Commuter suggestion BBSHD vs MAC

My commute is about 19 miles each way including mostly flat asphalt, about 2 miles of rough road and 2 bridges with some stiff climbs. I have ordered Diamondback 2017 Trace Mountain Bike to convert to ebike.

Before deciding on building my own bike, I had bought a pre-built ebike with a hub motor. The motor failed the first day I used it. After banging my head for a month with a Chinese vendor in USA, I returned the bike. Based on that experience, I was almost decided on getting a BBSHD mid drive from EM3EV. When I wrote to them about my commuter requirements, they suggested I go with a MAC standard rear wheel drive. From what little I read on this forum, a MAC is very reliable so also is a BBSHD. I don't mind paying a difference of about $200-$300 going either way so long as I will have a very reliable set-up. What setup would be better for me?

My concerns with the hub motor are:
1. Painful to fix flats.
2. Difficulty in lifting the bike to put on a car rack or a bus rack (in case I want to use the bus as part of my commute). Not as balanced as a mid motor.
3. Do I need to be worried about broken spokes?
4. Where to mount the controller for a MAC (maybe minor issue)
5. What kind of display do I need to get. EM3EV seems to have a very basic display for the MAC. Display for BBSHD seems more rounded.
6. Do I need a Cycle Analyst to get full functionality (plus other things) that I get with BBSHD's display?
7. Is getting TDCM Torque Sensor worth it to go with the Cycle Analyst.
8. There are several rim type options for the MAC on EM3EV for 26 inch tyres. Which one should I get?

My concerns with the BBSHD are:
1. Wear on the chain. Don't want a broken chain when I am 10 miles from home.
2. Do I need to do maintenance on the motor?
3. Shifting gears is not smooth as need to cutoff motor while shifting gears.

I am thinking of getting 50V 18.6Ah battery to go with either setup. Will this battery be enough for my commute? I can charge at work. In intend to put in more pedal power on my way home and lighter while getting to work to avoid getting sweaty. I would like to average around 23-25 MPH.

Instead of carrying a charger with me, should I get two chargers, one at home and one at work? Is getting grin satiator worth the extra expense. One advantage with it is, I can mount it on the bike all the time. Does it make a lot of sense to charge only to 80% to increase life of battery?

Any good suggestions for a luggage rack on the back? What kind of kick stand is good for a heavy ebike. Is there a suggestion for a stable stand?

What are the other things I need to be concerned about.

I will be grateful for any comments or suggestions that help me make my decision and successfully build my first Ebike!

I wouldn't convert that bike with aluminum dropouts with a hub motor. If I had to convert it, and I wouldn't, I'd put a mid drive on it. But I wouldn't use it for a commuter. There's nothing more reliable than a a DD hub motor. For $500 you can put together a bike and dd hub motor kit that will out last any mid drive or geared hub motor, with little to no maintenance. See Need Advice in sig.

Mac 10 or 12 T , with the newer Cycle Analyst 3.1 , with the temp wire on current Mac version to communicate with the C.A. .

I am at lunch right now so will explain soon why this a better option for you.

ScooterMan101 said:

Mac 10 or 12 T , with the newer Cycle Analyst 3.1 , with the temp wire on current Mac version to communicate with the C.A. .

I am at lunch right now so will explain soon why this a better option for you.

Click to expand...

I'd agree, MAC and CA3. Run from a $500 cheap DD. A pair of torque arms, GRIN, and the drop outs are no problem.

tomjasz said:

ScooterMan101 said:

Mac 10 or 12 T , with the newer Cycle Analyst 3.1 , with the temp wire on current Mac version to communicate with the C.A. .

I am at lunch right now so will explain soon why this a better option for you.

Click to expand...

I'd agree, MAC and CA3. Run from a $500 cheap DD. A pair of torque arms, GRIN, and the drop outs are no problem.

Click to expand...

I did not want to go cheap after my experience with the pre-built ebike (that was not exactly cheap) that had a failed motor on the first day.

I will surely get the GRIN torque arms.

I will get the CA3. Should I also get the PAS speed sensor, TDCM torque sensing BB? What rim type should I get?

Any thoughts on the battery and charger?

I have experience with a Mac motor ( 2013 year model , the new ones are even better ) and with taking a E-Bike on the Bike Rack of a Bus and traveling that distance.

