Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu version

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qwerkus   100 W

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Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu version

Post by qwerkus » Sep 01 2017 4:36pm

Hello,

I'm looking for a geared rear hub motor as lightweight as possible, preferably <2Kg. 36V, 250-500W, with freewheel cassette and disc brake mount. Available in or ship to europe. Here is what I gathered so far:
- Bafang seems too heavy.
- I read a lot about cute motors here but cannot find them in the eu (if someone knows a link?).
- I found this one, from Keyde: http://www.keyde.com/en/Product/motor/R ... 7/116.html
Looks promising [1:13.5 Reduction!], a lot like the cute motors actually, though they quoted me for over 200€.
- The 2 Speed Xiongda seems promising, but too heavy for my build, and expensive too.
- What other options are there ?

Thank you for your help,

qwerkus   100 W

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu vers

Post by qwerkus » Sep 03 2017 2:19pm

Bump. Any feedback here, especially on the keyde motor, would be really helpful. I read some years ago, they had serious reliability issue. Have those been sorted out ?

ScooterMan101   1 MW

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu vers

Post by ScooterMan101 » Sep 03 2017 3:17pm

For those Spec's and Requirements, what many people get is the Q100c CST , and rest of the kit from ... bmsbattery.com

https://bmsbattery.com/

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/614-q1 ... e-kit.html ( you would have to contact them and make sure the kit has the HiGo/Waterproof Connectors at bottom of page where there is a box to state what wheel size, also state not to ship until they make sure they send the kit with waterproof connectors)

Look up Light weight Road Q100, and other threads on the Q100 or Q128 . ( Q128 is heavier and more power than EU Reg's )

I think now you can get the Q100c CST and Display/Controller/Throttle/ etc. with waterproof ( HiGo ) Connectors.

Be sure to have all that you want before you order, prices on the parts are cheep, shipping is expensive.
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

qwerkus   100 W

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu vers

Post by qwerkus » Sep 03 2017 5:38pm

ScooterMan101 wrote:For those Spec's and Requirements, what many people get is the Q100c CST , and rest of the kit from ... bmsbattery.com

https://bmsbattery.com/

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/614-q1 ... e-kit.html ( you would have to contact them and make sure the kit has the HiGo/Waterproof Connectors at bottom of page where there is a box to state what wheel size, also state not to ship until they make sure they send the kit with waterproof connectors)

Look up Light weight Road Q100, and other threads on the Q100 or Q128 . ( Q128 is heavier and more power than EU Reg's )

I think now you can get the Q100c CST and Display/Controller/Throttle/ etc. with waterproof ( HiGo ) Connectors.

Be sure to have all that you want before you order, prices on the parts are cheep, shipping is expensive.
Thank you for your reply. Very helpful! Good thinking about HiGo connectors - I would never have guessed that one. The Q128 is definitely too heavy for my build, but the q100c seems great! One thing that bothers me is the huge controller (and it's cable-mess). Any chance to git a lighter controller, or an integrated one, like the keyde design ?

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu vers

Post by ScooterMan101 » Sep 04 2017 1:56am

The little 36 or 48 volt controllers that they sell should be very small, I have a 36 volt one and it is the smallest controller I have seen, I have a 48 volt controller made by Kuntang / Kuntung and it is the same size. You can hide it in a water bottle . People here on E.S. say that the Q100c or Q 128 c ( and all the Q motors ) Do , Not , work well with other controllers.
With HiGo / or as they might call them , Waterproof connectors there will be very little wiring mess compared to the older standard multi wires/connectors.
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

d8veh   100 GW

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu vers

Post by d8veh » Sep 04 2017 4:59am

Xiongda make a sensorless 1.4kg rear motor that's quite powerful. They even sell it in 48v versions. They provide a Lishui controller for it with an LCD. I don't know whether the motor will work with any high speed sensorless controller. The whole system doesn't cost much - $175 for motor, controller, LCD, throttle, PAS and shipping.

