Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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LockH
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Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by LockH » Jan 05, 2018 3:46 pm

Hehe... ESB "Search found 1085 matches: Badass"... but not THIS "Badass"... seen on a British ebike source...:

Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle:
https://www.electricbikesales.co.uk/BAD ... ION-DEVICE
The Badasse-Bike Device is an easy to fit de-restriction dongle. This clever little device will work magic with your electric bike speed sensor removing the 15.5mph LEGAL limit, allowing you to unlock the full potential of your e-Bike. The maximum speed will vary depending on the system and the e-bike, although we have seen maximum speeds in excess of 31mph.
Image

:mrgreen:

https://www.badassebikes.com/

Image

:lol:
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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by LockH » Jan 05, 2018 10:40 pm

Hehe...ES "Views 28" and nobuddy has noticed this "Speed Tuning Dongle" yet??? :lol:

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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by MadRhino » Jan 05, 2018 10:51 pm

Most of us have no restriction.

Well, not the kind of restrictions that this dongle can overcome. :wink:
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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by LockH » Jan 05, 2018 10:57 pm

^^ "Most of us"... Like, "most" of the world doesn't run on "store bought"? :lol:
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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by amberwolf » Jan 06, 2018 2:41 am

Says it goes over the "magnetic sensor" of various middrive bikes. Presumably this is a wheel-speed sensor, and what it is probably doing is ensuring the sensor doesn't get any higher speed signal than whatever it's limit is, regardless of what the actual speed is.

Probably, it's making small magnetic pulses at a low rate, so that regardless of wheel size settings it still wouldn't be higher than the limiter would cut out at.

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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by Tats » Jan 06, 2018 5:00 am

Talked/rode with a few Bosch guys with them. Pretty impressive performance increase to 42kmh and quite torquey. Think it changes the pulse frequency off the pas sensor. You can do an equivalent $2 hack by putting a magnet on the crank arm and spinning the pickup round as the crank spins slower than the rear wheel.

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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by MadRhino » Jan 07, 2018 9:41 am

LockH wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 10:57 pm
^^ "Most of us"... Like, "most" of the world doesn't run on "store bought"? :lol:
Hehe. Most of us on ES, not most of them in the world who are riding ‘store bought’. :wink:
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by Voltron » Jan 07, 2018 6:59 pm

The magnet on the crank method actually stops working after awhile... The system figures out it's being spoofed and shuts down on the newer ones with Bosch.

The Badass dongle basically sends every other blip from the speed sensor so the display reads half speed and half real distance, which is nice and simple compared to the complex ones that readjust the signal so the real speed still shows in the display. But they both have been pretty much outdated as the new Bosch one are factory unlocked to 28 in the U.S. anyway....

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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by LockH » Jan 08, 2018 6:03 am

^^ Tks V... So. Speaking from experience? (You've tried these?) I'd expect SOMEbuddy on ES to figure out "the work-around". :lol:
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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by Voltron » Jan 08, 2018 1:04 pm

Yes, I've installed and used most of the dongles.. the Badass is nice and simple, the other ones are more complex and designed to be hidden for avoiding the homologation police....

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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by Patchogue » Jan 08, 2018 3:10 pm

now the question is, is the badass dongle price a good one or can you make this dongles at home with fewer bucks..?

I would love to put my hand on a hand full of these but I'm not so sure about paying this much.

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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by jbalat » Jan 08, 2018 3:30 pm

My thoughts were makin one myself too but seriously why can’t we just flash the u.s. firmware on our bikes that way motor is not compromised and works as it was designed ?
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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by Voltron » Jan 08, 2018 5:56 pm

If you flash it, then it is permanently set to higher speed, which could be a problem depending on where you live I guess. Part of the hidden dongle appeal is it can be set to turn off automatically when the bike is powered down, then take a button combo to turn it on the next time, so the bike rides like legal after getting pulled over.

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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by jbalat » Jan 09, 2018 1:48 am

If you get pulled over doing some insane speed then i don't think they will care that you have disabled your dongle which by the way doesnt look too easy with the badass.

. and not too sure what the dongle is doing to the motor in the long term since the software was designed to provide a certain amount of assist based on actual speed.

I just think flashing with u.s. firmware would be best for the motor in the long run.. and more than happy to get 32km/hr out of it since that is my normal commute speed on my racer without assist and lets me keep up with the other commuters.

