IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by DRAV » Aug 16 2017 3:27pm

I've been bitten by the E bug and im thinking of building my own ebike using the nyx frame kit, what would be a reliable very high power hub motor and controller setup, qs? Cromotor? Adaptto? Any help/advice before making my decisions on parts is greatly appreciated.

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by wesnewell » Aug 16 2017 3:33pm

Read Need Advice in sig.
Need Advice? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=66302
Mongoose 26" Ledge 2.1 mtb bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $200, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $217=~43mph, range=45 miles @ 20mph. 25K miles and still going strong.
Huffy Fortress 3.0 with MXUS 3000 4T motor, 24s lipo, 96V 60A controller. Total cost with extras <$700. Top speed ~50mph
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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by LockH » Aug 16 2017 5:31pm

"very high power hub motor"...

Define please?
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

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viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by MadRhino » Aug 16 2017 9:28pm

The Cromotor is a QS 205 with some mods to make it lighter. Same power, with an acceleration advantage for the lighter weight Cromotor, but a heat dispersion advantage for the unmodified QS. The QS has another advantage in that it can be ordered in a variety of winding. If acceleration performance is important to you to the point that paying extra for a lighter version of the QS, the Cromotor is a good choice since doing the mods yourself is very time consuming and difficult to achieve as neat a result as the cromotor. Then, those who buy a Cromotor and lace it in a motorcycle wheel, are paying extra for nothing since they are losing any acceleration advantage in a heavier rim/tire. The unmodified QS has much better acceleration in a bicycle wheel, than a cromotor in a motorcycle wheel.

The controller is not as important as one may think for acceleration. Expansive controllers have more features, and don't require any mods. That is their real advantage. Simple mods to a cheaper controller can make it feed more power, only with less tuning options.

The weight of the complete finished bike is important for performance. Choice and size of batteries are for a big part of it, but also the choice of components. At some point, it does become very expansive to save weight and still retain stiffness/reliability. There are compromises to make, according to your requirements and budget.
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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by DRAV » Aug 17 2017 5:36am

I live 20 miles outside central london and was thinking of using the bike for commuting (mainly during the summer months) but being an ex freestyle bmxer in my younger days I still want to go bat shit crazy and have full offroad/trail capabilities, I would need to find a happy medium between low end acceleration and top end speed etc, im of the opinion that when I build this bike I want to do it right the first time(ish) and try to make it bullet proof in the process, being very new to this scene any advice/opinions would be appreciated and fully taken on board,

My thoughts on parts so far-

NYX frame kit?
Qs 8000w rear hub motor?
Adaptto controller setup?
Wheel/rim & spokes size?
Front suspension forks (possibly to take power of hub motor)? Is it worth it?
Rear suspension shock?
Front & rear disc brakes?
Battery & bms pack?
Gearing/derailleur?
Twist grip throttle full or half?

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by zackclark70 » Aug 17 2017 5:54am

DRAV wrote:I live 20 miles outside central london and was thinking of using the bike for commuting (mainly during the summer months) but being an ex freestyle bmxer in my younger days I still want to go bat shit crazy and have full offroad/trail capabilities, I would need to find a happy medium between low end acceleration and top end speed etc, im of the opinion that when I build this bike I want to do it right the first time(ish) and try to make it bullet proof in the process, being very new to this scene any advice/opinions would be appreciated and fully taken on board,

My thoughts on parts so far-

NYX frame kit?
Qs 8000w rear hub motor?
Adaptto controller setup?
Wheel/rim & spokes size?
Front suspension forks (possibly to take power of hub motor)? Is it worth it?
Rear suspension shock?
Front & rear disc brakes?
Battery & bms pack?
Gearing/derailleur?
Twist grip throttle full or half?
Dont bother with high power that close to London you will get busted i live about 20 miles from London and i can tell you that the London cops know alot more about Ebikes than any other cops i have bumped into i have never been busted as i only ride legal bikes on the road

i am near reading if you ever want to see what a cyclone setup is like at various power levels

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by DRAV » Aug 17 2017 6:13am

I would limit the bike while on the road in london, the high power would really be to feed me adrenaline while on the trails etc, how long does it take you to get in from reading on your ebike?

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by dogman dan » Aug 17 2017 6:34am

Might be worth it to have a less conspicuous e bike for the trip into town. I did not say legally slow, just less looking like fast.

Later on, invest in the fun bike, with expendable money from the entertainment budget.

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by LockH » Aug 17 2017 7:04am

Hehe... "how long does it take you to get in from reading"...

