Advice from Aussie ebikers - help me decide on best option

I've commuted an 8km round trip for the last couple of years (non electric bike), but my new job is approximately 24 km each way. I could ride it on a regular bike, but I'm not excited about a 70+ minute commute.

I'm willing to spend up to $3K AUD to buy/build an ebike which will allow me to comfortably travel at 35 - 40 kmh.

I've come up with the following options and I'd like to hear feedback from fellow Aussies:

1. Convert my Jamis Coda (steel city bike) with a 350w hub motor (powerful enough to help with the commute, not powerful enough to break my forks or get me into trouble). I prefer the idea of a front hub motor due to the slightly easier installation and better weight distribution, but I'm open to other options. Any recommendations on good kits?
2. Buy a powerful factory ebike of questionable street legality e.g. Juiced Crosscurrent ($2700, has 350w Bafang internally geared hub motor, can be 'tuned' to remove pedelec speed cap - supposedly capable of up to 45kmh with moderate pedaling)
3. Buy a big name factory ebike e.g. a mid range Avanti or Merida with Shimano Steps crank motor, bypass the speed sensor, swap to a bigger chainring to increase top speed achievable from pedaling and motor assist.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

Hiya... Canada here, eh?

http://dillengerelectricbikes.com.au/blog/electric-bikes-and-the-law.html

Includes:

the motor must be speed limited to 25km/h. If you are riding off road however, there are no limits.

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So. "new job is approximately 24 km each way"... Any/much "off road" on yer trip? :wink: Re "saving money" - EVerybuddy's fav topic?... At higher speeds check out "aerodynamic drag", where costs of cutting through air escalate rapidly. EG "fast" bikes these daze - antique, retro, vintage, museum-quality, etc pedal-only bikes ("Poop-Mobiles") go velomobile... like this:


... or this:


So yah might decide how much aero drag ya want to pay for... for the rest of your life...

EDIT: Just to add... I'd be looking for a recumbent... preferably a trike ie "tadpole" w/two wheels forward... watt I can add assist too, and EVentually wrap in a case/cover/shell a la velomobile-style.

Thanks LockH, I've considered recumbents and velomobiles but they're not ideal for storage in my case - I couldn't fit one in the bike cage at work or in my small garage at home. A conventional upright cycle is also a bit easier around my city (you often need to pass in narrow gaps between parked cars and traffic / tram tracks.

You have however got me thinking about more aero style drop bar roadbikes. One of those with a little 250w motor and perhaps an added windscreen / front fairing could do well!

Technologically, what you want is no big deal. The real issue is legality. To stay legal in Australia (from what I recall), you will want to be as light and aerodynamic as is practical if you want to achieve those speeds given the limited power output allowed. And that strongly argues for a recumbent. If that's out of the question, then yes, a drop bar road bike is probably next best - either that, or a custom frame that is perhaps semi-recumbent. I've seen a few custom frames here that have a feet forward lower seat design that might work. Also, keep in mind that some recumbents have relatively short wheelbases and some can be folded.

If you are willing to be illegal, then you should probably look for less than obvious small geared hub and make sure you mount your battery so that it looks like regular bike gear.

Hi Oz... "a little 250w motor"... Hehe... American cousins get to ride one whole horse (750 watt...), while Canadians get to ride ponies... (500 watts)...However... Canadian laws say 500W continuous... without mentioning PEAKS... :wink:
Being an urban guy, travels are full of stop-and-goes... so smaller diameter wheels are "where it's at" as far as any/all accelerations are concerned. Faster rates of acceleration from stops. I'm about to plunk down $$$ for a couple of these:


(A "couple" to start, so I can get into the bike rental biz...)

But again, you don't mention % "off road"? (Forgetting those faux "250 watt" stickers for a moment...)

Can't seem to find it offhand... a long thread on ES re the Oz 250 watt law... but the Canadian Gov't actually spent a fair bit of time testing "stuff" to come up with their 500 watt laws...:
http://data.tc.gc.ca/archive/eng/innovation/tdc-summary-13700-13732e-681.htm

... but NO idea how/where Oz gov's came up with their 250 number. But rest assured... lots of fear and ignorance mixed in there. :wink:

wturber said:

Technologically, what you want is no big deal. The real issue is legality. To stay legal in Australia (from what I recall), you will want to be as light and aerodynamic as is practical if you want to achieve those speeds given the limited power output allowed. And that strongly argues for a recumbent. If that's out of the question, then yes, a drop bar road bike is probably next best - either that, or a custom frame that is perhaps semi-recumbent. I've seen a few custom frames here that have a feet forward lower seat design that might work. Also, keep in mind that some recumbents have relatively short wheelbases and some can be folded.

If you are willing to be illegal, then you should probably look for less than obvious small geared hub and make sure you mount your battery so that it looks like regular bike gear.

