500w Vs 1000 watt DD hub motor

What's up every one. Is a 500w motor the same as a 1000w when it comes to Chinese hub motors or is there an actual difference meaning if I used a 40amp controller for both motors at 50 volts would there be any advantage to either motor.

Whats confusing you is there are many specs. The generally cheap, dd motors are basically identical in terms of winding, magnet size, and motor power rating, which is 500w. That is the motor wattage spec. Nearly all types of bike motors can do 3x the motor spec, because the use at 3x power is intermittent, not continuous.


but the kit may be sold as 1000w, because the assembly of motor, controller, and battery voltage can produce 1000-1500w. In this case some of the wiring might be a bit thicker leading into the motor, but its still that same 500w rated motor core.

This type motor, call it 9 continent type, with the 27-28 mm wide magnet, is easily able to stand quite a bit of duration of 2000w, enough to run a 2000w controller/battery system, and not overheat the motor in normal use. 30-45 min usually possible.

Overload it enough, over 300 pounds loads on hills, and then it may or may not overheat, depending on actual duration, load, and even the weather.

Yes, there's a difference between a 500W rated motor and a 1000W rated motor, assuming the dealer isn't a crook. A 500W rated motor is rated to run at 500W continuous, and a 1000W rated motor is rated to run at 1000W continuous. The 1000W rated motor will have more copper windings and will weigh more than the 500W rated motor. You can also put more power into the 1000W rated motor for a longer period of time without burning it up.

Lemme throw this into the ring
The Conhismotor from ebay is labelled at 1500W, but the controller is very "nit-picky" I cant just twist the throttle and go as it will cut out. Say 8kph and twist 1000W it cuts out. So gotta baby the throttle and pedal. But when going faster, the whole system doesnt do much past 1800W.

I guess what I am saying is the sellers will slap on any number to sell their product.

I've had a couple MXUS motors. One was sold to me as a 500w, the other was sold as a 1000w. Both were the same motor. No wire difference, no performance difference, and no trickery on the part of the vendors. They just rated them differently for different reasons.

Unlike gas engines that are rated at peak power, electric motors are usually rated at what they can handle in continuous duty. But continuous duty can be defined in different ways. In most cases for a battery operated device, it's for the full charge cycle of the battery.

If you have a 500w Nine Continents or MXUS motor and ride down the street at 20mph, you're pumping out around 500 watts, the motor should handle that for the next millennium of constant running. If you bump that same motor up to 1000 watts at 30mph, the motor can probably handle that for the next 100 hours. That's far longer than the battery is going to last, so it's still OK to call this a 1000w motor.
As Dogman Dan eluded to, you can even run these motors up to 2000w unmodified for more than a half hour in most cases. Since it would take a Huge 1000watt hour battery to get 30 minutes out of a motor at 2000 watts, it's still technically within the duty cycle of a normal battery, so you could call it a 2000w motor.

Another way you;ll find these motors rated, is not by the motor it's self, but by the peak output of the whole kit.
The 22 amp Infineon controller is a fairly standard, cheap, robust controller used in many of these kits. at 36v it puts out ~800 watts peak. at 48v it puts out ~ 1000 watts peak (A x V = W ) So a 500w motor with a 36v 22a controller has a peak output of ~800 watts, making it a 800 watt kit. A 500w motor with a 48v 22a controller has a peak output of ~1000 watts, making it a 1000 watt kit.

If you got the same motor when you bought a 1000W as you got when you bought the 500W motor, then you got screwed. Plain and simple. My experiences were much different when I compared a 500W Yescomusa motor to their 1000W motor. The 1000W motor outperformed the 500W motor considerably, both in acceleration and top speed usimg the same controller and battery pack charged to the same voltage. IOW's, everything the same except the motor.

Yeah and you know why they do that, its because of the people who are so concerned about the local laws.
So you got 2 or 3 motors exactly the same, one listed as 500W, another 750W and another 1000W. Mr. Ozzy Osbourne has local laws that state 500W is the max, he disregards all the motors rated 500W and higher and purchases the 500W motor. While Mr. Garth Brooks has a local laws that state 750W is the legal allowable limit. And finally Mr. Snoop Doggy Dog laws state 1000W.

Then you got others, whos laws state 250W or 750W yet we buy 3000W or 5000W motors, ride on bike pathways, in parks, on sidewalks.... we are courteous to our fellow walkers and dogs and children and give them plenty of room in case they get startled and decide to jolt off the pathway onto the grass about 5-8 feet. We dont do wheelies, we ring our bells pleasantly, we give nods to fellow bicyclists and if the Lycra's moan and complain we twist the throttle and pass them quickly, but safely, giving them a pleasant full handed wave or peace sign.

I agree with Wes, if you paid more for the same 500w motor labeled as 1000w, then you got screwed. Its only a 500w motor. If the price was the same though, you merely got spoofed. That 500w motor can generally handle 1500w max easy, in the kind of not continuous full power use typical of bike motor use.


But that is motor rating. In many cases a system rating difference just means a different controller, and maybe thicker wire, to the same 500w rated motor.

If you are comparing two similar looking motors, the best way to gauge different capabilities is to compare copper weight, or magnet width. Motor weight can vary for other reasons than the copper, but I can assure you that a 5 pounds more difference is very very likely to mean wider magnets, and a wider winding with more copper, and a harder pulling motor.

There are many ways to rate an electric motor. You can't really tell how conservatively they are rating it. How much safety margin is in their rating, etc. The power rating is not a very detailed indicator at all. Simple things such as changing the wheel size makes a big difference in actual use. The windings and voltage make a difference. How hot your environment is makes a difference as to how much power it will really handle. A better way to compare motors is magnet width and other parameters like motor weight, but even that is difficult because a really well designed motor may be lighter. The real ratings are often harder to get to - efficiency, max torque, RPM per volt, turn count, wire gauge, magnet width and strength, gap, quality of bearings, axle width, offset required, insulation temperature rating, magnet temperature rating, lamination quality and thickness, quality of materials, water sealing, etc.

