LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

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DrkAngel   100 GW

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LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

Post by DrkAngel » Sep 04 2017 12:05pm

.
...
Shipped from USA (made in China)
Updated info - NOS New Old Stock - some dated 10/2013
Review - "Good old stock Batteries dated 10/2013 capacity tested as advertised good value"


All gone - NEW Box of 60 Fullriver LiFePO4 32700 3.2V 5400mAh Rechargeable Batteries 32650
$115 - 1036Wh = $111/kWh

Looks reasonable for:
12s5p = 38.4V 27Ah (36V) - eBike
Balance charger capable as 2 - 6s5p
4s15p = 12V 81Ah (12.8V) - powerwall

NEW Box of 80 Fullriver LiFePO4 26650 3.2V 3300mAh Rechargeable Batteries
$100 - 844Wh = $118.48/kWh
Reasonable for:
8s10p = 25.6V 33Ah (24V)
Balance charge as 2 - 4s10p or 8s10p w/iMax B8 or similar
4s20p = 12V 66Ah (12.8V) - powerwall

Bulk charging LiFePO4 is somewhat ... tricky. Similar to SLA, it requires a higher "saturation" charge with a "charge termination" function.

Remember ... Lithium-iron is nearly twice the size of Lithium-ion for the same capacity.
.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Oct 24 2019 8:51am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver" Bulk Purchase-Quantity

Post by tanstaafl » Sep 06 2017 8:50pm

I bought some batteries from the same seller and found him to be reliable. My battery packs are big and heavy, but they've tested out at rated capacity and I haven't had any problems so far. The ones I got were already connected in 7p batteries and I just had to put them together in series for a 20s 7p (60v nominal) pack that lasts me a whole week per charge.

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver" Bulk Purchase-Quantity

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 05 2018 10:01am

3300mAh cells still available.
Decided to purchase a case for small project.
I will test and rate cells for posting up here.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver" Bulk Purchase-Quantity

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 15 2018 10:55am

Delivery was estimated at 4-6weeks, but just got UPS tracking for delivery at 10 days from purchase.
Seller accepted "make offer" of $70 +$20.19 shipping.

NEW Box of 80 Fullriver LiFePO4 26650 3.2V 3300mAh Rechargeable Batteries
$90 - 844Wh = $106.64/kWh

Yeah ... delivery today!
Just getting over the "bad" flu and need some indoor prepping time to "build up" before facing the cold-wet outdoors.
Build up my health and enthusiasm for the cold and wet.

Bad Flu
Day 1 - Slight lousy-achy feeling turns into cold shivering >> shakes
Day 2 - Alternating Sweats and Shivers - Stayed in bed and was unable to fully sleep or wake
(Put up "Closed Got Flu" sign on store door)
Day 3 - Alternating Sweats and Shivers - Stayed in bed and was unable to fully sleep or wake
Day 4 - finally able to sleep a few hours at a time - coughed for 1st time and throat felt torn and raw
Day 5 - finally able to get out of bed and feel brain function returning but throat feels torn and raw with any cough
Day 6 - Feeling more human
(Store sign warns "Got Flue Enter at own risk")
Day 7 - coughing only tears at throat slightly now, but produces slimy sputum
Day 8 - Yeah ... today, Flu seems gone with very occasional cough - sign still posted!

Survival kit
Saline nasal spray with small dose of vinegar added - cleans sinuses and tear ducts nicely
Chicken bouillon broth with garlic and cayenne pepper added
TheraFlu DayTime and NightTime
Variety of Chicken and various other soups
Large quantities of "Low Calorie Sparkling Lemonade"
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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DrkAngel   100 GW

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver" Bulk Purchase-Quantity

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 16 2018 2:02am

80 - 26650 LiFe cells arrived.
Sorted cells by received voltage
2 - cells near 3.40V - charge-discharge testing iMax B8s 1 Blue + 1 Black
8 cells near 3.33V
50 cells between 3.330V >> 3.327V - 1 testing on iMax B6
10 cells between 3.318V >> 3.324V
10 cells near 3.30V 3.310V
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver" Bulk Purchase-Quantity

Post by Hapwood2002 » Mar 17 2018 6:09pm

I purchased 10 Fullriver, lifepo4, 26650, 3300 mah to test. I've been somewhat disappointed. 3 of the 10 have tested below 2000 mah of capacity. I'm discharging at .5 A
Also, these cells are noticeable warm while discharging. All three show internal resistance of 80 or higher.

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver" Bulk Purchase-Quantity

Post by DrkAngel » Mar 18 2018 2:01am

Similarly disappointed with the Fullriver LiFe.
Preliminary iMax cycle test (3.6V >> 2.0V) proved out near 2000mAh. (3.65V is recommended charge)
Experimented with LiFe charge 3.6V >> LiIo discharge 3.0V with poor results.
Accidentally ran a cycle at LiIo 3.0V >> 4.10 and got 3000+ mAh!

