The end of BionX?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
markz   100 GW

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by markz » Apr 05 2018 6:50pm

You can become a GRINVESTOR and receive ebike products.
http://www.ebikes.ca/about-us/grinvestors.html
I learned of this a year or two ago, I found it quite a unique way for Justin to raise capitol.

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by spinningmagnets » Apr 05 2018 7:03pm

Speaking of hacking an orphaned BionX D-series hub...out of the currently available sensorless 6-FET controllers, is there one that stands out as working well with high electrical frequencies?

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by LockH » Apr 05 2018 7:07pm

DANG Wish I has money to invest in Lord Justin/Grin Tech.... UNfortunatey, living "life below the poverty line", politicians and taxpayers think that a "starvation diet" will save them some money "down the road". [Sigh]
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

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viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

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markz   100 GW

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by markz » Apr 05 2018 10:38pm

willing to loan a minimum of $10,000 to a maximum of $100,000 to Grin for at least 12 months. For the duration that the funds are on loan, you will receive 8% annual interest payment in the form Grin Tech store credit.
8% aint too shabby but who has a spare $10k just laying around. Imagine investing $100k, oh the things I'd get, thats $8k worth of Grintech stuff!

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by Syonyk » Apr 07 2018 11:57am

markz wrote:
Apr 05 2018 10:38pm
8% aint too shabby but who has a spare $10k just laying around. Imagine investing $100k, oh the things I'd get, thats $8k worth of Grintech stuff!
Empirically, an awful lot of people.

Who has a spare $10k and is into ebikes? That's a harder question...
Battery packs, Sunkko Welders, and more. http://syonyk.blogspot.com/

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Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh   10 MW

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh » Apr 07 2018 12:36pm

markz wrote:
Apr 05 2018 10:38pm
willing to loan a minimum of $10,000 to a maximum of $100,000 to Grin for at least 12 months. For the duration that the funds are on loan, you will receive 8% annual interest payment in the form Grin Tech store credit.
8% aint too shabby but who has a spare $10k just laying around. Imagine investing $100k, oh the things I'd get, thats $8k worth of Grintech stuff!
here's a thought.

you know how on kickstarter & the like in addtion to your roi you also get a t-shirt or some other bonus?
how about as an added incentive invest $100k get your name in red on E•S as a part owner.
and not just the colour but full priveleges that come with ruling elite status.
like the epaulletes & riding crop, immunity from moderation, the whole magilla.
i would liquidate some holdings for dat.

i can hear barentz sphincter puckering already.
Last edited by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh on Apr 15 2018 6:18pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Around the world or around the block Everywhere I go the kids wanna Frock.

Cephalotus   1 kW

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by Cephalotus » Apr 14 2018 8:17pm

A member of the German Pedelecforum posted this "emergency solution" if you do not have a BionX battery.

If you do that the console takes longer to react, you lose the battery gauge and the clock.

sadly also recuperation will not work.

Maybe deactivating code 3774 (overvolt protection) could help?

I assume(!!!) that battery voltage up to 60V should be possible on the "newer" BionX motors built from 2010...

I don't now if the "soft start" function on the built in controller still works. (slow precharging of the capacitors)
BionX_BMS_Ersatzschaltung_ElektrischerAufbau.PNG
BionX_BMS_Ersatzschaltung_ElektrischerAufbau.PNG (236.18 KiB) Viewed 1958 times

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 14 2018 11:32pm

Kudos to that man! Having that info makes it cake to DIY packs, it's so fortunate so many nice motors/drives won't be scrap.
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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by justin_le » Apr 18 2018 4:54am

Syonyk wrote:
Apr 07 2018 11:57am

Who has a spare $10k and is into ebikes? That's a harder question...
Ha ha. Well enough people that we've been able to "give the finger" to the royal bank of Canada after they several times denied our application for a reasonable business line of credit some years ago! (Apparently not owning a house or a car makes you quite unworthy in their eyes.. )

Anyways I wanted to touch base back to much earlier in the thread when people were speculating on the cause BionX going insolvent like this. itselelectric earlier wrote this which was news to me
Itelectric wrote:The real reason that BionX filed bankruptcy:
• It is not because proprietary system
• It is not because lace of market share or cost too much