Forgive one from the colonies (Canada, eh?) from having to look that up. Looks like Giggle Maps (sp?) puts "downtown" Reading, Berkshire to London (downtown) using an old pedal-only antique/retro/vintage/etc bicycle as about 46 miles...

ACK! ... Seen somewhere:
EAPCs – Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles

The Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles – EAPC – (Amendment) Regulations 2015 states that electric bikes that have powered assistance to a maximum of 25 km/h (15.5 mph) using a motor of no more than 250 Watts (maximum continuous rated power output) are considered bicycles and known as EAPCs, or electrically assisted pedal cycles.
American cousins get to play w/one whole HORSE (about 750 watts)... North of the border Canadians are more Pony-Powered at "only" 500 watts of power (note our laws "restrict" to 500 watts CONTINUOUS... with no mention yet re any PEAKS, or their DURATION <wink wink>).

BUT EVen at "only" 500 watts of power, in urban travels (mostly for shorter distances like maybe 10 miles... about, or less) on "congested" streets filled w/"bumper-to-bumper" "stop-and-go" vehicles, one "ebiker" (moi) has NO problem "beating" and passing hundreds of other vehicles daily.

EVen "beating" with stuff like usually getting the "best parking spot" right outside the door of where I'm going - while other vehicle operators ("drivers") are spending X amount of time circling around just looking for ANYWHERE they can leave their vehicles within staggering distances from their destination (used to be called "walking")...

ONE "nice" thing about electric traction (electric motors)... about FULL torque at ZERO rpm. Just gently squeeze that little "GO button"... and yer "burning rubber". <grin>

Anyway. Again, some may wonder about "very high power". (No arguments here re HUB motor placement, however manufacturers do seem to be leaning more for mid-drive locations...)

And no disagreements that "high power" can get one out of any "problems" quicker... BUT might get one IN to any "problem" scenarios as well. <wink>

In summary... I would def. be looking for a switch/etc to "de-power stuff" for day-to-day drudgery. ;)
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
(Ebikers Anonymous - Where we're all miserable failures, but the parties are hilarious...)

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by zackclark70 » Aug 17 2017 8:44am

DRAV wrote:I would limit the bike while on the road in london, the high power would really be to feed me adrenaline while on the trails etc, how long does it take you to get in from reading on your ebike?
they know alot of the tricks to getting high power and the "off road mode" trick i have done over 70,000 miles in the last 10 years and the only time i have been stoped by the police is when my rear light fell off and they picked it up stopped me and gave it back lol ( was shitting myself for a min as it was traffic cops and blue lights ) i was 100% legal at the time but you can never be 100% sure its restricted right at the 250w law is stupid nearly every motor can peak over 250w but all it takes is 1 asshole cop and they can make things difficult no clue if you could argue 250w+ spike in court and i wouldn't like to find out

most end users can just say they know nothing and as long as the speed restriction works they can argue they have no idea about watts amps testing and that they trusted the seller but someone like me that posts on forums has house full of bike bits and electronics cant really argue that i dont know how to make sure its legal again i dont think a precedent has been set in court but i wouldn't like to find out the hard way

i have 120+ mile range worth of batterys i can carry 2.7kwh easy ( 16kg ) but i have over 6kwh of battery's that are working + 8kwh of cells

my advice for people that want to go over powered and break the law is to make sure your happy with the consequences if they catch you and to make sure they have no other reason to stop you ( lights bits hanging of bikes no breaks obvious motors battery's and what not ) i will always stick with cyclone motors they make them from 250w to 1680w and they all look the same on the outside ( other than the controllers being internal or external )

Never over take cars or go over 15.5mph without fake pedaling dont take off like a rocket ( don't stand out so nobody has any reason to think your not just another person on a bike )

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by DRAV » Aug 17 2017 10:07am

I fully appreciate what you all say re onroad ebike limits in the uk but 15.5mph/250w max is obviously not going to cut it when I go onto private roads and off road which is why I want to build a strong reliable powerfull off road ebike, im not planning on getting pulled up by the old bill as I want to limit the bike at a flick of a switch if possible? for public roads.

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by LockH » Aug 17 2017 10:09am

zackclark70 wrote:Never over take cars or go over 15.5mph without fake pedaling dont take off like a rocket ( don't stand out so nobody has any reason to think your not just another person on a bike )
Careful. `Round here, one disabled old guy I know (won't mention any names [cough cough]) can actually stagger ("walk") faster than a lot of "urban" traffic doing the Urban Shuffle dance (two steps forward w/one back).

