JUMP Bikes Bike share — Electrified.

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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LockH
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JUMP Bikes Bike share — Electrified.

Post by LockH » Jan 16, 2018 5:23 pm

ESB "Search found 39 matches: jump share"... and I see Social Bicycles has cracked a new/separate site:
https://jumpbikes.com/

Hehe... BIKE SHARE—ELECTRIFIED

Image

Stay tuned for the ES kit to put these bikes "on steroids". :lol:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

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Re: JUMP Bikes Bike share — Electrified.

Post by LockH » Jan 24, 2018 7:42 pm

I see Jump Bikes has an entry now on Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jump_Bikes

:)
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

arthurtuxedo
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Re: JUMP Bikes Bike share — Electrified.

Post by arthurtuxedo » Jan 25, 2018 1:09 am

I've taken a few rides since they went live on Thursday. They are front hub setups with Bafang motors (couldn't tell which one from the label). Power is pretty decent, and not far off from my eZee 250 RPM @ 36V, 20A (basically a MAC 12T). Shifting mechanism is a Nexus 8-speed hub. There is no throttle, but they either have torque sensing or the PAS is well-tuned. It's nice to ride in the rain and over hard bumps and not have to worry about inflicting pain on my own vehicle, and even nicer to get to the destination, lock it up and just walk away without the slightest concern about it being vandalized or stolen. The rate plan is $2 for 30 minutes and then 7 cents per minute after, so there's no "gotcha" where you take an extra minute and get charged for a full half-hour or hour like with some rentals. The ride is OK, although a bit rough with no suspension, and there are integrated lights and the bright red color helps with visibility. It has a decent-sized front basket with a drink holder and enough room for a large bag of groceries or two smaller ones.

On the negative side, the locking system is pretty clunky. It needs a lot of clearance so if there's a bike locked to the other side of a rack it probably won't work. I also smashed my finger pretty good the second time I locked it. The process for starting and ending rides and putting it on hold is also not self-explanatory and takes some getting used to. Drivers seem especially aggressive compared to riding my black eZee Sprint. I think the red color brings out their aggression like with other dumb animals. Brakes are OK, but nothing like my hydraulic front brake and I don't feel confident that I can stop quickly enough if someone pulls out in front of me while I'm at 20 MPH. Gearing is very low, and I find myself in the tallest gear most of the time, although the motor kicks in to help as soon as I start pedaling so that's not much of a problem. San Francisco, despite its strong cycling community and recent (welcome) infrastructure upgrades, is not a bike-friendly city, and finding a place to lock up at the end of a ride is not always easy. If the city were as lackadaisical about parking spaces as they are about places to lock up, the citizens would riot and burn down city hall. A couple of times I ended up just locking the bike to a street sign, which I would not give a second thought to with my own bike but with a shared bike, it puts a slight worry about receiving a fine in the back of my mind. The app is decent, even if it crashes a lot on my iPhone 6S+.

From a business standpoint, most of these bike share startups are probably going to fail and leave a few that will stand the test of time. Compared to scooter rentals, E-bikes are way more convenient since you don't need to find parking (rack placement issues above notwithstanding) and more importantly can't get a parking ticket. They also feel a lot safer to me in the rain, and you have free use of the bike lanes without fear of citation. I feel that the demand will be there, and it will spur a huge amount of interest in E-bikes, since $2 to satisfy peoples' curiosity is nothing. I expect E-bike sales to increase by an order of magnitude within the next decade, due partly to shared bikes. That said, I don't know that it's possible to turn a profit at 2 bucks a pop, especially since Jump has gone with the bizarre decision not to specify a bike with a removable battery, so their employees need to transport the entire bike to a warehouse for charging! I understand they're probably worried about battery theft, but this is a logistics nightmare that could sink any company, especially a tech company that needs to keep its employee-hours to an absolute minimum! Due to that alone, I expect the company to fold as soon as there is a downturn in VC funding. For now, though, it works well and makes a great addition to my transportation arsenal.

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Re: JUMP Bikes Bike share — Electrified.

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Jan 26, 2018 2:20 am

arthurtuxedo:

Interesting report there, yes it is amazing to me these companies can somehow expect to turn a profit at such a low rental price. I'm curious what type of vehicle the employees transport the bikes back to their warehouse in for charging, must be a big truck or trailer with a lot of spots for the individual bikes, sounds like a lot of work instead of just a snap in replacement of fresh battery right on site.

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Re: JUMP Bikes Bike share — Electrified.

Post by arthurtuxedo » Feb 01, 2018 11:41 am

I’ve had a few bikes that were badly skipping after only 2 weeks live, which tells me that Nexus hubs are probably a bad idea on shared bikes that people are going to beat on and shift under heavy load. I would guess that Nuvinci hubs would probably fare better.
Raisedeyebrows wrote:
Jan 26, 2018 2:20 am
arthurtuxedo:

Interesting report there, yes it is amazing to me these companies can somehow expect to turn a profit at such a low rental price. I'm curious what type of vehicle the employees transport the bikes back to their warehouse in for charging, must be a big truck or trailer with a lot of spots for the individual bikes, sounds like a lot of work instead of just a snap in replacement of fresh battery right on site.
I do think profits are possible at $2 per half-hour given that Zipcar rents cars for about $8 per hour and there is a lot more maintenance and infrastructure involved with cars, but it requires extremely high efficiency of worker hours. I don’t think it can be done without swappable batteries and gears that can take repeated shifts under load.

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Re: JUMP Bikes Bike share — Electrified.