First even though the BBSHD would be good for Mountain areas , others have said here on E.S. that it is a real hassle when commuting and stopping many times at stop lights/signs.
A Hub motor is much better for that.
Also as you might know the Rack on the Front of busses are one long rectangle , with a motor that hangs down low in the mid section of a bike, I could rub on the metal of that rack, and even not let the tires all way down into the rack.

As far as Flats, I have with a little over 1,300 miles ( over 2,200 Km's ) I have had only one flat on my Mac build, and that was in the front with the biggest Goat Head Thorn I have ever seen in my life.

On my Road E-Bike with thinner tires I have 3 flats , with half of the miles ridden.

The Mac-E Bike has Continental Tour Ride 54 mm wide tires, heavy but flat resistant.

Also you do not always have to take off a rear wheel when fixing a flat on the rear, many times you can just take out the part of the tube with a hole and put the patch on / put back into the tire of which you only took one side off the rim.
And
With the new type of HiGo connectors, it would be very easy to take off a rear if you had to anyway.

You will want two chargers, charge to 90=95% at home the night before, and then again at work.

For Rims Down Hill Rims are best, Welded is best, and get eyelets on the rim.

For putting a bike on the Bus Bike Rack you , Do Not , lift the whole bike.
Pop a wheelie and put the front wheel in, then just lift the back end up and into the rack, that way you are only lifting a portion of the weight of the bike.

Mac 10 t probably best ( It would be good to get us the degree of slope and length of the hills you need to go up ) ( larger axle/nut Mac Motor )

New 3.1 C.A. that will communicate with the Mac so as to shut off the system before you would reach a over heat situation. ( new Mac Motor has heat sensors inside motor that hooks up to C.A. 3.1 )

Good strong Controller that has the C.A. wires / plug

Two chargers. ( with a Battery 14s and around 15 amps or more and two chargers you are set )

Good Torque arm ( solid one piece )

Thank you very much for the detailed response to my post. I had not thought about the BBSHD motor being an issue to put the bike on the bus rack. Also, thank you for telling me the technique on how to put an ebike on the rack.

I think you have convinced me to go the MAC hub motor route.

Would it be a good idea to use tube sealant to prevent/reduce flats? I will think of changing the tires to Continental Tour Ride 54 mm wide tires.

What is your opinion on the Grin satiator mounted on the bike compared to two chargers?

So, my setup will be:

MAC Standard rear freewheel, 10T 25 MPH
Alex DX32 Disc rim (not sure if this is the rim you meant)
9 fet 3077 30A controller
CA3 DPS Cycle Analyst
Cycle Analyst Mounting Bracket
CA3 Cycle Analyst PAS Speed Sensor
Cycle Analyst Program Cable
TDCM Torque Sensing BB For CA3 Cycle Analyst (Do I need this?)
GRIN Torque arms
14S6P 50V 18.6Ah battery
Two Battery chargers or one GRIN Satiators

Please let me know if I have missed something or there is some over kill.

ScooterMan101 said:

I have experience with a Mac motor ( 2013 year model , the new ones are even better ) and with taking a E-Bike on the Bike Rack of a Bus and traveling that distance.

First even though the BBSHD would be good for Mountain areas , others have said here on E.S. that it is a real hassle when commuting and stopping many times at stop lights/signs.
A Hub motor is much better for that.
Also as you might know the Rack on the Front of busses are one long rectangle , with a motor that hangs down low in the mid section of a bike, I could rub on the metal of that rack, and even not let the tires all way down into the rack.

As far as Flats, I have with a little over 1,300 miles ( over 2,200 Km's ) I have had only one flat on my Mac build, and that was in the front with the biggest Goat Head Thorn I have ever seen in my life.

On my Road E-Bike with thinner tires I have 3 flats , with half of the miles ridden.

The Mac-E Bike has Continental Tour Ride 54 mm wide tires, heavy but flat resistant.

Also you do not always have to take off a rear wheel when fixing a flat on the rear, many times you can just take out the part of the tube with a hole and put the patch on / put back into the tire of which you only took one side off the rim.
And
With the new type of HiGo connectors, it would be very easy to take off a rear if you had to anyway.

You will want two chargers, charge to 90=95% at home the night before, and then again at work.

For Rims Down Hill Rims are best, Welded is best, and get eyelets on the rim.

For putting a bike on the Bus Bike Rack you , Do Not , lift the whole bike.
Pop a wheelie and put the front wheel in, then just lift the back end up and into the rack, that way you are only lifting a portion of the weight of the bike.

