E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
dustNbone   10 kW

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by dustNbone » Nov 27 2017 4:52am

Agreed. Going 40 mph on ice/packed snow in a car generally isn't a great idea. You will be surprised (hopefully not fatally) at how long stopping will take from that speed with compromised traction. Doing it on a bike/trike with zero protection is really not something I think you should aim for. Distance over time/stopping distances are substantially more than halved at 25mph.

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by coinmaster » Nov 27 2017 1:18pm

Alright, how fast would you recommend?
I'm considering using 203mm disc brakes for overkill. Wise or no?
Also considering wide tires for better traction, I want to try not to die in the warmer months as well :P
Although I want to minimize losses to speed and range so maybe not.

I'd like to use a 29' rear wheel but I don't think it will fit on the kmx kit so I'll probably be using a 26' wheel.
i'm going to load that sucker up with as many batteries as will possibly fit under the seat, on the rack, and in the panniers.
/

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by FlightService » Nov 28 2017 3:03pm

What is your goal? Your brakes, in snow and ice, aren't going to be worth much. Your tires will be everything there. Your worse case scenario for brake load will be with clean sticky tires on pristine pavement after they have gotten hot. This isn't what you will be seeing in snow and ice.

Snow, ice and wet, is more about balance and modulation of the brakes with tires that set up for the surface. Raw braking power isn't as important in those conditions.

It will be interesting to see what you come up with.

As far as riding speed, you will figure that out very VERY quickly on your first trip.
Engineer: (n) en·gi·neer \ˌen-jə-ˈnir\ -Someone who does precision guesswork based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge. (See also: wizard, magician, miracle worker)

coinmaster   10 W

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by coinmaster » Nov 28 2017 5:16pm

FlightService wrote:
Nov 28 2017 3:03pm
What is your goal?
I guess the end goal is to have a year-round rock solid reliable car replacement that can get me where I'm going reasonably fast without having to pay for gas and insurance.

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tomjasz   1.21 GW

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by tomjasz » Nov 29 2017 12:56am

MadRhino wrote:
Nov 24 2017 9:47pm


You want weight on the front to ride slippery conditions. That is because yo can control the loss of traction much better on the rear than front. Racing on ice, we are on the handlebar for the entire race. In the snow we are playing a lot with fr and rr balance, but turns are always on the front.
Yup, the added weighted on my front DD and studded tire is my go to ice bike. Townie style flat foot frame and the seat even lowered a bit more is my favored winter bike.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by markz » Dec 30 2017 4:55pm

What do you do on a mtb just after a snowfall when the roads have the compacted snow from all the vehicle tires, and your front tire just goes everywhere?

I have a studded tire on front.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by MadRhino » Dec 30 2017 6:59pm

markz wrote:
Dec 30 2017 4:55pm
What do you do on a mtb just after a snowfall when the roads have the compacted snow from all the vehicle tires, and your front tire just goes everywhere?

I have a studded tire on front.
Well, you have to dance the twist on your bike and trust your tire to regain traction once in a while. :wink:

High knobs mud tires are better, with spikes even better than studs, but those very difficult conditions that we have now are challenging any rider’s skills and confidence. Faster is making it better, if you have the balls.

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markz   100 GW

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by markz » Dec 30 2017 8:09pm

Yeah I power fast and play the throttle game.

air pressure down doesnt help?

Im looking for a fat fork, should help lots with a fat tire up front dont you think?

MadRhino wrote:
Dec 30 2017 6:59pm
markz wrote:
Dec 30 2017 4:55pm
What do you do on a mtb just after a snowfall when the roads have the compacted snow from all the vehicle tires, and your front tire just goes everywhere?

I have a studded tire on front.
Well, you have to dance the twist on your bike and trust your tire to regain traction once in a while. :wink:

High knobs mud tires are better, with spikes even better than studs, but those very difficult conditions that we have now are challenging any rider’s skills and confidence. Faster is making it better, if you have the balls.

Image

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by LewTwo » Dec 30 2017 9:46pm

The more I learn the more obvious the immensity of my ignorance becomes.
Weight Wennie E-Bike https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 3#p1173723
Shaft Drive Grocery Getter https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=90718
...and thanks to Justin!

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by MadRhino » Dec 31 2017 1:55am

Fat tires are floating, they are good on few conditions.

Chains are slow, and can make a costly mess of your bike when they rub or break.

We have to deal with the average. Unless one can have 2 or 3 bikes prepared for various conditions, best is to tune it for the most common state of the streets. I usually use two bikes, keeping my commuter for the most common wet/slushy salted pavement, and my dirt bike tuned for snow/ice.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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tomjasz   1.21 GW

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by tomjasz » Dec 31 2017 2:36pm

markz wrote:
Dec 30 2017 4:55pm
What do you do on a mtb just after a snowfall when the roads have the compacted snow from all the vehicle tires, and your front tire just goes everywhere?

I have a studded tire on front.
I ride my front wheel, heavy MXUS DD, with studs on a flat foot frame. My feet are out runners.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by markz » Jan 01 2018 5:36pm

tomjasz wrote:
Dec 31 2017 2:36pm
My feet are out runners.
Thats what I do to.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by MadRhino » Jan 02 2018 1:40pm

markz wrote:
Jan 01 2018 5:36pm
tomjasz wrote:
Dec 31 2017 2:36pm
My feet are out runners.
Thats what I do to.
Then put back the training wheels on your bike. :mrgreen:
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by markz » Jan 02 2018 5:41pm

I am keeping an eye for a fat fork that can fit my Townie, pretty sure I am gunna have to buy new.

