Wheelies

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
flat tire   1 MW

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Wheelies

Post by flat tire » Jan 30 2018 9:53pm

Who has taught themselves to wheelie solely on a ebike? Previously I've been limited to pulling short power wheelies and lofting over obstacles. I don't have a background wheeling anything else. But now I switched the brakes so I can catch from looping. Easier said than done. Anyway I expect to be a regular 12 o'clock boy after another 20 hours practice. Who else?

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MrDude_1   100 kW

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Re: Wheelies

Post by MrDude_1 » Jan 30 2018 11:01pm

I learned on 50cc pitbike motards... started with them, then dirtbikes, then sportbikes.
wheelies on ebikes that have amp or torque based throttles is easy.
wheelies on ebikes that use speed throttles or laggy throttles is a bit harder.
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lester12483   10 kW

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Re: Wheelies

Post by lester12483 » Jan 31 2018 8:15am

Ha. No way man. My ebike is way to heavy for any wheelies.
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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Wheelies

Post by MadRhino » Jan 31 2018 8:34am

lester12483 wrote:
Jan 31 2018 8:15am
Ha. No way man. My ebike is way to heavy for any wheelies.
It is not a matter of weight. It is about geometry first, then power.

I build my bikes to be able to, but I don’t ride wheelies for fun. In fact, I usually dose acceleration lifting the front only a few inches and try to keep it like that as long as I can. :twisted:
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

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minde28383   10 kW

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Re: Wheelies

Post by minde28383 » Jan 31 2018 1:20pm

MadRhino wrote:
Jan 31 2018 8:34am
lester12483 wrote:
Jan 31 2018 8:15am
Ha. No way man. My ebike is way to heavy for any wheelies.
It is not a matter of weight. It is about geometry first, then power.

I build my bikes to be able to, but I don’t ride wheelies for fun. In fact, I usually dose acceleration lifting the front only a few inches and try to keep it like that as long as I can. :twisted:
You got 20kw in bursts and you bike weight 31.3 kg. Wheeles are at your fingertips.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Wheelies

Post by MadRhino » Jan 31 2018 1:33pm

minde28383 wrote:
Jan 31 2018 1:20pm
MadRhino wrote:
Jan 31 2018 8:34am
lester12483 wrote:
Jan 31 2018 8:15am
Ha. No way man. My ebike is way to heavy for any wheelies.
It is not a matter of weight. It is about geometry first, then power.

I build my bikes to be able to, but I don’t ride wheelies for fun. In fact, I usually dose acceleration lifting the front only a few inches and try to keep it like that as long as I can. :twisted:
You got 20kw in bursts and you bike weight 31.3 kg. Wheeles are at your fingertips.
Yep, a back flip is at my fingertip, but a bike can be built with a geometry that would make it wheelie with very little power, or so that it wouldn’t wheelie at all no matter the power. Mine is both, depending of my body weight shifting. That is called centered geometry, and achieved via cockpit configuration, head angle, dropout length...
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

dustNbone   10 kW

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Re: Wheelies

Post by dustNbone » Jan 31 2018 1:48pm

When I had my 20ah A123 pack on the rear rack wheelies were pretty much the name of the game on my bike, but with a triangle battery that weighs half as much they're far less common. Sometimes when I'm wearing bulky winter gloves my throttle inputs aren't super precise.

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Re: Wheelies

Post by flat tire » Jan 31 2018 3:51pm

My bike has both lag and speed based throttle, unfortunately. I have yet to run across a ebike controller without lag. Maybe my upcoming tangent drive w/ RC speed controller will fix that. My experience with RC stuff is it's light years ahead of ebike stuff in response time. Too bad the power / voltage range is fairly narrow for our purposes.

Torque at the wheel, wheelbase and CG (including a heavy rider way up high) determine how your bike will wheelie. You don't need a lot of power even on a heavy bike. Especially if the rider leans back.

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Re: Wheelies

Post by amberwolf » Feb 01 2018 3:50am

The only wheelie I can remember on an ebike was on SB Cruiser, and was accidental--trying to accelerate away from a stop as I turned the corner, with a heavy load in the back of the trike (before I rebuilt it to move the front of the cargo bed forward to prevent this sort of thing). I can't remember at the moment if it was groceries or Tiny back there, though I do remember a police vehicle was passing the intersection at that moment. (didn't come check me out though I'd expected it).