.
.........
LiFePO4 Capacity "Map" Test


Image

Will connect as 4s20p for cycle testing via inverter, through VAWAh meter.
Cycling cells multiple times might enhance-stabilize capacity-performance?
Will allow differing charge-discharge rates and voltages.
Will bulk charge with MeanWell and monitor banks with 6s volt meter.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

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DrkAngel   100 GW

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver" Bulk Purchase-Quantity

Post by DrkAngel » Sep 30 2019 7:05am

Massive quantity available at less than 10 cents each!
$1500 plus freight shipping from Texas for 12,000+ cells.

(Huge Lot of 12710) Fullriver LiFePO4 26650 3.2V 3300mAh Rechargeable Batteries - $1499.97 + shipping

Rated as poor quality, by myself and others, 2 years ago!
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

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Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

Post by DrkAngel » Oct 24 2019 8:46am

Alarmhookups off-ebay store has cells at 15¢ each, shipping might double that.
I bought a full case, 16 boxes of 10 for $24 + $20 shipping ... something to play with?

Lots of batteries, some new, some recycled. See - BatteryHookup.com
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

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john61ct   100 MW

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

Post by john61ct » Oct 24 2019 11:36am

You mean same Full River cells as in your OP?

Please let us know the residual capacity on yours if you test for that, otherwise ballpark functionality for production use in a sub-1C rate application

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

Post by DrkAngel » Oct 24 2019 3:00pm

Fullriver 26650FE 3300mAh specs

Specifications:

Manufacturer: Guangzhou Fullriver Battery New Technology Co., Ltd.
Model: 26650Fe
Nominal Voltage: 3.2 - 3.3 V
Nominal Capacity: 3300 mAh
Energy density: 117.33 wh/kg
Charging current: 3.3 A Max.
Discharging current: 9.9A continuous
Operating Temperature:
Charging: 0° to 45°C
Discharging: -20° to 60°C
Cycle Performance:
>2000 (80% of initial capacity at 0.2C rate, IEC Standard)
2 times more than NiMH and 10 times more than SLA
Dimensions (DxH): 26.21mm (1.03") x 65.66 mm (2.58")
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

Post by john61ct » Oct 24 2019 3:28pm

What would these be useful for, besides as physical placeholders for design, or equipment testing purposes?

> ALL OF THE CELLS WE TESTED HAD LOW VOLTAGE (0.1-0.2V) BUT THEY ALL TOOK A CHARGE. WHEN THESE WERE FRESH THEY TESTED 3300MAH BUT OUR TESTS ONLY REVEALED 800MAH ON THE FIRST CYCLE WHEN WE TESTED A CASE OF 80 CELLS. THE CAPACITY DID INCREASE ON OUR BATCH TEST FOR THE 2ND AND 3RD CYCLES SLIGHTLY. WE DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY OR TIME TO CYCLE THESE 10-20 TIMES EACH TO SEE IF THEY RECOVER ANYMORE.

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

Post by john61ct » Oct 24 2019 3:29pm

Is that generally a trustworthy vendor?

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

Post by john61ct » Oct 24 2019 3:48pm

Any known-good trustworthy sources for factory-fresh brand-new A-grade of Full River LFP cells?

Opinions welcome as to how they compare to other cheaper brands like

K2
Varicore
X-Battery

Assuming factory-fresh brand-new A-grade from trustworthy sources.

A123/Valence at the top.

And those big Headways, how do they measure up for longevity?

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

Post by DrkAngel » Oct 27 2019 1:03am

FullRiver cells coming in tomorrow.
Even if I only get 1000mAh from these cells ...
160 x 3.2V x 1000mAh = .5120 kWh
That is still < $90 per kWh (delivered)

1. Will test delivered voltage of each cell - reputed to be below minimum (< 2.5V) - label each cell voltage - segregate by voltage
2. Rig iMax for 1A - 1 min charge through copper foiled magnets and apply brief charge to each cell as confirmation of accepting charge - label each cell voltage
3. Will charge each cell to a "base charge" of 3.20V, will charge at 1A for time required (to be determined by testing charge time required on lowest & highest V cells) will configure 2 iMax chargers for 1A NiMh charge for 5(?) min, quick swap with copper foiled magnet connections
4. let set several days to determine any self-discharge
5. rather than individual capacity testing, I will likely combine as 4s40p and bulk charge at 4 x 3.65V = 14.6V, monitoring each bank and adjusting bank cell count to equalize bank charging voltage, adjusting as necessary ...
6. test discharge of 2 x 60w 120V bulbs through inverter with watt meter ~ 12V 10Ah capacity per hour discharge (while monitoring bank voltages) - 3-4hour run time before inverter starts low voltage whine (can add 120V AC clock to time discharge till inverter LVC, to compare unattended multiple cycles. Have S-150-15 MeanWells so I can run 10A charge-discharge cycles

Will likely use as powerwall or solar storage (Solar panel's "12V" SLA charger has reasonable voltage for 4s LiFePO4) - additional evening lights on plants to continue flowering, many vegetables discontinue flowering if less than 12 hours daylight.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