Mac 10 t probably best ( It would be good to get us the degree of slope and length of the hills you need to go up ) ( larger axle/nut Mac Motor )

New 3.1 C.A. that will communicate with the Mac so as to shut off the system before you would reach a over heat situation. ( new Mac Motor has heat sensors inside motor that hooks up to C.A. 3.1 )

Good strong Controller that has the C.A. wires / plug

Two chargers. ( with a Battery 14s and around 15 amps or more and two chargers you are set )

Good Torque arm ( solid one piece )

Click to expand...

No one ever NEEDs one of those. Those are NICE to have.

If you really want PAS, a PAS sensor will work. The torque sensor will be harder to configure, but give you better sensing of pedaling.

Do you anticipate pedaling at low speeds much?

Personally, I prefer using a throttle and cruise control button in unison to control my speed while pedaling.

Thank you for telling me that I don't need it. I am not getting it. I will however get the PAS sensor. I don't think I will be pedalling at low speeds a lot, maybe when I am climbing over the bridge.

cal3thousand said:

No one ever NEEDs one of those. Those are NICE to have.

If you really want PAS, a PAS sensor will work. The torque sensor will be harder to configure, but give you better sensing of pedaling.

Do you anticipate pedaling at low speeds much?

Personally, I prefer using a throttle and cruise control button in unison to control my speed while pedaling.

Click to expand...

I do not use a PAS or Torque Sensor, I do not like them, I find it better to use a throttle with a cruise button, then when I find the speed I want to ride at I just shift the gears to put some effort into the cranks without hurting my knees.
For you I would recommend a brake / motor cut off switch , built into the brake handles, or the better one that Grin sells.

Although the Grin Satiator is a great Charger, I would not carry it around with me, unless I had a Velomobile and it was well padded.
Since you are using this conversion to go to work, two chargers will be better, one at home one at work.

That is a big battery , the only consideration is weight, it would be better with a battery that size , to have a removable one. Add a few straps to keep it in place while riding/it is on the frame , and when getting on a bus take it off and put it into your backpack, this will also make the bike easier to put onto the rack,
I find it best when putting a E-Bike on a Bus Rack to use a strap and strap it down, I try to put the bike on the front rack and tie it to the front of the back rack so it does not want to fly off the front of the rack.

Any Alex Downhill, or Any Mavic All Mountain Rim will do, probably have to find a 36 hole one. My Mavic Rim is a EN 321 Disc. If your bike is a 27.5 , you can still use a 26 inch wheel in the back , better for hub motors when going up hills to have the motor laced to a 26 inch than 27.5 or 29er.

A Better Rim is a DT Swiss Rim that is made for E-Bikes. Perhaps I can find a link latter.

ymd said:

My commute is about 19 miles each way including mostly flat asphalt, about 2 miles of rough road and 2 bridges with some stiff climbs. I have ordered Diamondback 2017 Trace Mountain Bike to convert to ebike.

Before deciding on building my own bike, I had bought a pre-built ebike with a hub motor. The motor failed the first day I used it. After banging my head for a month with a Chinese vendor in USA, I returned the bike. Based on that experience, I was almost decided on getting a BBSHD mid drive from EM3EV. When I wrote to them about my commuter requirements, they suggested I go with a MAC standard rear wheel drive. From what little I read on this forum, a MAC is very reliable so also is a BBSHD. I don't mind paying a difference of about $200-$300 going either way so long as I will have a very reliable set-up. What setup would be better for me?

My concerns with the hub motor are:
1. Painful to fix flats.
2. Difficulty in lifting the bike to put on a car rack or a bus rack (in case I want to use the bus as part of my commute). Not as balanced as a mid motor.
3. Do I need to be worried about broken spokes?
4. Where to mount the controller for a MAC (maybe minor issue)
5. What kind of display do I need to get. EM3EV seems to have a very basic display for the MAC. Display for BBSHD seems more rounded.
6. Do I need a Cycle Analyst to get full functionality (plus other things) that I get with BBSHD's display?
7. Is getting TDCM Torque Sensor worth it to go with the Cycle Analyst.
8. There are several rim type options for the MAC on EM3EV for 26 inch tyres. Which one should I get?

My concerns with the BBSHD are:
1. Wear on the chain. Don't want a broken chain when I am 10 miles from home.
2. Do I need to do maintenance on the motor?
3. Shifting gears is not smooth as need to cutoff motor while shifting gears.