EDIT: found the post
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67833&p=1175761&hil ... e#p1175761
I guess the wheelies happened several times on teh ride, and it was groceries.


I did try to make CrazyBike2 a wheelie machine, but never could--it's just too long with too much weight forward, and not enough power at the rear. I did blow up a controller trying, though. ;)
Last edited by amberwolf on Feb 01 2018 4:18am, edited 1 time in total.

Buk___   10 kW

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Re: Wheelies

Post by Buk___ » Feb 01 2018 4:13am

Seems to me wheelies -- controlled wheelies -- have almost nothing to do with power.

There are two kids -- 10 or 12 -- live just along the road from me that spend hours riding back and fourth 50 or 60 meters at a time with the front wheels of their 24" mtbs at head height.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Wheelies

Post by fechter » Feb 01 2018 9:40am

You could cheat by making a throttle control unit with a gyro chip. Program the maximum 'wheelie angle' and the controller will just hold it there like a Segway.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Wheelies

Post by MadRhino » Feb 01 2018 1:01pm

fechter wrote:
Feb 01 2018 9:40am
You could cheat by making a throttle control unit with a gyro chip. Program the maximum 'wheelie angle' and the controller will just hold it there like a Segway.
Yep. Many motorcycles are equipped with a wheelie limiter. The trial ebike from Audi has it, and it is not a powerful bike. Geometry and weight distribution, are making how a bike is handling. Assist systems can temper the rider’s mistakes.

Wheelie is not a performance goal. Conscious riders don’t wheelie for fun, unless they are off road with no one aside. In the city, you want optimal control, not compromising your options putting on a show.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

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Re: Wheelies

Post by docw009 » Feb 01 2018 1:18pm

Buk___ wrote:
Feb 01 2018 4:13am
Seems to me wheelies -- controlled wheelies -- have almost nothing to do with power.

There are two kids -- 10 or 12 -- live just along the road from me that spend hours riding back and fourth 50 or 60 meters at a time with the front wheels of their 24" mtbs at head height.
I agree. It's rider skill. I saw an older guy on a mountain bike just yank up on his bars and ride around in a circle in a parking lot like it was a unicycle.

Now if I'm riding my little folder up a steep enough hill, the weight is directly over the rear wheel and the combination of high pedal force on the granny gear and 350 watts will lift the front wheel. It might just lift w/o the motor.

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Re: Wheelies

Post by Buk___ » Feb 01 2018 2:24pm

docw009 wrote:
Feb 01 2018 1:18pm
Buk___ wrote:
Feb 01 2018 4:13am
Seems to me wheelies -- controlled wheelies -- have almost nothing to do with power.

There are two kids -- 10 or 12 -- live just along the road from me that spend hours riding back and fourth 50 or 60 meters at a time with the front wheels of their 24" mtbs at head height.
I agree. It's rider skill. I saw an older guy on a mountain bike just yank up on his bars and ride around in a circle in a parking lot like it was a unicycle.

Now if I'm riding my little folder up a steep enough hill, the weight is directly over the rear wheel and the combination of high pedal force on the granny gear and 350 watts will lift the front wheel. It might just lift w/o the motor.
S'funny. Having posted that I went for a walk later and they were at it again. I watched a few moments and tried to see what they actually did.

The first thing that amazed me was they don't stand up. Either to get it started or when riding. As best I could tell, they get moving at a slow walking pace, dab the front brake and then let go. As the forks rebound, they lean back a bit, pull on the bars and just pedal. After that it just seems to be subtle shifts of their body weight and steady pedaling. I couldn't tell if they were using the back brake or not.

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Re: Wheelies

Post by 1JohnFoster » Feb 02 2018 2:26am

Funnest wheelie I ever saw was a bike courier in Mtl. It was night and there was a huge building fire downtown. I was cowering on the other side of the street with a bunch of other gawkers. The courier comes whipping down the street, suddenly sees the fire, sees the crowd, then wheelies between us, silhouetted against the flames like some whacked out 80's video. That would just never happen here in Vancouver. Boringville.

I can't really wheelie a bike myself, I've tried but I lack the finesse. A few months ago I accidentally turned too quick and went 2 wheels on my 3 wheeler. Does that count?