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You're right that local law limits ebike motors to 250w, that said, if a motor is sold/labelled as 250w, but is capable of running at higher wattage with the right battery and controller then I doubt anyone's going to question it. I don't imagine the authorities will bother analysing the electrical system or putting the bike on a dyno tuner.

kontrakode said:

You're right that local law limits ebike motors to 250w, that said, if a motor is sold/labelled as 250w, but is capable of running at higher wattage with the right battery and controller then I doubt anyone's going to question it. I don't imagine the authorities will bother analysing the electrical system or putting the bike on a dyno tuner.

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If you are willing to push those interpretations and make those assumptions about enforcement, then I think you should look into some of the small or mid-sized geared hub motors (I'm thinking Q100 or Q128, though there are surely other options) and mount the batteries in what appears to be a standard rack bag/case, or in standard panniers/saddlebags. While bottle and triangle batteries may be better for handling, carrying 20-30 pounds of battery on a well constructed rear rack is no big deal for a commuter bike. I painted my aluminum cased controller matte black and mounted it underneath by matte black rear rack. I think it becomes nearly invisible to most people and I few people notice it there. My huge DD hub motor, however, is a dead give-away.

The 48v 1000 watt kit I recently installed has a function where you can add a switch to the blue wire and go from 250 to 1000 watts.
I haven't done this as this is my throttle only 'beast mode' bike.
I have a 250 watt bafang conversion for when I'm being good

I'm in a similar position, having gone from 12km to 23km across Adelaide. It's taking me 70 minutes, and it's hard to justify the extra hour a day it takes compared to driving. I've been looking at what sort of time electric power would add.

Of the 70 minutes, around 15 are stopped at intersections and slowing down to those stops, so without changing the route, those times won't really change. Of the remaining 55 minutes, they are dominated by travel currently around 25km/h. A typical trip will have 40 minutes between 20 and 30km/h. Using a speed/power calculator and estimating my current power at 180W, adding another 200W from a motor would bring the 25km/h up to 35km/h. Adding a further 200W would get up to 41km/h.

In terms of time, the 200W of assist would bring the 55mins component down to 39minutes, and the 400W take it to 34 minutes. So that's a 16 minute saving for the first 200W of assist, and a further 5 minutes for an extra 200W. There are diminishing returns on going higher still unless the extra speed allows me to move to faster roads and reduce the stopping and slowing at intersections. Before doing the calculations, I had been hoping the time savings would be better than this, but still half an hour a day is a significant amount of time, and closes the gap somewhat compared to driving.

I'm favouring limiting output to 200W to keep it legal, given that you need to add quite a lot more to make a much more difference, but there is some incentive in chasing down those extra few minutes. Battery size starts becoming an issue too.

I'm thinking to go with a Q100C rear hub motor and controller and battery from BMS battery. I prefer a hub motor over mid drive as my route is fairly flat, and I could do without the extra chain and sprocket wear. I've thought about getting a bike with drop bars, disk brakes and pannier mounts, but there aren't a lot that fit that bill.

The 350w sounds good to me, I think going too powerful will end badly over time. I have had police sit in their cop cars while I am at the lights stair at my ebike with a kind of scary fury in their eyes, its something you can't forget quickly.

In inner Melbourne, if I ride during the middle of the day its pretty much MORE ebikes on the road than normal bicycles, its shocking sudden change over the last year, seems like everyone must have one, I never thought there would be so many, I thought most people would see them as lame and the opposite reason of why you buy a bicycle in the first place, but this mentality doesn't seem to be that common anymore.
It might actually be just all the state government/Dan Andrews Melbourne road projects have driven people truly insane and they have given up on public transport or cars in general..
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-08/melbourne-traffic-congestion-infrastructure-more-chaos-expected/9523192
Realistically I think this^ is the most logical explanation, the recent explosion of ebikers in Melbourne is just scary

Also I think 1/4th of it is Deliveroo and Ubereats, everyone seems to be getting an electric bike for this job.
Then there are just a lot of regular commuters (usually around 30) who have dished out for an ebike. A lot of them ride just as fast and impatiently as regular cyclists, which is bad because its just extra charged up bike speeds.
A lot of ebikers speed around acting like somehow there doing the whole world a favor riding at high speed.

I think we might eventually hit New York style extreme crack down, where any ebike even a 250w one is illegal, and that even if its locked up at premises, the premises is issued a fine just for having an ebike there.

OneJohn said:

Of the 70 minutes, around 15 are stopped at intersections and slowing down to those stops, so without changing the route, those times won't really change. Of the remaining 55 minutes, they are dominated by travel currently around 25km/h. A typical trip will have 40 minutes between 20 and 30km/h. Using a speed/power calculator and estimating my current power at 180W, adding another 200W from a motor would bring the 25km/h up to 35km/h. Adding a further 200W would get up to 41km/h.

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With slightly over 1000 watts of power but with an average consumption of about 20 watt hours/mile, I find that if I chart a route in Google maps and multiply the trip time by 60%, I get a pretty good estimate of my actual trip time. It sure would be nice if Google Maps could let you set a factor to associate to the choice of a bike for a trip.