The reason as the following events:
• Magna is one of larger auto parts company in Canada, owned by Frank Stronach, major partner GM, FORD, BMW, etc…
• Magna wanted get into e-car components / motor for auto industries, such as GM and Ford
• Magna purchased Bionx to gain electric motor technologies in 2008
• There was a project arrangement between Bionx and GM to develop some type electric car motor
• Bionx was unable to deliver the project on term
• GM fined BionX for 4M+ penalty for breach of contract
• BionX was unable to pay for penalty, and this is one of the major reason why BionX went under
• There are will be 60 – 90 days to find a new buyer/investor, until then everything up in the air
And it looks like this was almost entirely correct. There is now actually a ton of public information about this currently available on the Grant Thorton website which has all of the court proceedings between BionX and GM that sheds light on the fallout of that relationship.
https://www.grantthornton.ca/en/service ... Canada-Inc

It makes for some very interesting reading in how big business contracts can go south. The project was not for an electric car motor but for 8000 pieces of a new mid-drive system for an electric bike that GM was having produced by a "Chinese Manufacturer". Here is a summary document
https://docs.grantthornton.ca/document- ... 1524040747

And a much more detailed one that is for a legal document pretty readable.
https://docs.grantthornton.ca/document- ... 1524040747
The Ebike Program.jpg
The Ebike Program.jpg (50.54 KiB) Viewed 1835 times
GM Middrive System.jpg
GM Middrive System.jpg (87.69 KiB) Viewed 1835 times
Beta Program.jpg
Beta Program.jpg (115.27 KiB) Viewed 1835 times
etc.
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
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wineboyrider   100 MW

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by wineboyrider » Apr 18 2018 8:02am

^^^Interesting.
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tomjasz   1.21 GW

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by tomjasz » Apr 19 2018 12:47am

Jeebus, welcome to N. American business acumen.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Apr 19 2018 10:18am

Appears there might have been some slight problems with the collaboration, too bad, a lot of us would like to buy a made in N. America drive system. Look for a new movie coming soon to a theater near you-"Who Killed The Electric Bike?"
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Above all run on 14s4p 52v li-ion
Ecobike folder 36v
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Every trip made with electric bike is one less car trip, saves money, no toxic fumes, less noise, less impact on roads.

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eCue   10 kW

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by eCue » Apr 19 2018 1:15pm

Itelectric wrote:
• Magna purchased Bionx to gain electric motor technologies in 2008
• There was a project arrangement between Bionx and GM to develop some type electric car motor
• Bionx was unable to deliver the project on term
GM fined BionX for 4M+ penalty for breach of contract
• BionX was unable to pay for penalty, and this is one of the major reason why BionX went under

• There are will be 60 – 90 days to find a new buyer/investor, until then everything up in the air
Sounds to me like the company has been looted if it cant pay the 4 million dollar fine.
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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by Syonyk » Apr 20 2018 2:40pm

Cephalotus wrote:
Apr 14 2018 8:17pm
A member of the German Pedelecforum posted this "emergency solution" if you do not have a BionX battery.

If you do that the console takes longer to react, you lose the battery gauge and the clock.

sadly also recuperation will not work.

Maybe deactivating code 3774 (overvolt protection) could help?

I assume(!!!) that battery voltage up to 60V should be possible on the "newer" BionX motors built from 2010...

I don't now if the "soft start" function on the built in controller still works. (slow precharging of the capacitors)

BionX_BMS_Ersatzschaltung_ElektrischerAufbau.PNG
I'm not sure you need the +5V - I'm not sure where the CAN High line comes from. It wouldn't surprise me if it was from the battery pack, though...

Regen not working is no surprise, the controller can't know the battery state and if it's safe to push more current in.

But, yes, that looks quite reasonable and I've been messing with that sort of thing myself as well.
Battery packs, Sunkko Welders, and more. http://syonyk.blogspot.com/

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by Chalo » Apr 20 2018 6:08pm

tomjasz wrote:
Apr 19 2018 12:47am
Jeebus, welcome to N. American business acumen.
Partnering with GM? That seems like something you'd only do if you were a big enough player to take over the remnants after they destroy themselves.

Any bike industry business that's stupid enough to collaborate with a stinking car business deserves to fail.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by MadRhino » Apr 20 2018 10:39pm

I guess GM was hoping for Bionix proprietary systems expertise, so that no one but themselves could fix their cars or supply replacement parts. :mrgreen:

My last car was a Buick Century. It’s been rotting for so long that a 30 ft tree with an 8 inch trunk had grown through.