Post by WoodlandHills » Feb 01, 2018 2:05 pm

There may be infrastructure involved with ZipCar type sharing, but I doubt the maintenance is much higher: cars are very reliable these days, especially when there is a warranty period! Is an oil change every 15k miles any more expensive than replacing an IGH?

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Re: JUMP Bikes Bike share — Electrified.

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Feb 01, 2018 6:43 pm

From the photos I saw of the SF operation they have guys who run around in what looked like regular extended vans moving the bikes around, must be some manpower hours involved and resulting expense. Too bad they don't have personnel on ebikes with trailers full of batteries doing the swaps.

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Re: JUMP Bikes Bike share — Electrified.

Post by arthurtuxedo » Feb 02, 2018 12:38 pm

Raisedeyebrows wrote:
Feb 01, 2018 6:43 pm
From the photos I saw of the SF operation they have guys who run around in what looked like regular extended vans moving the bikes around, must be some manpower hours involved and resulting expense. Too bad they don't have personnel on ebikes with trailers full of batteries doing the swaps.
Totally agree! I feel like a completely bike-based operation would be a huge selling point and save a lot of money.
WoodlandHills wrote:
Feb 01, 2018 2:05 pm
There may be infrastructure involved with ZipCar type sharing, but I doubt the maintenance is much higher: cars are very reliable these days, especially when there is a warranty period! Is an oil change every 15k miles any more expensive than replacing an IGH?
The cost difference between operating cars and bikes is at least an order of magnitude. You've got financing on a $20K vehicle vs a $1K vehicle, depreciation, insurance and gasoline in Zipcar's case (those are both included in the rental price), registration, leased parking spaces (that's $300+ / month per car right there), and maintenance and repair costs. You also have to send employees around to keep the interiors clean which entails a lot more labor than taking a quick chamois to the occasional bike when it's visibly dirty. Rented cars also get driven for dozens of miles on a typical day whereas with shared bikes it's like 2 or 3. Even if users are grenading IGH's left and right, there's just no comparison in operating costs.

My criticism was that you still need almost as many people to run the app, customer service lines, HR and back office, etc., so if they're paying lot of people to run around taking the bikes to charging stations it's not going to pencil out at $2 per ride. However I do believe it's possible to turn a profit with a lean operation that properly incentivizes the customers to do most of the work (free ride if you end a low or dead-battery bike at a charger or end your ride downtown just before rush hour, etc.).

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Re: JUMP Bikes Bike share — Electrified.

Post by markz » Feb 02, 2018 1:25 pm

I dont see it lasting with the rates, it sure is cheap!

So you lock it up at designated stations?

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Re: JUMP Bikes Bike share — Electrified.

Post by amberwolf » Feb 02, 2018 1:27 pm

arthurtuxedo wrote:
Feb 02, 2018 12:38 pm
Raisedeyebrows wrote:
Feb 01, 2018 6:43 pm
From the photos I saw of the SF operation they have guys who run around in what looked like regular extended vans moving the bikes around, must be some manpower hours involved and resulting expense. Too bad they don't have personnel on ebikes with trailers full of batteries doing the swaps.
Totally agree! I feel like a completely bike-based operation would be a huge selling point and save a lot of money.
Depends on time: If it takes only a minute or few to drive the bikes from where they are to where they should be, vs 20-30 minutes or more to bike them, then labor costs might exceed savings of vehicle operation at some point.

If traffic and speed limits equalize bike vs van times, then the bike method could be a LOT cheaper.

But it also depends on insurance--companies insure delivery/work vans all the time, but it can be difficult to find any insurance company willing to do any form of insurance for any reason for a bicycle (other than sometimes the theft insurance that comes under home insurance). It may also be a local/municipality/county/state rule/law requiring such insurance, or just a good business idea, for road accident/etc insurance for businesses. Though the laws might specifically word it so it only applies to motor vehicles (which even ebikes aren't, most places), in which case the laws might not require it but it'd still be a good idea business-wise.

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Re: JUMP Bikes Bike share — Electrified.

Post by LockH » Feb 02, 2018 5:56 pm

Hehe... BTW folks... posted a link here to a YT vid... where electric-assist may appear the clear winner in the "ebike shootout contest" in Washington, DC among six diff. bike-share outfits...
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1355359

Bike-Share Ebike Value Huge vs. antique/retro/food-poop-powered/antique bikes... :lol:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

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Re: JUMP Bikes Bike share — Electrified.

Post by arthurtuxedo » Feb 05, 2018 12:13 pm

Good video summary! I believe there is a place for docked and dockless, electric and pedal bike share, and shared scooters and NEVs (neighborhood electric vehicles). The advantage of docked share is predictability: You can be reasonably assured that there will be a bike waiting for you at each station, and a place to put it when you get to the destination. Dockless bike share will bring you right up to the doorstep at your destination, but you can't easily plan for it because you don't know if someone has left the closest one right in front of your door or many blocks away. If it's the latter, you've either budgeted extra time or you're going to be late, which nullifies the speed advantage over public transit. I've actually used Ford GoBikes (docked) to get close to a JUMP bike or Scoot (dockless), which is great for people like me who enjoy solving puzzles, but the average person is going to want something simple that they can count on. You can achieve predictability with dockless share by flooding the city with so many bikes that there is guaranteed to be one close by, but then you end up with Beijing's bicycle graveyards and cluttered sidewalks.

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Re: JUMP Bikes Bike share — Electrified.

Post by LockH » Feb 05, 2018 3:07 pm

^^ Hehe... Hi SF... "a place for docked and dockless, electric and pedal bike share"...

So. Got hills much? (Re electric assist...) :mrgreen: Other concerns may mostly be just based in quantity available...?
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

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