Not sure where this 25km thing came from but i ride to work every morning and no one does 25km/hr. Besides the new torque sensing bikes should fall into a different class altogether since you actually need to pedal as opposed to wrapping the throttle or just moving your legs around.

So the real question is how hard is it to get this firmware ?
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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by Voltron » Jan 09, 2018 5:16 am

Actually the real original question was about the Badass dongle, not firmware flashing. And no, the externally mounted, easily visible Badass version is not the one if you want stealthy speed... Then you want one of the hidden in the motor case ones.

And no Bosch motor produces insane speed, no matter how unrestricted it is.. But at least the motor power doesn't drop out from under you as soon as you do a decent sprint like the normal set up does. Yes, doing power wheelies thru town will draw attention, but a dongle isn't going to get you doing that. Having a hidden dongle just makes it easier to convince somebody it was your super human pedaling making you go mildly faster than the puny stock speed of a standard Bosch setup.

Also, if you flashed it, and then took it to a Bosch shop for something else, as soon as they plug it into the diagnostics it would be flagged and void your warranty, leaving the user on the hook for their very overpriced and extremely proprietary parts.

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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by jbalat » Jan 10, 2018 1:27 am

Sorry didn’t realise this topic was regarding Badass.. oops and ignore my rant about the 25km limit on ebikes, realised that aus are just following the eu system and it will be impossible to change the laws now even if they wanted to, the ramifications would be too great especially for all the existing owners of speed limited bikes.

So..
Just thinking about the operation of the dongle... would it work if the dongle produced 1:1 signal until just before cutoff say 24km/hr and then maintained this constant pulse timing at anything above 24km/hr so it would not cutout. This would at least display an accurate speed up to 24 ?
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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by Tom L » Jan 10, 2018 3:15 am

Assuming the signal from the magnetic speed sensor is digital, a simple D-type flip flop can be easily configured to divide the signal by two (i.e. allow every other pulse). With the size of SMD IC packages this could just about be hidden in the cable.
Image
Disabling it with a micro magnetic reed switch would also be trivial.

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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by LockH » Jan 10, 2018 6:39 am

jbalat wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 1:27 am
it will be impossible to change the laws now even if they wanted to, the ramifications would be too great especially for all the existing owners of speed limited bikes.
WATT??? (ESB "Search found 15 matches: red flag law"... perhaps best:
ELECTRICAL TRICYCLES.
To the Editors of The Electrical Review.

Sirs, What is the use of an electric tricycle? The Locomotives (Roads) Act, Section 3, enacts that "every locomotive propelled by steam, or any other than animal power, on any turnpike road or public highway, shall be worked according to the following rules and regulations amongst others, namely: Firstly, at least three persons shall be employed to drive or conduct such locomotive; secondly, one of such persons while any locomotive is in motion shall precede such locomotive on foot by not less than 60 yards, and shall carry a red flag constantly displayed, and shall warn the riders and drivers of horses of the approach of such locomotive, and shall signal the driver thereof when it shall be necessary to stop, and shall assist horses, and carriages drawn by horses, passing the same." And by Section 4, the speed at which such locomotives shall be driven along a highway is limited to four miles per hour, and through a city, town, or village to two miles per hour. Is this how electric tricycles are proposed to be driven? That a tricycle is a locomotive within the meaning of the Act of Parliament if driven by other than animal power has been recently decided by the Queen's Bench in the case of Parkyns v. Priest, 7 Q.B.D., 813.

Yours, &c,
CHANCERY LANE.
October 31st, 1882.
:mrgreen:

... AND:
...1896. This is the year in England when they celebrated the repeal of the Red Flag laws with a rally race from London to Brighton:
Image

:lol: So, maybe 15 years to "get that law changed"... back in time when just about NO ONE owned/operated horseless carriages. :wink:

"Closer to home" for us in time and space... from April, 2015...:
Should I buy an electric bicycle? Here's everything you need to know to get started!
https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/should ... r-faq.html

Includes: Some recent compromises have been made whereby pedal-assist electric bikes may reach ~28 miles per hour assisted but only if the rider is pedaling rigorously. A similar class of electric bikes called "speed pedelecs" exists in Europe and have become popular for commuters.

:)
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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by jbalat » Jan 10, 2018 8:15 am

Tom L... Sounds pretty easy.. not sure why everyone is charging 140 euro for these things ?