Post by DrkAngel » Oct 30 2019 11:36am

Received 160 ct cells.
So far, all tested near .1V
Applying 153mWh (1 Amp NiCd 10min) to each and will segregate by retained voltage after setting 1 day, as preliminary condition test.
Rated at 1C charge 3C discharge, so will charge at 1Amp = 1C, the anticipated actual capacity.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 02 2019 7:58am

Processing at .5A. Had some cells cycle at 2000mAh+. (higher Amp cycling proved extremely poor!)
1 metered 2500mAh+ charge and discharge.
Will be cycling in batches of 10p using copper adhesive foil wrapped magnets.
I have 2 iMax B8s with 5A capability so should be able to cycle test 20 cells per day.

1. Preliminary test is 10 min charge at 1 Amp to "initialize" empty cells, check for heat , then label with voltage and check for self-discharge.
2. Bulk charge at .5A to "full"
3. Discharge to compare mAh
4. Full charge repeat and compare required mAh
5. Separate and monitor for self-discharge over extended period
... Combine as 4s50p for Solar storage-cycling?
Last edited by DrkAngel on Nov 02 2019 4:31pm, edited 2 times in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

Post by john61ct » Nov 02 2019 9:56am

If actual capacity is 60% of rated, doesn't that signal lifespan will be very limited?

Would you use one of the solder-free / weldless methods for pack assembly to enable easy swapping out of dead cells?

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 02 2019 4:48pm

I have found that lifespan deteriorates evenly if, C rate is based on actual capacity.
2000mAh cell might deteriorate .01% per cycle at 2A. = 1C
50% 1000mAh cell might deteriorate .04% per cycle at 2A (2C) but only .01% at 1A (1C).

Maintaining same original charge\discharge rate produces accelerated deterioration, but basing and limiting C rate on actual capacity provides a steady predictable deterioration.

Keeping same discharge\charge Amps as cells deteriorate produces accelerating>>exponential deterioration.

If tasked lightly deterioration can be minimal, even from severely reduced capacity cells.

And yes, I am a proud proponent of overly large battery packs!
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

Post by john61ct » Nov 02 2019 5:14pm

Me too, 180Ah is IMO a very small bank.

When one reaches 80% SoH I start looking to replace and scrap it.

Certainly never imagined would be worth selling past 70%, would consider that scamming no-nothing noobs.

But hey I guess I'll try eBay from now on, just be honest in the description.

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 02 2019 7:16pm

john61ct wrote:
Nov 02 2019 5:14pm
Me too, 180Ah is IMO a very small bank.

When one reaches 80% SoH I start looking to replace and scrap it.
Especially with a power bank ...
180Ah @ 80% = 144Ah bank .. scrap it? Why not buy a 90Ah, add it and have a 234Ah bank for half the price, and longer life, of a new 180Ah?
Deterioration of old cells slowed and new cells more lightly tasked for longer service life!
Experience indicates new and old cells in parallel deteriorate an equal percentage, rather than equal mAh, with cycling.
Gently tasked cells in parallel deteriorate equally and predicatively!
Last edited by DrkAngel on Nov 02 2019 8:40pm, edited 1 time in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

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Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

Post by john61ct » Nov 02 2019 8:24pm

Limited space / weight, risk-averse owners in mission-critical use cases, travel to primitive distant locations. . .

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 03 2019 7:30am

Cycling individual cells and have many over 2500mAh and several @ 3000mAh+.
Looking good!
Problem with LiFePO4 is monitoring for self-discharge. Voltage is very level from ~3.3V-3.2V and similar to SLA, static voltage seems to "idle" high, making precise voltage-capacity monitoring, confusing-problematic?
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver 3300mAh" rejects - 15¢ each +shipping

Post by john61ct » Nov 03 2019 9:37am

The only real accurate SoC% measure is precisely timed CC load draw down to 0% (0.5C rate down to 2.99V for me). I do not rely on mAh counters for benchmarking, just guiding production usage.

So first A. get Full capacity (SoH%), then fill back to same point, your conditions in this case sit for X hours/days, then B. get remaining capacity to compare.


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Re: LiFePO4 "FullRiver" Bulk Purchase-Quantity

Post by Balmorhea » Nov 19 2019 2:03am

DrkAngel wrote:
Sep 30 2019 7:05am
Massive quantity available at less than 10 cents each!
$1500 plus freight shipping from Texas for 12,000+ cells.
A close friend of mine bought these for quite a bit less than that, and went to pick them up himself. They vary from a couple of millivolts per cell up to 3.3V, with the cells in each case displaying mostly matching voltage.

Even the "dead" ones we have tested so far are taking a charge and carrying a load surprisingly well. No specific measurements yet.

It's weird to be building packs that cost more in nickel strip than they do in lithium cells. Very soon I'll be using a 16S 9P pack in one of my bikes to see how it performs.

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