I am thinking of getting 50V 18.6Ah battery to go with either setup. Will this battery be enough for my commute? I can charge at work. In intend to put in more pedal power on my way home and lighter while getting to work to avoid getting sweaty. I would like to average around 23-25 MPH.

Click to expand...

I seriously doubt the BBSHD would cause an issue with Bus Racks.

You can carry chain repair or even a spare chain. It's not a big deal to fix on the road.

I had a MAC-12t and felt the BBS02 was a huge upgrade. Faster top speed, able to handle much steeper
hills, and generally better Wh/mile.

Changing gears at lights is indeed more involved than on a hub motor. You'll get used to cutting off motor
manually to shift gears. Or a gear sensor is a nice upgrade.

Out of curiosity what are the bridges? Any idea what the grades are?

Just rolled over 6700km on my MAC 10T, with 6fet 3077 controller & CA3 from em3ev. The only problem I've had all this time were punctures in the first 200km because the wheel shipped with crappy rubber rim tape that failed early on. I run Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres.
Also needed to keep a close eye on spoke tension, mine kept on loosening after a 1-200km in the first year. But no broken spokes to date (touch wood).

Hub has been rock solid, though I mostly pedal a lot and ride with a 500W/40kmh cap so it hasn't been stressed at all.

Can't comment on torque sensor, but I hooked up a Grin aux pot to the CA3 to fake one out. Basically, I set up cadence proportional assist where I can fine tune the Pedal Rpm Vs Watts Assist power curve on a twist knob while I ride. Works really well for someone who wants to work but not too hard (like me). I just pick a speed, cadence and effort level and adjust the assist to match.

I read that more recent versions of the firmware supports lots of assist levels selected via a two button input to the CA3 aux connector which works out of the box (unlike my hack, which I did before 3.1 firmware).

BBSHD might not be an issue on a bus rack. I will not know unless someone who has done it can confirm. Maybe, while putting the bike on the rack, I might hit the motor on the rack? I need to think about it and observe closely when a bike is loaded on a bus rack to feel confident going for a BBSHD. In any case, I don't intend to go on the bus frequently, so I can still keep BBSHD as an option.

From what I have read elsewhere a hub motor gives better Wh/mile. I may be wrong. But, I think if I get a big enough battery, it should not matter much either way. The top speed for MAC-12t is 20 MPH and a BBSHD is definitely over 28 MPH. So, I think believe BBSHD is better than MAC-12t. Maybe, MAC-8t gives comparable top speed, though it might suffer going over hills? I am thinking of getting MAC-10t, which is a compromise. As my main purpose is long distance daily commute, I want to go with a setup that is more reliable even if marginally over the other option.

I guess, I will get used to cutting the motor at lights and changing gears. I have never fixed a chain. If it is that as simple as you suggest to fix a chain, I might be OK.

One of the reasons what initially attracted me to BBSHD is the motor is low and near the center of gravity of the bike which should give better handling compared to a hub motor.

Thanks to all the inputs I have received so far, I think I will now have to consider all the pros and cons of both setups and make a decision.

The bridges I need to cross are Dumbarton and one across 101. The later is a short though a bit steep bridge. I don't know the grades of the bridges.

tln said:

I seriously doubt the BBSHD would cause an issue with Bus Racks.

You can carry chain repair or even a spare chain. It's not a big deal to fix on the road.

I had a MAC-12t and felt the BBS02 was a huge upgrade. Faster top speed, able to handle much steeper
hills, and generally better Wh/mile.

Changing gears at lights is indeed more involved than on a hub motor. You'll get used to cutting off motor
manually to shift gears. Or a gear sensor is a nice upgrade.

Out of curiosity what are the bridges? Any idea what the grades are?

Click to expand...

The PAS sensor is only $20. Maybe, I will get it and if I don't like it, remove it. I will keep your suggestion of throttle with cruise button in mind.

I had read reviews on the Grin Satiator with easy mounting on a bike. For now, I guess I will get one charger. If I feel the Satiator serves me better, I can order it later.

I was also wondering how I can remove the heavy battery if I want to put the bike on the bike rack. I contacted the guys at EM3eV. They are coming up with a new triangle battery package which is water proof and they are working on a bike mount for it. I am planning to get it with a bag for now. Later when they release the bike mount, I can mount it on the bike directly and easily remove it.

I look forward to the link to the DT Swiss Rim.

ScooterMan101 said:

I do not use a PAS or Torque Sensor, I do not like them, I find it better to use a throttle with a cruise button, then when I find the speed I want to ride at I just shift the gears to put some effort into the cranks without hurting my knees.
For you I would recommend a brake / motor cut off switch , built into the brake handles, or the better one that Grin sells.