I will probably wait till mine runs out of warranty. I think Bosch gives 2 years on the motor. I bet it would cost a fortune to repair if something went wrong and they could prove you had a tuning chip of some kind.

LockH.. Interesting reading but yeh the "speed pedelec 28mph" class which is limited to torque sensing bikes sounds like exactly what we need.. Is it real and if so how come no one has heard about it ?
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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by Voltron » Jan 10, 2018 12:18 pm

Its a real thing in California USA, where we just changed the laws to make 28 mph legal. We can have a throttle too... but only up to 20, and helmet and speedometer are required for the class 3 28mph pedelec operation. I think in parts of Europe its allowed also, but with extra requirements like left side mirror and registration plate... I end up with leftover mirrors and tiny license plate holders now after builds from Euro bikes.


No modifying original equipment either.... unless you make sure to change the label on the bike :wink:


For jbalat, its been a while but last warranty install of a Bosch motor I did I seem to remember the invoice being $1300 usd as the retail price for just motor, and the pricey shop I was at before opening my own shop would have charged $150 at least for labor for the install. Theres going to be a big market for complete drop in aftermarket motor units that fit the Bosch mounting bracket in a few years I bet..

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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by wturber » Jan 10, 2018 12:56 pm

Voltron wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 12:18 pm
Its a real thing in California USA, where we just changed the laws to make 28 mph legal. We can have a throttle too... but only up to 20, and helmet and speedometer are required for the class 3 28mph pedelec operation. I think in parts of Europe its allowed also, but with extra requirements like left side mirror and registration plate... I end up with leftover mirrors and tiny license plate holders now after builds from Euro bikes.

Yes, the three class set of rules is ridiculously limiting and complicated. But the one bonus is that it does allow a legal speed of up to 28 mph. But why anybody should care that you pedal the bike in order to go 28 mph is beyond me. Furthermore, why 28 mph? What an odd number to choose in a country where such legal limits are typically set in increments of 5 mph. And even more odd when speed limits are typically enforced with a grace range of up to 10 mph.
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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by LockH » Jan 10, 2018 1:51 pm

LockH wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 10:40 pm
Hehe...ES "Views 28" and nobuddy has noticed this "Speed Tuning Dongle" yet??? :lol:

(Zero [C]omments/thoughts...) :roll:
Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle
by LockH » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:46 pm » in E-Bike General Discussion
20 Replies... 354 Views...
That's "better"... Thank you. :lol:
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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by Voltron » Jan 10, 2018 1:52 pm

I'm guessing the thinking is if it has the power to go 28, then having a throttle you can bump by accident could be dangerous to those around the user... And 28 works out to a nice round 45 kph, so not too odd a number by world standards.
Last edited by Voltron on Jan 10, 2018 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by LockH » Jan 10, 2018 1:55 pm

^^ NEVer trust the "user". :lol:
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Re: Badass e-Bike Speed Tuning Dongle

Post by wturber » Jan 10, 2018 3:50 pm

Voltron wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 1:52 pm
I'm guessing the thinking is if it has the power to go 28, then having a throttle you can bump by accident could be dangerous to those around the user... And 28 works out to a nice round 45 kph, so not too odd a number by world standards.
They are concerned about "bumping" the throttle by accident? Seriously? That makes no sense. Especially on vehicles with such a low power to weight ratio.

And yes, I noticed the kph equivalence too. But it still makes no sense. They didn't go with an odd kph equivalent number for the lower speed classes and it isn't like the U.S. is on the verge of converting its speed limits and road system to the kilometers.

Someone mentioned a while back that this group of laws is being pushed by manufacturers. That kinda jibes with the way they are written. The laws seems more equipment and engineering centric than road safety/user centric. They are overly restrictive and overly complex. They also have the stink of "we know what's good for you." Better to legislate behavior than the technical aspects of the bikes. It would be easier to enforce. Should satisfy the legitimate safety of the public. And it would provide more flexibility and freedom in bike design.

I like the idea of standardizing these rules across the various states - if the rules are good, sensible and an improvement on what is in place. I don't think these rules meet those requirements. About the only good thing about them is that they make going faster than 20 mph on and e-bike legal. And it is the presence of unreasonably low speed limits for e-bikes that creates a market for things like the Badass e-bike Speed Tuning Dongle. <---------- See! I tried to get back on topic. :^)
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