There are a couple of minor negatives. There's a 1 second delay in starting with the throttle or PAS because the sensorless controller has to figure out the correct timing. There's a little bit of drag when freewheeling. You don't notice that when riding and it's no problem if you keep the power on, but you can see it when you spin the wheel off the ground by hand. Mine is still new. Maybe it goes away with time, but it might be something to do with the extra reduction ratio to get it so small.

My complete bike using this motor with 36v 6Ah battery weighs 13kg.

You can order it directly from Xiongda by email. It's the YTW-06 motor. Bonnie@xiongdamotor.com.cn

Xiongda are exceptionally good with their after sales support. I can't recommend them highly enough. If you ever need them, spare parts cost next to nothing even well after the warranty has expired.

qwerkus   100 W

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu vers

Post by qwerkus » Sep 04 2017 5:12am

d8veh wrote:Xiongda make a sensorless 1.4kg rear motor that's quite powerful. They even sell it in 48v versions. They provide a Lishui controller for it with an LCD. I don't know whether the motor will work with any high speed sensorless controller. The whole system doesn't cost much - $175 for motor, controller, LCD, throttle, PAS and shipping.

There are a couple of minor negatives. There's a 1 second delay in starting with the throttle or PAS because the sensorless controller has to figure out the correct timing. There's a little bit of drag when freewheeling. You don't notice that when riding and it's no problem if you keep the power on, but you can see it when you spin the wheel off the ground by hand. Mine is still new. Maybe it goes away with time, but it might be something to do with the extra reduction ratio to get it so small.

My complete bike using this motor with 36v 6Ah battery weighs 13kg.

You can order it directly from Xiongda by email. It's the YTW-06 motor. Bonnie@xiongdamotor.com.cn

Xiongda are exceptionally good with their after sales support. I can't recommend them highly enough. If you ever need them, spare parts cost next to nothing even well after the warranty has expired.
Thank you for your reply; I actually pm'd you for details about your 13Kg build, but posting here is even better, so other people can learn from it. $175 including shipping beats everything I've seen until now.
- Do you have a link with fotos of the setup ? A drawing of the motor would be nice, to see if it fits into my 137mm fork.
- Is that Lishui controller sine wave capable ? Read a lot of good things about noise reduce through sine wave signals and would really like to incorporate them.
- Drag on the other hand is a real downer. I more of the sensitive type, and even removed my shimano front hub dynamo because of the drag. Do you think one could improve it by changing the oil / grease ?

Thank you for your help,

Felix

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu vers

Post by d8veh » Sep 04 2017 5:45pm

here's the drawings and other info:
YTW-06 rear drg.pdf
(60.28 KiB) Downloaded 190 times
YTW-06 front drg.pdf
(55.44 KiB) Downloaded 109 times
YTW-06 power.pdf
(100.68 KiB) Downloaded 170 times
Attachments
Xiongdajpg.jpg

qwerkus   100 W

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu vers

Post by qwerkus » Sep 05 2017 5:19am

d8veh wrote:here's the drawings and other info:
Thank you very much: very helpful!
I asked Bonnie for a quote, but she told me they have production delays, and I would have to wait 20 days. Too bad...
Also, she send me details about the controller: it also requires a PAS and brake sensors. Now I'm a bit confused: you said it's a sensorless motor. What's your experience about it ?

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu vers

Post by d8veh » Sep 05 2017 5:31am

qwerkus wrote:
d8veh wrote:here's the drawings and other info:
Thank you very much: very helpful!
I asked Bonnie for a quote, but she told me they have production delays, and I would have to wait 20 days. Too bad...
Also, she send me details about the controller: it also requires a PAS and brake sensors. Now I'm a bit confused: you said it's a sensorless motor. What's your experience about it ?
Sensorless means no position-sensing hall sensors in the motor. I don't have brake sensors on mine. PAS and throttle are ptional too, but I'd recommend fitting the PAS. In most of Europe, the throttle has to be limited to 6km/h. I think you can make it like that in the LCD settings, but that makes it a bit of a waste of space.