(Just one frame of reference.)
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
(Ebikers Anonymous - Where we're all miserable failures, but the parties are hilarious...)

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by zackclark70 » Aug 17 2017 10:16am

DRAV wrote:I fully appreciate what you all say re onroad ebike limits in the uk but 15.5mph/250w max is obviously not going to cut it when I go onto private roads and off road which is why I want to build a strong reliable powerfull off road ebike, im not planning on getting pulled up by the old bill as I want to limit the bike at a flick of a switch if possible? for public roads.
you might want to note that a power switch does not make a bike legal as it can be done on the move

My off road bike needs 2 keys to put it into high power mode and i always have 2 other people hold them when we are on the road so i can avoid any issues with the law ( even then its still technically illegal as the motor is rated to over 250w ) but i am sure 99.9% of cops will be fine with it and when i do it i accept the fact i might get really unlucky ) if i get stopped they can see its capped at 250w and 15.5mph and to be honest i get over taken by the guys on stock bosh kits but i wont risk a £3000+ bike for the sake of getting to my off road spots a few mins faster

once i am there i get the keys off the other people and turn it up to what i need ( 2x 8kw max controlers and 2x 6kw max motors )

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by DRAV » Aug 17 2017 2:03pm

zackclark70 wrote:
DRAV wrote:I fully appreciate what you all say re onroad ebike limits in the uk but 15.5mph/250w max is obviously not going to cut it when I go onto private roads and off road which is why I want to build a strong reliable powerfull off road ebike, im not planning on getting pulled up by the old bill as I want to limit the bike at a flick of a switch if possible? for public roads.
you might want to note that a power switch does not make a bike legal as it can be done on the move

My off road bike needs 2 keys to put it into high power mode and i always have 2 other people hold them when we are on the road so i can avoid any issues with the law ( even then its still technically illegal as the motor is rated to over 250w ) but i am sure 99.9% of cops will be fine with it and when i do it i accept the fact i might get really unlucky ) if i get stopped they can see its capped at 250w and 15.5mph and to be honest i get over taken by the guys on stock bosh kits but i wont risk a £3000+ bike for the sake of getting to my off road spots a few mins faster

once i am there i get the keys off the other people and turn it up to what i need ( 2x 8kw max controlers and 2x 6kw max motors )
I didn't realise that limiting the bike just by a switch wouldn't make it road legal so thanks for that, I agree that you'd have to be pretty damn unlucky to get pulled up and done when you're sticking to the rules, are you running front hub motor aswell then? You must have to limit the front hub to avoid wheelspin surely?

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by DRAV » Aug 17 2017 2:36pm

I'd like opinions/suggestions for my ideas/parts etc, I know I've not mentioned a budget but thats because im new to the ebike scene and don't really know what the good solid reliable parts cost yet apart from the nyx frame kit which looks amazing, looks very well designed and built, and the battery capacity looks huge compared to other frames and is lightweight, I think it's around £1500 to my door for the nyx so it's very expensive!

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by zackclark70 » Aug 17 2017 2:56pm

i am running a twin motor mid drive with highly modded cyclone motors run on the left side of the wheel ( i dont think anyone else has had the power levels i get from cyclone motors ) 72-84v at 80A on each motor just over 3000 miles since the mods and still running awesome

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by LockH » Aug 17 2017 4:44pm

Here's watt ya might like:


"High powered" enough for ya?

:lol:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
(Ebikers Anonymous - Where we're all miserable failures, but the parties are hilarious...)

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by zackclark70 » Aug 17 2017 5:56pm

looks about the same power/torque as my offroad bike have to have the soft start all the way on or it flips lmao

got to love a bike that will flip you off the back even when you are right forward on the bike its like that kids toy buckaroo

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by LockH » Aug 17 2017 6:36pm

Hehe... MY first electric two-wheeler was w/a chain-driven rear wheel w/a nominal 450W motor. Wasn't TOO hard to lift the front tire/wheel just by leaning back and squeezing that little "GO" button. BIG fan of front-wheel drive now. :wink:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
(Ebikers Anonymous - Where we're all miserable failures, but the parties are hilarious...)

