.
But: I am still amazed that folks are still referring to Chinese products as "crapola" when practically every thing in this industry comes from China.

"Selling e-bikes means more tools, more expertise, more troubleshooting and support, more insurance, more warranty issues, more hokey Chinese made crapola from shifty vendors-- but not obviously more markup. I can't blame anybody for deciding it isn't worth it. I'd much rather build people's hub motor wheels and install their BBSHDs as piecemeal service items than try to turn a profit selling complete e-bikes."
 
Legal reasons....Australian laws are rediculous. :evil:
 
Sean9002 said:
Legal reasons....Australian laws are rediculous. :evil:

Thanks for your input, Sean9002 and yes, e-bike laws in Australia are different than those in the USA; however, my question is more concerned with the USA market.
 
Most of us can cook too. Not many of us want to start a restaurant.

You say to not tell you about aggravation and risk, but those two combined with thin margins is why nobody thinks its worth it. The answers may be phrased differently, but it really does come down to that. For the margins, its not worth the hassle.
 
Henry111 said:
Chalo, thanks for giving your reasons for not want to build and sell completed e-bikes. I'm sure there are many who agree with your reasoning.
But: I am still amazed that folks are still referring to Chinese products as "crapola" when practically every thing in this industry comes from China.

When prospective buyers discover that almost all the bikes at my shop are made in China, some are concerned about that. Occasionally I point out that iPhones are also made in China; that Chinese made products run the gamut from the best to the worst in the world. We count on our name brand suppliers to hold the Chinese manufacturers to acceptable standards of materials and workmanship.

The kinds of products you're talking about are not like iPhones. All the quality assurance has been done by the manufacturer to suit their own priorities... which is all the assurance you need that there will be problems.
 
No money in it. Lots of time for repair. My friend and his brother own for bike stores ebikezzz the one in Corona Del Mar has 80 or more bikes mainly Hibikes (?) middrives 3,400 - 6,900 for mainly Bosch
Middrives , but many others. They own 4 stores now. They started with pedigo, expensive junk as I first told with my 24s A123 4,500 at the time. With sonders and erad as starter ebike.
 
From what I have seen, owning an independent bike shop has gotta be one of the hardest ways to make a living. You're open 7 days a week. It's seasonal. You stare at the walls in the winter months. You got people like me who come in and buy an inner tube, but otherwise get my stuff from amazon or ebay, plus you don't want to keep a big stock of parts anyway.
 
Henry111 said:
There are a number of folks on here who really know how to put together an electric bike. And I readily admit that many of you know a hell of lot more than I do.
So I am curious to know why more of you are not in the business?

Most people here enjoy tinkering, but have other work that is more lucrative/more fulfilling.

Building for ones self is a passion, but start building to sell to others and it becomes tedious and monotonous.

Most people lack the understanding required to take proper care and preventative maintenance, and the amount of money required to build a completely idiot proof ebike is far more than most would be willing to pay. Failure to build an idiotproof ebike will only lead to endless complaints, repairs, returns, headaches, accidents and litigation.

Henry111 said:
Please don't tell me about the risks and aggravation. Risks and aggravation come with operating any kind of business.

Risks and aggravation can be mitigated or controlled in most businesses, and careful cost-benefit analysis is essential before commencing any business; this includes the assessment of risks and aggravation. If the business model seems unfavourable, most of us will decide there are better ways of earning income using the same skill sets. Technical skills acquired with building ebikes are cross transferable to many other fields, and most of us acquired the mechanical skills to build ebikes from other endeavours/lines of work.

Henry111 said:
And don't tell me about high costs.

It costs to do it right and not have endless headaches from people with burnt out motors, water shorted displays/controllers and dead batteries that inevitably arise from cheap builds with crappy parts.

Henry111 said:
So why are not more of you doing it? And why are not more dealers doing it?

Probably because after careful consideration, they don't see the value in it.... but If building and selling ebikes is your thing, then by all means - enjoy.
 
Batteries and time. Although I use LiPo batteries, I would never want to sell a product that uses them, people are dumb, and doing it as a business sets you up for liability, someone would end up burning their house down or something. Getting cylindrical cell batteries, like 18650s or 26650s (which I would love to do), in large quantities at a respectable price, is exceedingly difficult here in Canada. The only way I can get them is to ship them to a US border town, then drive down and pick them up, a 6h return journey. I can get them shipped from Asia, to the US, but they won't ship them to Canada. Argh!