I still have a running ´69 Landcruiser though, that my neighbour is using as a tractor sometimes. I hadn’t sat in it since 1997. :wink:
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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tomjasz   1.21 GW

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by tomjasz » Apr 22 2018 5:47pm

MadRhino wrote:
Apr 20 2018 10:39pm
´69 Landcruiser though, that my neighbour is using as a tractor sometimes. I hadn’t sat in it since 1997. :wink:
My dream vehicle. Diesel Landcruiser. Car, truck, tractor, stump puller, snow day rescue vehicles, and all round best vehicle I ever owned. Nearly impossible to find except a few in Canada. It ran like champ on Jet A.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by guelao78 » Apr 26 2018 8:22am

Syonyk wrote:
Apr 20 2018 2:40pm
Cephalotus wrote:
Apr 14 2018 8:17pm
A member of the German Pedelecforum posted this "emergency solution" if you do not have a BionX battery.

If you do that the console takes longer to react, you lose the battery gauge and the clock.

sadly also recuperation will not work.

Maybe deactivating code 3774 (overvolt protection) could help?

I assume(!!!) that battery voltage up to 60V should be possible on the "newer" BionX motors built from 2010...

I don't now if the "soft start" function on the built in controller still works. (slow precharging of the capacitors)

BionX_BMS_Ersatzschaltung_ElektrischerAufbau.PNG
I'm not sure you need the +5V - I'm not sure where the CAN High line comes from. It wouldn't surprise me if it was from the battery pack, though...

Regen not working is no surprise, the controller can't know the battery state and if it's safe to push more current in.

But, yes, that looks quite reasonable and I've been messing with that sort of thing myself as well.
From what I understood from reading here and there:
- Apparently you need the 5V to keep the console alive.
- The CAN High line and CAN Low are "communication signals" (into/out of the battery): they allow communication with the motor and console. The 260ohm is working as "termination resistor" (closing/terminating the CAN bus communication line. This way the battery is isolated from the communication loop).
Cheers,
Miguel

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by Cephalotus » Jun 02 2018 7:36am

Any news?

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by BobG » Jun 09 2018 5:23pm

Not good news Cephalotus. Here's the latest report dated June 8, 2018. Looks like they've narrowed it down to three buyers to divide most of the assets. The top two appear to be auction houses. The entire document is 517 pages, mostly appendices. Click on "summary of the sale process" at table of contents then scroll down to "the results of sale process .

https://goo.gl/iZhPxj

"101. The Accepted Purchasers and the respective Parcel Offers are summarized as follows:

(a) Crescent Commercial Corporation: Parcels 8 to 24;
(b) 7575289 Canada Inc.: Parcels 2, 3, and 5; and
(c) Amego Electric Vehicles Inc.: Parcel 1."

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justin_le   10 MW

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by justin_le » Jun 09 2018 9:33pm

BobG wrote:
Jun 09 2018 5:23pm
(a) Crescent Commercial Corporation: Parcels 8 to 24;
Well these parcels include all the goodies from the perspective of a budding ebike manufacturing company. Hopefully Crescent Commercial's auction process allows for online registration and bidding!
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by eCue » Jun 12 2018 9:02pm

The plot thickens
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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by Cephalotus » Jun 13 2018 4:32am

BobG wrote:
Jun 09 2018 5:23pm
Not good news Cephalotus. Here's the latest report dated June 8, 2018.
Thank you.

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LockH   100 GW

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by LockH » Jun 18 2018 3:12pm

Just posted to the BionX electric bike Owners group on FacePlant (sp?)...
BionX stores in Europe will be continued

Dear Distributors & Dealers,

We would like to inform you about the current state of insolvency of BionX Canada.

Since February 27, 2018, BionX Canada Inc., based in Aurora, Canada, is under bankruptcy administration. At the beginning of June, individual assets of BionX Canada were sold to three independent companies. The business in North America should not be continued according to the current state.

By contrast, BionX GmbH continues to do business. Important parts, such as the subsidiary itself as well as licenses, name and production rights and the software are still for sale. The European headquarters in Haar near Munich is currently working under pressure on a relocation of engine production. The delivery of batteries has already been successfully directed to Europe. Spare parts deliveries and warranty claims can continue to be guaranteed with only a few restrictions. BionX Europe GmbH, based in Weiz, Austria, is closed.
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
(Ebikers Anonymous - Where we're all miserable failures, but the parties are hilarious...)

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Re: The end of BionX?

Post by Syonyk » Jun 18 2018 8:54pm

Welp.

Gonna be an awful lot of pissed North American owners with dead systems here in the next few years.
Battery packs, Sunkko Welders, and more. http://syonyk.blogspot.com/

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