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by zackclark70 » Aug 17 2017 6:42pm

LockH wrote:Hehe... MY first electric two-wheeler was w/a chain-driven rear wheel w/a nominal 450W motor. Wasn't TOO hard to lift the front tire/wheel just by leaning back and squeezing that little "GO" button. BIG fan of front-wheel drive now. :wink:
i have to lean forward way over the handle bars not to lift the wheel for fast takeoffs i think it would be crazy to have that much power on the front wheel

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by LockH » Aug 17 2017 7:28pm

zackclark70 wrote:
LockH wrote:Hehe... MY first electric two-wheeler was w/a chain-driven rear wheel w/a nominal 450W motor. Wasn't TOO hard to lift the front tire/wheel just by leaning back and squeezing that little "GO" button. BIG fan of front-wheel drive now. :wink:
i have to lean forward way over the handle bars not to lift the wheel for fast takeoffs i think it would be crazy to have that much power on the front wheel
CORRECTION: I believe you meant "on the back wheel". Correct?
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
(Ebikers Anonymous - Where we're all miserable failures, but the parties are hilarious...)

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by zackclark70 » Aug 17 2017 8:28pm

LockH wrote:
zackclark70 wrote:
LockH wrote:Hehe... MY first electric two-wheeler was w/a chain-driven rear wheel w/a nominal 450W motor. Wasn't TOO hard to lift the front tire/wheel just by leaning back and squeezing that little "GO" button. BIG fan of front-wheel drive now. :wink:
i have to lean forward way over the handle bars not to lift the wheel for fast takeoffs i think it would be crazy to have that much power on the front wheel
CORRECTION: I believe you meant "on the back wheel". Correct?
back wheel power only for me i had a go on a 3kw fwd and it was to sketchy on my rwd it might try and flip you off if your an idiot but its far less sketchy

( as long as you have the throttle ramping rate low its fine its just crazy fast starts that are a pain and you have to be careful out of corners as lifting the wheel is bad lol )

now fwd on one of those drift trikes would be insane fun lol

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by markz » Aug 18 2017 1:42am

If you are in London England, rather then London Ontario Canada
I would have a serious thought on the NYX frame, just because it does not look like a tradition bicycle.
You will probably get shit tons of glances.
From what I have read, lots of Englanders are paranoid about being "Legal" (Whatever THAT means!) and to be legal they have to go lower then even a wimpy ass illegal 500W motor on a traditional looking bicycle. 250W being the legal limit if my memory serves me right.

Another option, to have an appearance of an absolute bicycle is to buy a full suspension brand name bike like a Rocky Mountain, Specialized, Giant, Gary Fisher/Trek, Jamis install a rear motor and a pannier bag setup to hide it, or a black mid drive and black dolphin battery.

Just something to keep in mind. In Canada its all pretty lax here, and I wouldnt buy the NYX just because it looks too much NOT LIKE A BICYCLE, just by a glancing eye. In my mind it would cause too much hassle, too many questions from curious bystandards.

The NYX is a cool frame!

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by zackclark70 » Aug 18 2017 8:59am

markz wrote:If you are in London England, rather then London Ontario Canada
I would have a serious thought on the NYX frame, just because it does not look like a tradition bicycle.
You will probably get shit tons of glances.
From what I have read, lots of Englanders are paranoid about being "Legal" (Whatever THAT means!) and to be legal they have to go lower then even a wimpy ass illegal 500W motor on a traditional looking bicycle. 250W being the legal limit if my memory serves me right.

Another option, to have an appearance of an absolute bicycle is to buy a full suspension brand name bike like a Rocky Mountain, Specialized, Giant, Gary Fisher/Trek, Jamis install a rear motor and a pannier bag setup to hide it, or a black mid drive and black dolphin battery.

Just something to keep in mind. In Canada its all pretty lax here, and I wouldnt buy the NYX just because it looks too much NOT LIKE A BICYCLE, just by a glancing eye. In my mind it would cause too much hassle, too many questions from curious bystandards.

The NYX is a cool frame!
its because if they catch you they could potentially get you for
no tax
no insurance
no licence
no mot
no motorbike approved helmet
no indicators
no brake lights
no dot approved tyres
no dot approved breaks
no type approval

that is if you stop if you run they can get you on another 10+ laws :/

and probably others that i cant remember off the top of my head best case you get a slap on the wrist worst case they take the bike you get a driving ban and a big fine

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Re: IN NEED OF YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS

Post by DRAV » Aug 18 2017 9:20am

Forgive me for saying but alot of comments seem to be against a radical looking bike with high power & full offroad capabilities due to the fact that the fuzz (police) may want a chat with me once in a while, for me im prepared to acknowledge the fact they might want to pull me up and nose about but again if im not being naughty speeding etc when on the public roads then I shouldn't have anything to really worry about? Or am I being naive?

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