The end of BionX?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
markz
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 5244
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: The end of BionX?

Post by markz » Apr 05, 2018 6:50 pm

You can become a GRINVESTOR and receive ebike products.
http://www.ebikes.ca/about-us/grinvestors.html
I learned of this a year or two ago, I found it quite a unique way for Justin to raise capitol.

User avatar
spinningmagnets
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 10917
Joined: Dec 21, 2007 10:27 pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: The end of BionX?

Post by spinningmagnets » Apr 05, 2018 7:03 pm

Speaking of hacking an orphaned BionX D-series hub...out of the currently available sensorless 6-FET controllers, is there one that stands out as working well with high electrical frequencies?

User avatar
LockH
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 14759
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm
Location: Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then started to move around... Oh oh.

Re: The end of BionX?

Post by LockH » Apr 05, 2018 7:07 pm

DANG Wish I has money to invest in Lord Justin/Grin Tech.... UNfortunatey, living "life below the poverty line", politicians and taxpayers think that a "starvation diet" will save them some money "down the road". [Sigh]
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

markz
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 5244
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: The end of BionX?

Post by markz » Apr 05, 2018 10:38 pm

willing to loan a minimum of $10,000 to a maximum of $100,000 to Grin for at least 12 months. For the duration that the funds are on loan, you will receive 8% annual interest payment in the form Grin Tech store credit.
8% aint too shabby but who has a spare $10k just laying around. Imagine investing $100k, oh the things I'd get, thats $8k worth of Grintech stuff!

Syonyk
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 505
Joined: May 16, 2015 12:41 am

Re: The end of BionX?

Post by Syonyk » Apr 07, 2018 11:57 am

markz wrote:
Apr 05, 2018 10:38 pm
8% aint too shabby but who has a spare $10k just laying around. Imagine investing $100k, oh the things I'd get, thats $8k worth of Grintech stuff!
Empirically, an awful lot of people.

Who has a spare $10k and is into ebikes? That's a harder question...
Battery packs, Sunkko Welders, and more. http://syonyk.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2348
Joined: Feb 09, 2007 3:02 am
Location: Marlboro

Re: The end of BionX?

Post by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh » Apr 07, 2018 12:36 pm

markz wrote:
Apr 05, 2018 10:38 pm
willing to loan a minimum of $10,000 to a maximum of $100,000 to Grin for at least 12 months. For the duration that the funds are on loan, you will receive 8% annual interest payment in the form Grin Tech store credit.
8% aint too shabby but who has a spare $10k just laying around. Imagine investing $100k, oh the things I'd get, thats $8k worth of Grintech stuff!
here's a thought.

you know how on kickstarter & the like in addtion to your roi you also get a t-shirt or some other bonus?
how about as an added incentive invest $100k get your name in red on E•S as a part owner.
and not just the colour but full priveleges that come with ruling elite status.
like the epaulletes & riding crop, immunity from moderation, the whole magilla.
i would liquidate some holdings for dat.

i can hear barentz sphincter puckering already.
Last edited by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh on Apr 15, 2018 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kick down the barricades Listen what the kids say.
From time to time people change their minds But the Frock is here to stay.
I've seen it all from the bottom to the top Everywhere I go the kids wanna Frock.
Around the world or around the block Everywhere I go the kids wanna Frock.

Cephalotus
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 412
Joined: Jun 18, 2012 12:27 pm

Re: The end of BionX?

Post by Cephalotus » Apr 14, 2018 8:17 pm

A member of the German Pedelecforum posted this "emergency solution" if you do not have a BionX battery.

If you do that the console takes longer to react, you lose the battery gauge and the clock.

sadly also recuperation will not work.

Maybe deactivating code 3774 (overvolt protection) could help?

I assume(!!!) that battery voltage up to 60V should be possible on the "newer" BionX motors built from 2010...

I don't now if the "soft start" function on the built in controller still works. (slow precharging of the capacitors)
BionX_BMS_Ersatzschaltung_ElektrischerAufbau.PNG
BionX_BMS_Ersatzschaltung_ElektrischerAufbau.PNG (236.18 KiB) Viewed 490 times

User avatar
liveforphysics
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 14617
Joined: Oct 29, 2008 1:48 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Re: The end of BionX?

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 14, 2018 11:32 pm

Kudos to that man! Having that info makes it cake to DIY packs, it's so fortunate so many nice motors/drives won't be scrap.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

User avatar
justin_le
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2096
Joined: May 28, 2007 3:27 am
Location: Vancouver
Contact:

Re: The end of BionX?

Post by justin_le » Apr 18, 2018 4:54 am

Syonyk wrote:
Apr 07, 2018 11:57 am

Who has a spare $10k and is into ebikes? That's a harder question...
Ha ha. Well enough people that we've been able to "give the finger" to the royal bank of Canada after they several times denied our application for a reasonable business line of credit some years ago! (Apparently not owning a house or a car makes you quite unworthy in their eyes.. )

Anyways I wanted to touch base back to much earlier in the thread when people were speculating on the cause BionX going insolvent like this. itselelectric earlier wrote this which was news to me
Itelectric wrote:The real reason that BionX filed bankruptcy:
• It is not because proprietary system
• It is not because lace of market share or cost too much

The reason as the following events:
• Magna is one of larger auto parts company in Canada, owned by Frank Stronach, major partner GM, FORD, BMW, etc…
• Magna wanted get into e-car components / motor for auto industries, such as GM and Ford
• Magna purchased Bionx to gain electric motor technologies in 2008
• There was a project arrangement between Bionx and GM to develop some type electric car motor
• Bionx was unable to deliver the project on term
• GM fined BionX for 4M+ penalty for breach of contract
• BionX was unable to pay for penalty, and this is one of the major reason why BionX went under
• There are will be 60 – 90 days to find a new buyer/investor, until then everything up in the air
And it looks like this was almost entirely correct. There is now actually a ton of public information about this currently available on the Grant Thorton website which has all of the court proceedings between BionX and GM that sheds light on the fallout of that relationship.
https://www.grantthornton.ca/en/service ... Canada-Inc

