Ebike brakes

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
s4turn   1 W

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Re: Ebike brakes

Post by s4turn » Oct 29 2017 7:15am

Cephalotus wrote:
s4turn wrote:Yes they were first choice, but the online retailer can’t even tell me when they are due for stock :(
Okay, they are easily available over here.

There are two Versions, one the opens a contact while braking and the other Closes the contact while braking. The contact is inside the parted brake levers. The contact "happens" before the braking force which is good for regenerative braking.

As a simple or interim solution you can buy reed contacts and a small magnet and glue both to your brakes. This is how usual brakes are modified for a BionX upgrade for example.
I think mine is the higo opener switch?
If I press the switch then it doesn’t cut the motor
If it’s in its retracted position the motor cut is enabled
JDMopar wrote:https://www.merlincycles.com/magura-mt5 ... KCEALw_wcB

Maybe this is helpful? Possibly still expensive for you.
That’s not a bad price !
I assume a trusted retailer ?

s4turn   1 W

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Re: Ebike brakes

Post by s4turn » Oct 29 2017 7:20am

Voltron wrote:Re. two pin to three pin connector, most cutoffs use a simple switch with two wires, and the Bafang connectors only have metal in two of three holes for the brake ones. Those you can clip off and just make your own connector or hard wire it.

But some systems actually use a three wire Hall sensor setup, so you can't just do the two wire cross hookup. Some of the Izips are like that... such a giant PITA to diagnose, as it wants a specific voltage range coming in from the brakes, so you can't just disconnect the cutoffs to test the system...it won't run with zero voltage on the brake wires, making it crazy hard to figure out what component is actually keeping the system from running.
I see Luna cycles has a deore m615 with bafang cut offs
So if the bafang cutoff brakes have 3 pins, you are saying only 2 are connected ? (I may have read that wrong)

I’m actually considering the mt5e, Slx or deore brakes
Can’t find any decent priced tektro ebrake
I also want to upgrade my current brakes too, otherwise id just get one of those switches
Would be nice to have it integrated as my first choice

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Ebike brakes

Post by teklektik » Oct 29 2017 10:13am

ScorpionKing wrote:I am also exploring whether or not I really need an E-Brake on my Trike. This is my first build and I am using a Mac 10T geared hub motor. I have oversized hydraulic Shimano brakes and rotors up front on my tadpole Trike and I am used to stopping at higher speeds. So I wonder if I really need a switch.
V's post above goes directly to this question. Important stuff.
Voltron wrote:But re. cutoff brakes or a bar mounted cutoff switch in general, don't forget they are there for when things go wrong and the motor suddenly jumps to full power from a shorted throttle or something... it's not just for normal stopping, it's your emergency safety override.
There are different schools of thought here - I'm belong to the "it's gotta have a kill switch" faction. This covers more failure cases than relying on ebrakes alone and doesn't suffer the problems of integrating a switching mechanism into brake levers. Opening this connection shuts off processor power so the controller simply goes dead regardless of what failure has occurred.

Controllers generally have a power or 'ignition' wire. Just run this up to the bars with a toggle or latching switch and you're done. The voltage is high but the current is low so arcing is not much of an issue. Since this is something you're going to want to hit in an emergency, ideally you want the switch reachable by thumb without releasing the grip - to which you will likely be clinging for dear life.

My first bike didn't have PAS for a couple of years and so I rode without ebrakes with no issue, relying for safety on the kill switch. The ebrakes were a retrofit that came with adding PAS. The next bike was designed from the outset with PAS but got a kill switch as a matter of course. Here's a kill switch using a toggle mounted on a Magura throttle with a bit of aluminum scrap. The switch is positioned to be aligned with the thumb after zeroing the throttle (presumably to no avail).
diyKillSwitch.jpg
diyKillSwitch.jpg (38.43 KiB) Viewed 1612 times
  • To put runaway failure modes in focus:
    Although shorts of exactly the proper throttle wires are unlikely, faulty connections due to loose pins, vibration, or corrosion are not. The most common runaway cause is simply losing the throttle GND connection. This allows the throttle +5v wire to immediately pull the throttle signal wire up to 5V with an accompanying wide open throttle response from the controller. This particular failure mode is why many controllers have a 'throttle fault' feature that shuts down the controller if the throttle signal exceeds the 'usual' throttle max of about 4V - if your controller has the feature, enable it.
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JDMopar   100 mW

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Re: Ebike brakes

Post by JDMopar » Oct 29 2017 10:37am

s4turn wrote:
JDMopar wrote:https://www.merlincycles.com/magura-mt5 ... KCEALw_wcB

Maybe this is helpful? Possibly still expensive for you.
That’s not a bad price !
I assume a trusted retailer ?
I think so! All the reviews look very good, but they're UK based so probably never a site I'd purchase from being from the U.S. But I wouldn't hesitate if they had a good deal on something.

ScorpionKing   1 mW

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Re: Ebike brakes

Post by ScorpionKing » Oct 29 2017 11:20am

I understand Von's post. As an alternative to Magnet and reed switch or the Tripline ( forgive me please if I got the terms or names wrong on the parts) if you are using a 1/2 Twist Throttle with Cruise and three position switch that plugs into a CA3 (cycle analyst) couldn't you just assign the green button or large button as functional E Brake since it is right on the throttle anyway?