As for time, I would only work on EEB/EM3EV/Qulbix based bikes, bikes like my own, for people willing to spend the money to get quality parts. It isn't cheap, and most people aren't willing to pay the money for the parts and now also for labour. It's getting into Stealth territory of prices.
 
Because it is not a good business to start with. Building good bikes is expansive and very few are willing to pay for them. Selling cheap bikes is a lot of problem for little profit.

We are not in China and the ebike market here is very small. Our typical ebike customer is looking for Western world service and quality, but conditioned by web publicity to Chinese price. Those who are starting ebike businesses are enthusiasts who want to contribute to the EV revolution. If they expect good profit, they are dreamers.
 
The idea of business is to make money. If you don't need money, then you don't need a business, then e-bikes can be your hobby.
 
d8veh, I agree. Its a wonderful hobby. I get to tinker with something, do research on trends and experiment with things that are not common yet. My ebike is fun for me and my grandkids to ride on. I am fortunate enough that I work only 8 miles from my home, so my ebike provides a really valuable back-up to my car (only when the weather is nice, I'm a wimp).

As a business?...its horrifying. Lots of people like sausage with their breakfast, but few people want to see how its made, especially every day at work. For every nine customers that are happy (or at least NOT mad), there is that one customer who will make your life miserable.

One time I made a huge batch of crock-pot shredded-beef burritos with rice. I had two or three for lunch every workday. When Friday rolled around, I knew the rest in the fridge would probably be sketchy by Monday (I should have frozen them, but I hadn't). I gave them away to co-workers...FOR FREE!

Some of them actually complained about the burritos, and on Monday...some of them asked where are their burritos, and why didn't I bring any more? I asked if they had saved their receipt.
 
These is no money. How many ebikes would you have to sell to clear over $100k after taxes? Or even $50k? Seems like a life consuming commitment with very little return on the emotional investment. On the other hand, it seems like a perfect way to spend the best years of your life permanently stressed, watching your children grow up from the windows of your shop..... So, if that's your thing: Go for it!
 
Have you ever tried to sell anything ebike related, on this forum ? I have, and can tell you, its very difficult and if you are hoping to make money, it is even more difficult.
Eventually, the ebike markets will offer better ebikes for lower costs. Its a waiting game , especially in America. The $5000 Bosch styled mid drive ebikes that offer a 11 AH battery at 36 volts , should become less and less marketable as time goes on. Eventually other competitors will enter the market with lower prices and similar specs.
 
The market in Orange County, CA seems small and growing at glacial speeds. There are enough good shops that it would be murder to try and compete IMO.
 
It would be neat to know the percentage of people in America, that actually own a ebike. Maybe 1 out of every 20,000 people ? That's not a lot of room for sales/ profits. It is still a " niche" market.
 
I only do beach cruisers. I keep seven bikes on the floor, five step-thrus (we don't call them girl's bikes anymore) in five colors, but only one standard (diamond) frame in black only.
Micargi Pentaria frame, 7-speed with all the Shimano stuff. Micargi maintains there own warehouse in Southern California.
Wholesale: $149.00
750W kit with quick release to make changing a flat less of a headache from CNE Bikes in ChangZhou, China.
$217.00 (Including door-to-door shipping.
36V/14Ah lithium with Anderson Power Pole connectors with mounting plate and three-position key from from Sun Ease Technology in Shenzhen, China.
$218.00. (Includes door-to-door shipping.)
Hardware: Rear rack, torque arm, kick stand, nuts and bolts.
$40.00.
Total cost: $624.00
I could assemble myself, but getting a little old--in fact, way to old for that--so I pay my assemblers $70.00 per bike.
So my total cost: $694.00.
My selling price: $1499.00.
Profit per bike: $805.00. Mark up: 86%. Margin: 54%.
In 2016 I sold 42 bikes. So far this year, I have sold 22. Not a big deal, but I am happy and my customers are happy, especially because they always know where they can bring their bike for service.
I work and sell out of my home in Southern California. I do, however, have a website which generates most of my business, but after 4 years in the business, I am now getting a lot of referrals.
I would like to encourage more e-bike builders to enter the e-bike business, so if anybody is more curious feel free to ask me questions about my business or details about my bikes. If you PM me I will provide a link to my website. I would show the link here, but I am not sure I am allowed to do that.
 