Although the Grin Satiator is a great Charger, I would not carry it around with me, unless I had a Velomobile and it was well padded.
Since you are using this conversion to go to work, two chargers will be better, one at home one at work.

That is a big battery , the only consideration is weight, it would be better with a battery that size , to have a removable one. Add a few straps to keep it in place while riding/it is on the frame , and when getting on a bus take it off and put it into your backpack, this will also make the bike easier to put onto the rack,
I find it best when putting a E-Bike on a Bus Rack to use a strap and strap it down, I try to put the bike on the front rack and tie it to the front of the back rack so it does not want to fly off the front of the rack.

Any Alex Downhill, or Any Mavic All Mountain Rim will do, probably have to find a 36 hole one. My Mavic Rim is a EN 321 Disc. If your bike is a 27.5 , you can still use a 26 inch wheel in the back , better for hub motors when going up hills to have the motor laced to a 26 inch than 27.5 or 29er.

A Better Rim is a DT Swiss Rim that is made for E-Bikes. Perhaps I can find a link latter.

Click to expand...

tln said:

ymd said:

My commute is about 19 miles each way including mostly flat asphalt, about 2 miles of rough road and 2 bridges with some stiff climbs. I have ordered Diamondback 2017 Trace Mountain Bike to convert to ebike.

Before deciding on building my own bike, I had bought a pre-built ebike with a hub motor. The motor failed the first day I used it. After banging my head for a month with a Chinese vendor in USA, I returned the bike. Based on that experience, I was almost decided on getting a BBSHD mid drive from EM3EV. When I wrote to them about my commuter requirements, they suggested I go with a MAC standard rear wheel drive. From what little I read on this forum, a MAC is very reliable so also is a BBSHD. I don't mind paying a difference of about $200-$300 going either way so long as I will have a very reliable set-up. What setup would be better for me?

My concerns with the hub motor are:
1. Painful to fix flats.
2. Difficulty in lifting the bike to put on a car rack or a bus rack (in case I want to use the bus as part of my commute). Not as balanced as a mid motor.
3. Do I need to be worried about broken spokes?
4. Where to mount the controller for a MAC (maybe minor issue)
5. What kind of display do I need to get. EM3EV seems to have a very basic display for the MAC. Display for BBSHD seems more rounded.
6. Do I need a Cycle Analyst to get full functionality (plus other things) that I get with BBSHD's display?
7. Is getting TDCM Torque Sensor worth it to go with the Cycle Analyst.
8. There are several rim type options for the MAC on EM3EV for 26 inch tyres. Which one should I get?

My concerns with the BBSHD are:
1. Wear on the chain. Don't want a broken chain when I am 10 miles from home.
2. Do I need to do maintenance on the motor?
3. Shifting gears is not smooth as need to cutoff motor while shifting gears.

I am thinking of getting 50V 18.6Ah battery to go with either setup. Will this battery be enough for my commute? I can charge at work. In intend to put in more pedal power on my way home and lighter while getting to work to avoid getting sweaty. I would like to average around 23-25 MPH.

Click to expand...

I seriously doubt the BBSHD would cause an issue with Bus Racks.

You can carry chain repair or even a spare chain. It's not a big deal to fix on the road.

I had a MAC-12t and felt the BBS02 was a huge upgrade. Faster top speed, able to handle much steeper
hills, and generally better Wh/mile.

Changing gears at lights is indeed more involved than on a hub motor. You'll get used to cutting

Out of curiosity what are the bridges? Any idea what the grades are?

Click to expand...

Read the first line of the post?. "commute is about 19 miles each way including mostly flat asphalt," silly to have a clown pedal BBSHD in this case.

Someday I will get a Mid-Drive, But only to go up steep ( over 12 % grades ) and long mountain roads.

From what you now say about those two bridges, a Mac is looking more and more like the better option.
Thought maybe you lived in S.F. or Berkeley Hills, Burlingame Hills, etc.

I go up much steeper grades with a Mac 6 T , although for shorter distances than the Dumbarton Bridge, laced to a 650 b Rim ( 27.5 inch ) Now that you state your those bridges, a Mac 8 T would be better.

If you want speed just add more amps , I just yesterday talked with the person who sold me my Mac motor, he is going faster than the BBSHD , when he puts 30 amps into His Mac Conversion, with a small tire at that , he uses a 17 inch motorcycle rim and tire. So you can get good speeds with a Mac Hub.