qwerkus   100 W

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu vers

Post by qwerkus » Sep 07 2017 10:14am

d8veh wrote:Sensorless means no position-sensing hall sensors in the motor. I don't have brake sensors on mine. PAS and throttle are ptional too, but I'd recommend fitting the PAS. In most of Europe, the throttle has to be limited to 6km/h. I think you can make it like that in the LCD settings, but that makes it a bit of a waste of space.
Thank you for clearing that one up. Which version of the YTW-06 would you recommend ? Bonnie says the 48V is slightly lighter and more efficient than the 36V version, because of smaller wire diameter and higher voltage. Yet I want the battery as lightweight as possible, and 48V system are just huge. I'm not interested in high speeds, but I need the torque when hauling my trailer.

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu vers

Post by d8veh » Sep 07 2017 5:52pm

Mine's 36v and only 11 amps. It still gives a fair amount of torque for such a small motor - similar to the OEM 250w hub-motored ebikes. 48v would obviously give more power. I guess it boils down to how much torque you need. Mine has a 20 cell 6Ah battery that weighs 1kg. A 26 cell 48v battery would still be less than 1.5kg, or a 39 cell one would be 9Ah and 2kg.

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu vers

Post by docw009 » Sep 08 2017 10:37am

Hi, dv8eh, I got a quote from Bonnie. They cost a bit more shipped to USA. More like $250 with all the sensors/LCD. I don't need one, but I got the batteries/bikes already.

I'm thinking 36V for a front drive on a 26" bike, but also think about a 20" wheel. I should ask Bonnie if they make a higher speed wind for smaller rims. Does this motor make sense to you for a smaller rim and maybe 18 mph?

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu vers

Post by d8veh » Sep 10 2017 5:22am

docw009 wrote:Hi, dv8eh, I got a quote from Bonnie. They cost a bit more shipped to USA. More like $250 with all the sensors/LCD. I don't need one, but I got the batteries/bikes already.

I'm thinking 36V for a front drive on a 26" bike, but also think about a 20" wheel. I should ask Bonnie if they make a higher speed wind for smaller rims. Does this motor make sense to you for a smaller rim and maybe 18 mph?
I don't know what speed versions they make, but you could run the 36v one at 48v in a 20" wheel. That would max out at about 20 mph. Basically, any 36v motor in a 26" wheel will go at the same road speed when run at 48v in a 20" wheel because the speed ratio is 20÷26×4÷3 = 1.02

qwerkus   100 W

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu vers

Post by qwerkus » Sep 11 2017 5:31pm

Well, it appears there is practically no torque difference between the 36v and the 48v version of the motor, so I went with the 36v version because of the smaller electronics and the smaller battery. The only true advantage if can see of 48v for such a small motor would be lower amps = less heat, and if you have a big battery pack, longer cell lifetime.

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu version

Post by FarthingPenny » Mar 23 2018 10:04am

Has anyone taken a YTW-06 apart`and can post a description or photos. Specifically I need to lock the internal freewheel because I want to reverse the rotation to use it a midmotor. I think Bonnie may not know.

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu version

Post by zro-1 » Mar 23 2018 6:57pm

I wanted to note that the little Xiongda YTW-06 now has hall sensors, so there isn't a delayed start any more. I started a thread for the motor here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=93087 and I'll be installing one in my bike next week and I'll be documenting my experience with it. Here's my build thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=91309
~01~

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu version

Post by qwerkus » Jun 26 2018 5:27pm

If anyone is interested, there is a thread about this motor in a german forum, with many details, including internals:

Image

It appears that the freewheel is actually located INSIDE THE ROTOR, which means when you're coasting, you're still driving the 2 stage reduction gears. Given that amount of drag, I'd suggest modifying the rotor to remove the freewheel, and try the motor with regen enabled. Should be doable - don't know why Xiongda told me it's impossible. Anyone up to it ?

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Re: Lightweight rear hub motor recommendation 2017 - eu version

Post by neptronix » Oct 19 2018 4:46pm

FYI, i got burned BAD on a xiongda YTW-06.. check this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=96895
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

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