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Because people suck. :pancake:
 
Henry111 said:
I only do beach cruisers. I keep seven bikes on the floor, five step-thrus (we don't call them girl's bikes anymore) in five colors, but only one standard (diamond) frame in black only.
Micargi Pentaria frame, 7-speed with all the Shimano stuff. Micargi maintains there own warehouse in Southern California.
Wholesale: $149.00
750W kit with quick release to make changing a flat less of a headache from CNE Bikes in ChangZhou, China.
$217.00 (Including door-to-door shipping.
36V/14Ah lithium with Anderson Power Pole connectors with mounting plate and three-position key from from Sun Ease Technology in Shenzhen, China.
$218.00. (Includes door-to-door shipping.)
Hardware: Rear rack, torque arm, kick stand, nuts and bolts.
$40.00.
Total cost: $624.00
I could assemble myself, but getting a little old--in fact, way to old for that--so I pay my assemblers $70.00 per bike.
So my total cost: $694.00.
My selling price: $1499.00.
Profit per bike: $805.00. Mark up: 86%. Margin: 54%.
In 2016 I sold 42 bikes. So far this year, I have sold 22. Not a big deal, but I am happy and my customers are happy, especially because they always know where they can bring their bike for service.
I work and sell out of my home in Southern California. I do, however, have a website which generates most of my business, but after 4 years in the business, I am now getting a lot of referrals.
If anybody is more curious, PM me and I will provide a link to my website.


Very good for you ! I can see where specializing in that type of ebike in California would work for the beaches/boardwalks , but once again that is a specialized niche market area. I personally would never want to own that type of ebike and where Iive, there isn't much of a market for it.
 
Henry111 said:
I only do beach cruisers. I keep seven bikes on the floor, five step-thrus (we don't call them girl's bikes anymore) in five colors, but only one standard (diamond) frame in black only.
Micargi Pentaria frame, 7-speed with all the Shimano stuff. Micargi maintains there own warehouse in Southern California.
Wholesale: $149.00
750W kit with quick release to make changing a flat less of a headache from CNE Bikes in ChangZhou, China.
$217.00 (Including door-to-door shipping.
36V/14Ah lithium with Anderson Power Pole connectors with mounting plate and three-position key from from Sun Ease Technology in Shenzhen, China.
$218.00. (Includes door-to-door shipping.)
Hardware: Rear rack, torque arm, kick stand, nuts and bolts.
$40.00.
Total cost: $624.00
I could assemble myself, but getting a little old--in fact, way to old for that--so I pay my assemblers $70.00 per bike.
So my total cost: $694.00.
My selling price: $1499.00.
Profit per bike: $805.00. Mark up: 86%. Margin: 54%.
In 2016 I sold 42 bikes. So far this year, I have sold 22. Not a big deal, but I am happy and my customers are happy, especially because they always know where they can bring their bike for service.
I work and sell out of my home in Southern California. I do, however, have a website which generates most of my business, but after 4 years in the business, I am now getting a lot of referrals.
I would like to encourage more e-bike builders to enter the e-bike business, so if anybody is more curious feel free to ask me questions about my business or details about my bikes. If you PM me I will provide a link to my website. I would show the link here, but I am not sure I am allowed to do that.

Based upon the numbers you post here, this isnt a business, but a hobby. Why would you encourage anyone to get involved with a business that clears less than $40k a year pre tax? Can you really live in Long Beach on less than $800 a week and if so what sort of a life: is that enough to actually have a life at all or just survive? If you are retired and bored, or you have another good paying job, but still have time on your hands, sure: go build ebikes for fun. But don't ask why lots of other people aren't dropping everything to build and sell cheap ebikes, the numbers above show why they aren't! BTW, if you sold 42 last year and 22 by the end of the 7th month of 2017, you are on track to have zero growth over 2016's sales. Again, this is a hobby, not a serious business........
 
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