Jason

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Ebike brakes

Post by teklektik » Oct 29 2017 11:50am

Will work fine as an ebrake, but not a lot of utility for a MAC. That makes more sense when it invokes regen via ebrakes. For a kill switch you will likely find a toggle or other latching switch a better choice. Accidentally releasing a kill button can cause a surprise as the bike goes to WOT again. But it's far better than nothing at all. :D
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ScorpionKing   1 mW

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Re: Ebike brakes

Post by ScorpionKing » Oct 29 2017 12:16pm

teklektik wrote:Will work fine as an ebrake, but not a lot of utility for a MAC. That makes more sense when it invokes regen via ebrakes. For a kill switch you will likely find a toggle or other latching switch a better choice. Accidentally releasing a kill button can cause a surprise as the bike goes to WOT again. But it's far better than nothing at all. :D

Sorry what does wot mean?

Jason

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Ebike brakes

Post by teklektik » Oct 29 2017 12:48pm

Wide Open Throttle...
-or-
Try this more general solution! :D
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s4turn   1 W

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Re: Ebike brakes

Post by s4turn » Oct 29 2017 1:12pm

just wanting some confirmation here, its early morning here!

I think mine is the higo opener switch?
If I press the switch then it doesn’t cut the motor
If it’s in its retracted position the motor cut is enabled

update: decided against the magura mt5e's, read lots of reviews and threads with people having reliability issues (more around the mt5's)

ordered some shimano's xt m8000 with 203mm discs (icetech)
will either get the tripwire on them or a reed switch/magnet

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Hunza   10 mW

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Re: Ebike brakes

Post by Hunza » Jul 10 2018 3:01am

Together with my Q100H I ordered the BMSBattery 48V11.6Ah Bottle-09 Panasonic Battery Pack, Brake Grips are included but I won't use them.
Image


As to get the controller working with my Magura HS33 rimbrakes I like to order MAGURA Reed switches.

Two types of switches are offered, "opener" and "closer". Which one fits to the controller of the BMSB 48V11.6Ah Bottle-09 Panasonic Battery Pack?

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Hunza   10 mW

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Re: Ebike brakes

Post by Hunza » Jul 11 2018 3:03am

In another forum I have found followings: "you can use a multimeter or continuity tester to determine whether you have a normally closener contact (= circuit is closed when braking) or an opener (= circuit opens when braking)".

So a closener generates a signal when braking, to shut down the E-Bike engine support.

Anybody made it with the Brake Grips of BMSB?
Last edited by Hunza on Jul 19 2018 12:01pm, edited 3 times in total.

miro13car   1 MW

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Re: Ebike brakes

Post by miro13car » Jul 11 2018 7:35am

[quote=ScorpionKing post_id=1330401 time=1509260864 user_id=55767]
I am also exploring whether or not I really need an E-Brake on my Trike. This is my first build and I am using a Mac 10T geared hub motor. I have oversized hydraulic Shimano brakes and rotors up front on my tadpole Trike and I am used to stopping at higher speeds. So I wonder if I really need a switch. If I do tripwire does look interesting.

Jason
[/quote]

grinding pads and discs on ebike at low speeds is ridiculous.
hole virtue of EV of any kind is regen breaking.
on my trips , example 30kms trip I can charge 2Ah on regen.
my pads last for years, 10sends of kilometers.
I use reed switches
of course I grind pads in breaking from high speeds.

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Hunza   10 mW

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Re: Ebike brakes

Post by Hunza » Jul 19 2018 12:07pm

I just tested the BMSB configuration (Bottle 09) received. When I brake with the brake grip it closes the circuit, a signal is given to shut down the E-Bike engine support.

So for my Magura's I need to buy the CLOSENER type of reed switches.
Last edited by Hunza on Jul 20 2018 12:32pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Ebike brakes

Post by MadRhino » Jul 19 2018 2:43pm

Yep. That is the most common. The switch is a ‘normally open momentary switch’ that you can find in a variety of models for 2$

I have purchased an MT5e brake lever for my MT7, to see if I would prefer the integrated switch to an independant regen button. I don’t. The lever switch will be used for brake light, if I keep using it. I liked much better the MT7 lever and I might re-install it next time I need to bleed my brake.
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lionman   100 W

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Re: Ebike brakes

Post by lionman » Jul 22 2018 11:10pm

Thinking of a way to use the mechanical ebrake sensors that you feed the cable through with hydraulic brakes.

I wonder, if you attached a small length of brake cable to the brake lever, and cable tie the sensor to the brake line, you could run the cable through the sensor so when you pull the brake it triggers the sensor and cuts the motor?

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Hunza   10 mW

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Re: Ebike brakes

Post by Hunza » Aug 07 2018 2:30pm

Hunza wrote:
Jul 19 2018 12:07pm
I just tested the BMSB configuration (Bottle 09) received. When I brake with the brake grip it closes the circuit, a signal is given to shut down the E-Bike engine support.

So for my Magura's I need to buy the CLOSENER type of reed switches.
I just installed this closener type (Manufacturer number 0724802) and indeed it works fine with my BMSBattery configuration. Had to cut off the Higo/Julet connectors of the BMSB brake grips and I had to solder them to the reed switches (crimp hose around).

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Re: Ebike brakes

Post by rote » Aug 15 2018 11:39pm

Hi guys,
For me, initially, I could not get the brake cables off my existing levers to fit the typical e-brake levers you get with a China ebike kit; plus, they are pretty big and ugly. So d8veh suggested using the reed switch from a generic speedometer.

This is what I did: viewtopic.php?t=46264 Like it a lot. Works well and got to keep my existing levers.

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