I can do 27-28 mph with my Mac 6 T when using around 22-26 amps.

Chinese Chargers are very cheep , shipping is not, much better to order 2 chargers with your order.

Here is a link to DT Swiss Website , then you can search for the right size from some vendor on the net. they make it in at least two sizes, notice it comes in either 32 spoke hole or 36 spoke hole versions.

https://www.dtswiss.com/Components/Rims-Road/535

I help a freind with his mid drive sales. I often get a case like this. Rather than saddle someone with a higher maintenance motor they don't need a suggest exactly what scooter so wisely suggests. Great advice.

The Original Poster should buy the Leaf 1500W kit, for $350usd + about another $100 in shipping.
It has a display, maybe its a KT display.

YMD --
I live mid-peninsula.
Have a MAC setup pretty much exactly what you are considering.
Also have a similar BBS02 setup.
Love the BBS02, is no question the more "polished system"... but in practice I find myself riding the MAC more.
if trying them both would help you decide, just pm me and we'll figure out a time.

That is very kind of you. I have sent you a PM.

I find the help in this forum has been really great.

footloose said:

YMD --
I live mid-peninsula.
Have a MAC setup pretty much exactly what you are considering.
Also have a similar BBS02 setup.
Love the BBS02, is no question the more "polished system"... but in practice I find myself riding the MAC more.
if trying them both would help you decide, just pm me and we'll figure out a time.

Click to expand...

ScooterMan101, I very much appreciate all your very knowledgeable help to guide me in my decision. Thank you very much.
Would it be OK to go with the MAC 8T given that my commute does involve some climbing. Would I not be heating up the motor if I inadvertently push the throttle full at a high gear going up the Dumbarton bridge. I am just considering the worst case scenario. If the motor is safe even under worst case loads, then I will get the MAC 8T. Otherwise, would not MAC 10T a better choice?

Thanks for the link to the DT Swiss website. I will keep this in mind. For now, to make things simpler I will get a motor mounted on the rim from em3ev and upgrade later.

ScooterMan101 said:

Someday I will get a Mid-Drive, But only to go up steep ( over 12 % grades ) and long mountain roads.

From what you now say about those two bridges, a Mac is looking more and more like the better option.
Thought maybe you lived in S.F. or Berkeley Hills, Burlingame Hills, etc.

I go up much steeper grades with a Mac 6 T , although for shorter distances than the Dumbarton Bridge, laced to a 650 b Rim ( 27.5 inch ) Now that you state your those bridges, a Mac 8 T would be better.

If you want speed just add more amps , I just yesterday talked with the person who sold me my Mac motor, he is going faster than the BBSHD , when he puts 30 amps into His Mac Conversion, with a small tire at that , he uses a 17 inch motorcycle rim and tire. So you can get good speeds with a Mac Hub.

I can do 27-28 mph with my Mac 6 T when using around 22-26 amps.

Chinese Chargers are very cheep , shipping is not, much better to order 2 chargers with your order.

Here is a link to DT Swiss Website , then you can search for the right size from some vendor on the net. they make it in at least two sizes, notice it comes in either 32 spoke hole or 36 spoke hole versions.

https://www.dtswiss.com/Components/Rims-Road/535

Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion. Do you know how reliable this kit would be compared to the MAC hub kit I am considering? Looks like this kit has regenerative braking. How effective is it? I guess, it will also add drag in case I have to use only pedal when battery is dead? As I mentioned in my OP, I am looking for the best reliable setup and would not mind paying a couple of dollars more for it.

markz said:

The Original Poster should buy the Leaf 1500W kit, for $350usd + about another $100 in shipping.
It has a display, maybe its a KT display.

Click to expand...

ymd, how much do you want to pedal, and how much do you want to sit back and cruise? If you want to pedal along and feel like it is a bike, then the BBS or Mac.

On the way to work, I want to pedal no more than breaking a sweat so I don't go to work all sweaty. On the way home I want to pedal as much as I can to get some work out. That is my plan for now, things might change once I actually start using the bike for commute.

PRW said:

ymd, how much do you want to pedal, and how much do you want to sit back and cruise? If you want to pedal along and feel like it is a bike, then the BBS or Mac.

Click to expand...

if I want a bit of a workout, and not be changing gears all the time - I take my Mac10T commuter
if I am going offroad - I take my BBSHD
if I want to cruise fast, on or off road - Mxus 3k