At the end of the day you can choose a motor that folks have a lot of experience with, and then you'll have some idea of what you're getting. Or you can choose something else, and get something that you will have to experiment with and find out it's actual characteristics. There are a lot of ways to save money when making a motor, cutting corners.

note - motors don't cut out. Controllers cut out. This typically happens when the motor current exceeds the controller's safe limit. This can happen when giving too much throttle at a low speed. This can be adjusted on some controllers by programming to ramp up power more slowly, or setting the controller for a lower speed or current. It may indicate a controller that is not well matched to the voltage, motor and wheel size.

Suggest people read Justins post on Motor Ratings,

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89992&start=75#p1312591

Bought a 36v 1000w hub motor on ebay from seller winatlast1.
Received a 36v 500w hub setup instead. I sent a message with pictures to seller. He or she told me they don't sell 36v 1000w hub and that I made a mistake. Funny thing is on my purchases page on ebay it says paid/sent items 36v 1000w hub motor. So if your thinking of buying on ebay Avoid winatlast1 they are thieves, cons and should change their name to connedanother1

Shaun76 said:

Bought a 36v 1000w hub motor on ebay from seller winatlast1.
Received a 36v 500w hub setup instead. I sent a message with pictures to seller. He or she told me they don't sell 36v 1000w hub and that I made a mistake. Funny thing is on my purchases page on ebay it says paid/sent items 36v 1000w hub motor. So if your thinking of buying on ebay Avoid winatlast1 they are thieves, cons and should change their name to connedanother1

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Welcome to ES Shaun76.

Electric motor power ratings are fuzzy.

With higher voltage you can get more RPM and power out of a hubmotor. It is the motor torque that is the primary limit (given a size and weight of motor). Motor current makes torque and heat. The current squared times the resistance defines the heat. Increasing the torque load slows the motor and increasing the current to make more torque quickly makes more heat. So if you spin that motor faster the same torque will make more power. How fast the motor spins is a function of the voltage. So you can get more power out of the motor at 48V than you can at 36V. To make more power at 36V would require the motor to be wider and/or larger in diameter, both of which would increase the weight. Such motors are not a good fit for a bicycle wheel.

DD hub motors can take a lot of power continuously if the RPM is kept high enough. They can also take a lot of power for a short time before they get too hot at lower RPM. You can put 1000W into a hubmotor at 36V but it will get hot.

So your motor may be a typical ebike DD motor. The real issue is the RPM per volt and the wheel size and voltage you plan to use, and the speed that will generate. With a smaller wheel the RPM is higher for the same road speed. So more power can be generated. But the question is what voltage will it require to spin that fast? 36V motors require higher RPM/volt ratings to make useful speed at the lower voltage.

If you want to run more power you probably don't want to build a 36 volt ebike. Either 48 or 52 volts would be a better choice. And smaller wheels are also better at getting power from a hubmotor because they allow it to operate at higher RPM.

From what I've read, when it comes to torque available with DD hubs, wider and taller rotors are better, all else being equal.

AHicks said:

From what I've read, when it comes to torque available with DD hubs, wider and taller rotors are better, all else being equal.

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Yes. The example I have is a CroMotor which is about twice the width of an average DD hubmotor. Major upgrade in torque. But the weight gain is a lot. The motor alone weighs as much as a light bicycle.

Taller rotors exist as well, but they require physical structure and the magnetic losses with RPM go up, so as everything it is a tradeoff.

Ok muxus makes a 3,000 watt motor 45mm magmets qs makes a 3,000 watt motor 50mm magnets.The qs motor weighs more and would just bury the muxus.

999zip999 said:

Ok muxus makes a 3,000 watt motor 45mm magmets qs makes a 3,000 watt motor 50mm magnets.The qs motor weighs more and would just bury the muxus.

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The wattage ratings are pretty fuzzy, so they can claim different ratings for the same hardware. In many cases they claim what their market demands, for example 250, 350, 500 or 750 watts might be a legal requirement, so they use that number for the motor. Clearly the actual power is controlled by the electronics, the motor just needs to not melt or arc over. The RadCity my son has is 750 watts because that's the legal market they are selling into. It is a DD motor that doesn't get warm at 750 watts so far as we've seen. They've limited the power and the motor current so it doesn't produce too much torque, and as a result it runs very cool, but feels pretty weak compared to a DIY kit which hits higher motor current levels.

I think the Cromotor is a QS motor. Not their best, but a pretty good motor. I've put up to 5kw into it in some tests. That lifts the front wheel even on a long heavy frame. I dialed it back till the front wheel stayed on the pavement. Still accelerates and climbs well, and doesn't get above moderately warm. So 50mm wide magnets have a lot of performance compared to 25mm or 27mm wide magnets.

The key thing is "all else equal". There are many other details that will affect a motor's performance, though generally in smaller increments. I would not expect a 50mm motor to "bury" a 45mm motor, but if there are a number of other important improvements there could be a difference. Things like copper fill and magnetic gap can be pretty important.

I bought an 1,500 edge motor (2) and each let the magnets go. I got one reguled a nd broke some so one good motor ring two good stators. I thought these was the miracle motor. Crap. Ones working but to small after the muxus 3,000. So once you go higher power or big motor it's hard to go back

Bury I mean it can talke a lot more watts for a lot longer. Still got to get the heat out.

Getting heat out of the motor is another performance area. Important if pushing the motor hard.