It will be good in 2 ways.
The first, I can use the fat fork to install a rear dd motor with 2.1 tire in the front.
Second, use fat tire in winter where needed, like 10 days out of the year, though today with the big melt slide on the compact but crumbly stuff.

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by LeftieBiker » Dec 06 2018 6:36am

I'm doing some serious Winter riding just because I still need exercise and fresh air when it's 35F outside. My heart isn't very forgiving of the sedentary life. My plan was (and still is) to put together a NOS EZIP Trailz with grippy tires and a windshield, but in the meantime I've put said windshield on my too-fast-for-Winter Magnum Metro. I used a medium sized universal mount motorcycle shield, and if it hadn't been for the usual Chinese hardware issues (like bolts too short by 1mm) it would have been an easy mount. Anyway, I'll be taking a real test ride today in upper thirties weather, bundled up and with heated gloves and insoles, OTG goggles, and two to three layers of clothing. When I started Winter riding in 2013 I remember my water bottle freezing. Now my goal is just to be comfortable down to freezing, at 10MPH.

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by dustNbone » Dec 06 2018 8:12pm

I find if I'm mildly pedaling (being careful not to overdo it and sweat inside my wind shell, my core stays pretty comfortable down to 10 or 15 below freezing. It's just the extremities that need the extra love, socks and gloves are the ticket. I've made some up with nichrome wire and a PWM controller, powered by a 4S 18650 pack. Just waiting for it to get cold enough to actually need them.

As for the bike, it seems to hold up to winter reasonably well. I think the worst part is the chain eating a bunch of salty road crud, I switch to a dry wax type lube in winter which seems to help but it's still needing reapplication every couple of weeks.

The motor (BBS02 with external controller) seems fine, this will be it's fourth winter and it's getting close to 40,000km but the seals seem to keep all the yuck out of the motor itself.

If you stick to 10mph you shouldn't have much to worry about, just practice panic stopping from that speed in slippery conditions. Avoid using the front brake while cornering, but do use it while not cornering because it will be much more effective than the rear due to weight transfer.

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by LeftieBiker » Dec 07 2018 1:22am

I've actually done Winter riding for the last 5 years - just not below freezing since 2013-2014. My circulation is very poor, so my 35F is your 10F. ;-) Here is a photo from last evening's ride:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/nzeQMt3jYkiWD61L9

The last bit of extra protection I needed (after heated gloves and insoles, and one chemical hand warmer in the toe of my left shoe, which is itself wrapped with bubble wrap and inside a rubber, along with the right one) was a light scarf over the portion of my nose that sticks out from my thick balaclava. With that I get goggle fogging when stopped, but my face is nice and warm, and my nose isn't running...

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by miro13car » Dec 07 2018 10:07am

[youtube][/youtube]I have a lot of experience riding in harsh Alberta Canada winter
Studied tires are THE MUST
Norco

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tomjasz   1.21 GW

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by tomjasz » Dec 07 2018 6:09pm

miro13car wrote:
Dec 07 2018 10:07am
[youtube][/youtube]I have a lot of experience riding in harsh Alberta Canada winter
Studied tires are THE MUST
WHEN the roads are packed snow and ice. Lately, MN winters are relatively mild as far as snow and ice. I don't commute or ride on ice except in winters where there are ice and snow packed streets for a month. Studded tires SUCK and get expensive on dry pavement.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by LeftieBiker » Dec 07 2018 6:45pm

I also don't ride when roads are slippery, and Upstate NY is also seeing a lot less persistent snow covering than in the past. The EZIP, when/if I get it done, will have cruiser tires with aggressive tread and kevlar, and I'll run them at a lower pressure in Winter. The Metro has balloon tires with kevlar, and they can be run as low as 24psi. If it snows, though, I'll leave the Metro home until the roads are clear again - usually two days.

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by miro13car » Dec 08 2018 6:12pm

Studied tires saved me from falling many, many times.
No way I could get through ice patches and packed snow on regular knobby tires.
Of course studs get worn out on bare asphalt and concrete, no way I would ride on them in warm months.
I use Schwalbe Winter tires.
Norco

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by craneplaneguy » Dec 08 2018 11:41pm

There's riding in untracked snow, and then there's riding on a snowcovered, tracked up and icy road. The first is pretty reliable in how it will interact with the bike. The second is wildly unpredictable. I've been doing both the last few days, fat bike, very low pressure, no studs. It's pretty amazing how fast things can get sideways after just a tiny rut or bump on an icy surface throws your heretofore straight tracking off :shock: I ride down a dirt road 1.5 miles to get my mail, somedays. Fresh powder is a piece of cake. After it gets packed down irregularly, it's a bitch.

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by LeftieBiker » Dec 09 2018 1:45am

I just ride around the occasional snowy and icy patches, and don't ride when conditions support the formation of black ice. That isn't difficult here unless it's an unusually snowy Winter.

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by craneplaneguy » Dec 09 2018 10:47pm

6 miles of this today, no traffic to worry about anyway!
rsz_img_20181209_093918335_2.jpg

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Re: E-bike or E-trike for winter commuting?

Post by LeftieBiker » Dec 10 2018 3:53am

You sure have me beaten for snow! And probably for low temps, too, although it was below freezing for most of my ride yesterday evening. I now have my outfit perfected to the point where I can ride in breezy 30F weather. The windshield does help with headwinds.

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