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Wheelies

Post by MadRhino » Feb 02 2018 3:39am

1JohnFoster wrote:
Feb 02 2018 2:26am
Funnest wheelie I ever saw was a bike courier in Mtl. It was night and there was a huge building fire downtown. I was cowering on the other side of the street with a bunch of other gawkers. The courier comes whipping down the street, suddenly sees the fire, sees the crowd, then wheelies between us, silhouetted against the flames like some whacked out 80's video. That would just never happen here in Vancouver. Boringville.

I can't really wheelie a bike myself, I've tried but I lack the finesse. A few months ago I accidentally turned too quick and went 2 wheels on my 3 wheeler. Does that count?
It counts double of course, if it is a delta trike and you cornered on the rear wheels. :twisted:

Here in Mtl, wheelie comes just behind hockey as favourite sport to play on the street. If you want to impress the crowd, you have to wheelie downhill with a beer in the other hand.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

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MrDude_1   100 kW

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Re: Wheelies

Post by MrDude_1 » Feb 02 2018 10:09am

Buk___ wrote:
Feb 01 2018 4:13am
Seems to me wheelies -- controlled wheelies -- have almost nothing to do with power.

There are two kids -- 10 or 12 -- live just along the road from me that spend hours riding back and fourth 50 or 60 meters at a time with the front wheels of their 24" mtbs at head height.
Correct. There are 2 basic types of wheelies.
Balance point wheelies have the Center of Gravity of the bike balanced over the rear wheel. This takes almost zero power. If you want to accelerate, you need to dip the weight forward a bit first, and to brake you lean back further. These are the type you see going down the street for long distances.

Power wheelies have the CG far infront of the rear wheel and are only lifting the wheel due to acceleration. These are "newbie wheelies", especially with motorcycles...the danger here of course is you must keep accelerating and bikes can get to dangerous speeds quickly.
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Re: Wheelies

Post by Builditgood » Feb 25 2019 6:43pm

I'm practicing wheelies on a cyclone 3kw full sus that feels nicely balanced and with adequate power. Problem is the throttle is not accurate enough even though I upgraded it from the stock one. Controller isn't Bluetooth either. Any suggestions for a throttle and controller combination please , maybe even going to 60a?
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Re: Wheelies

Post by markz » Feb 25 2019 7:23pm

Wheelies
For when you are trying to blend in with your surroundings 8)
Its always nice to fool around and have fun!

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Re: Wheelies

Post by flat tire » Apr 20 2019 8:06pm

Nice update for this thread: I'm reaching balance point regularly now. My wheelies are lasting long enough to move the bars and myself to try to steer the bike. Have hardly ridden the ebike since last post because I bought a Zero, and have been riding that most of the time. But, of course I still need my ebike fix more than ever, so have been riding recently.

The QS205 ebike with ASI controller snaps up as high as you want it as fast as you want. It's like clutching up but better. The Zero, on the other hand, needs to be held full throttle for quite a while as it slooowly lifts up. I have it regeared for extra torque too. It needs another 30% phase amps, and instant throttle response. Right now the sevcon they have is using way too much of a soft start vs my ASI.

I've only had one walk-off so far, although I almost crashed today inadvertently doing a 12 o'clock while showing off. Fortunately my regen grip on the left did the trick and kept me from looping.

I will keep up the wheelie practice on both ebike and moto. I want people to think it's a black dude under all that riding gear.

Theodore Voltaire   10 MW

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Re: Wheelies

Post by Theodore Voltaire » May 18 2020 11:32am

Ha haw

[youtube]SfZoyQ_6yNY[/youtube]

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Stealth_Chopper   10 W

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Re: Wheelies

Post by Stealth_Chopper » May 18 2020 6:06pm

Yes !
POP a Wheelie-able
I want that.
It will :) will be an important feature on my next eBike build.
Mike

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Re: Wheelies

Post by miro13car » May 20 2020 8:19am

strange that nobody mentions possible injury during such exercises.
this guy on railway tracks does not even wear helmet?
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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Wheelies

Post by MadRhino » May 20 2020 10:21am

miro13car wrote:
May 20 2020 8:19am
strange that nobody mentions possible injury during such exercises.
this guy on railway tracks does not even wear helmet?
It is not strange. Those who are worried, avoid doing wheelies and usually wear a helmet. :wink:

And, when riding on one wheel is dangerous for your head, it is the front.

Image
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

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Re: Wheelies

Post by miro13car » May 20 2020 3:28pm

it is dangerous for any head doing it.
tilting back too much and what, just law of physics.
make sure we can see your picture attached
Eplus, Bionx

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