It makes for some very interesting reading in how big business contracts can go south. The project was not for an electric car motor but for 8000 pieces of a new mid-drive system for an electric bike that GM was having produced by a "Chinese Manufacturer". Here is a summary document
https://docs.grantthornton.ca/document- ... 1524040747

And a much more detailed one that is for a legal document pretty readable.
https://docs.grantthornton.ca/document- ... 1524040747
The Ebike Program.jpg
The Ebike Program.jpg (50.54 KiB) Viewed 367 times
GM Middrive System.jpg
GM Middrive System.jpg (87.69 KiB) Viewed 367 times
Beta Program.jpg
Beta Program.jpg (115.27 KiB) Viewed 367 times
etc.
Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with prototype 26" Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 11Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

User avatar
wineboyrider
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2966
Joined: Sep 30, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Tularosa, New Mexico
Contact:

Re: The end of BionX?

Post by wineboyrider » Apr 18, 2018 8:02 am

^^^Interesting.
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

tomjasz
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3831
Joined: Mar 29, 2014 1:45 pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: The end of BionX?

Post by tomjasz » Apr 19, 2018 12:47 am

Jeebus, welcome to N. American business acumen.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

Raisedeyebrows
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 346
Joined: May 13, 2017 1:39 pm
Location: Oregon/South Point Hawaii USA back and forth

Re: The end of BionX?

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Apr 19, 2018 10:18 am

Appears there might have been some slight problems with the collaboration, too bad, a lot of us would like to buy a made in N. America drive system. Look for a new movie coming soon to a theater near you-"Who Killed The Electric Bike?"
Yuba Mundo w/BBSHD
Specialized Hard Rock w/9c clone, statoraid, hubsink
Trek Fuel 90 w/BBSHD
Above all run on 14s4p 52v li-ion
Ecobike folder 36v
Currie Flyer scooter 24v on 24ah of SLA

User avatar
eCue
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 488
Joined: Nov 03, 2017 5:14 pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: The end of BionX?

Post by eCue » Apr 19, 2018 1:15 pm

Itelectric wrote:
• Magna purchased Bionx to gain electric motor technologies in 2008
• There was a project arrangement between Bionx and GM to develop some type electric car motor
• Bionx was unable to deliver the project on term
GM fined BionX for 4M+ penalty for breach of contract
• BionX was unable to pay for penalty, and this is one of the major reason why BionX went under

• There are will be 60 – 90 days to find a new buyer/investor, until then everything up in the air
Sounds to me like the company has been looted if it cant pay the 4 million dollar fine.
Good ridden's
Solar charge station on wheels join the Revolution

Syonyk
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 505
Joined: May 16, 2015 12:41 am

Re: The end of BionX?

Post by Syonyk » Apr 20, 2018 2:40 pm

Cephalotus wrote:
Apr 14, 2018 8:17 pm
A member of the German Pedelecforum posted this "emergency solution" if you do not have a BionX battery.

If you do that the console takes longer to react, you lose the battery gauge and the clock.

sadly also recuperation will not work.

Maybe deactivating code 3774 (overvolt protection) could help?

I assume(!!!) that battery voltage up to 60V should be possible on the "newer" BionX motors built from 2010...

I don't now if the "soft start" function on the built in controller still works. (slow precharging of the capacitors)

BionX_BMS_Ersatzschaltung_ElektrischerAufbau.PNG
I'm not sure you need the +5V - I'm not sure where the CAN High line comes from. It wouldn't surprise me if it was from the battery pack, though...

Regen not working is no surprise, the controller can't know the battery state and if it's safe to push more current in.

But, yes, that looks quite reasonable and I've been messing with that sort of thing myself as well.
Battery packs, Sunkko Welders, and more. http://syonyk.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Chalo
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 6663
Joined: Apr 29, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: The end of BionX?

Post by Chalo » Apr 20, 2018 6:08 pm

tomjasz wrote:
Apr 19, 2018 12:47 am
Jeebus, welcome to N. American business acumen.
Partnering with GM? That seems like something you'd only do if you were a big enough player to take over the remnants after they destroy themselves.

Any bike industry business that's stupid enough to collaborate with a stinking car business deserves to fail.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

User avatar
MadRhino
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 5071
Joined: Sep 03, 2010 5:28 pm
Location: Montreal QC Canada

Re: The end of BionX?

Post by MadRhino » Apr 20, 2018 10:39 pm

I guess GM was hoping for Bionix proprietary systems expertise, so that no one but themselves could fix their cars or supply replacement parts. :mrgreen:

My last car was a Buick Century. It’s been rotting for so long that a 30 ft tree with an 8 inch trunk had grown through.

I still have a running ´69 Landcruiser though, that my neighbour is using as a tractor sometimes. I hadn’t sat in it since 1997. :wink:
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

tomjasz
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3831
Joined: Mar 29, 2014 1:45 pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: The end of BionX?

Post by tomjasz » Apr 22, 2018 5:47 pm

MadRhino wrote:
Apr 20, 2018 10:39 pm
´69 Landcruiser though, that my neighbour is using as a tractor sometimes. I hadn’t sat in it since 1997. :wink:
My dream vehicle. Diesel Landcruiser. Car, truck, tractor, stump puller, snow day rescue vehicles, and all round best vehicle I ever owned. Nearly impossible to find except a few in Canada. It ran like champ on Jet A.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

Post Reply