Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

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Lovelock   10 W

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Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Lovelock » Mar 24 2018 5:14am

Hi, new poster and new the eBike scene so please bare with me, delete this post if required or link me to the correct Wiki information if I have missed anything.

I've been researching and looking at videos but could really do with some advice from genuine people responding to a question(s) to help with my purchase to give recommendations.

So the quick scenario is:

I've been communing to work on my road bike but now have another job. The current ride is around 3 miles (18 minutes) and fairly hilly in sections. The new job is 6 miles each way and estimated to be around 30 minutes ride, again averagely hilly but nothing extreme.

The new job isn't one where I want to be showering at work from the 30 minutes ride so have looked into electric bike conversion as a bit of fun and also a better way to commute.

The issue is, I don't want to be messing around with my current road bike and changing it to have the cut off brakes provided with the kits. I'm going to sell my road bike and replace it with a hybrid bike including front suspension.

Picture for reference:

Image

My research has led me down the Bafang route as I really wan't to keep things subtle, I know there is the BBS02 750 etc but if theres a more powerful version of something... I want it. So the BBSHD is the one I would probably go for.

I've found a few kits available on AliExpress (i'm in the UK) and can get:

BBSHD Including triangle battery £812: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/EU-US-N ... autifyAB=0

Or the BBSHD kit by itself (no battery, could have some import tax) £500: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... f9daZA5Sgw

My main question is: Should I buy one with the battery? My need for only 6 miles range (can charge at work) should allow me to have a fairly small battery? Im only 5'4 and my bike frames are pretty small. If I don't buy one with a battery is there a recommendation on a smaller battery (maybe bottle type) that will give me all the power but doesn't have the range as its not required?

Also, the Bafang looks great. But if theres another mid drive system that is more powerful or cheaper or perhaps there is a better way or purchasing the Bafang other than AliExpress please let me know.

All advise welcome, just looking for a nudge in the right direction to make my mind up and start building something fun.

EDIT: If there are any rear hub kits that could also fit the bill and provide plenty of power but are literally plug and play on a 700c wheel thats cool too.

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 24 2018 7:04am

I've ridden dozens of different kits, and I own two ebikes at present. The one I ride the most is a BBSHD. It's easy to find a kit that is more powerful, but the BBSHD has a balance of features that appeals to me. More powerful kits exist, but...they might be louder or more complex to install, plus they might draw attention. I'm not doing anything illegal, but I do like to quietly ride down the jogging paths without getting anyone angry at me.

If you want to go 30-MPH (48 km/h), it can do that, but...most of my cruising is closer to 20-MPH (32 km/h), so...I have opted to install a smaller chainring. This helps keep the motor RPMs up in all gears, and it improves hill-climbing ability.

As to the battery (since you are in the UK), I would get a battery that has the ability to provide temporary peaks of 30A, in order to have all the power that you have paid for when you buy a BBSHD. Of course cruising amps will be lower, but...if the battery can only provide 20A, then that's all you'll get. Find the smallest battery that can provide 30A. The stock controller will run off of 13S or 14S (48V / 52V)

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Lovelock » Mar 24 2018 1:44pm

spinningmagnets wrote:
Mar 24 2018 7:04am
I've ridden dozens of different kits, and I own two ebikes at present. The one I ride the most is a BBSHD. It's easy to find a kit that is more powerful, but the BBSHD has a balance of features that appeals to me. More powerful kits exist, but...they might be louder or more complex to install, plus they might draw attention. I'm not doing anything illegal, but I do like to quietly ride down the jogging paths without getting anyone angry at me.

If you want to go 30-MPH (48 km/h), it can do that, but...most of my cruising is closer to 20-MPH (32 km/h), so...I have opted to install a smaller chainring. This helps keep the motor RPMs up in all gears, and it improves hill-climbing ability.

As to the battery (since you are in the UK), I would get a battery that has the ability to provide temporary peaks of 30A, in order to have all the power that you have paid for when you buy a BBSHD. Of course cruising amps will be lower, but...if the battery can only provide 20A, then that's all you'll get. Find the smallest battery that can provide 30A. The stock controller will run off of 13S or 14S (48V / 52V)
Thanks for the quick reply, I feel I got carried away and diluted my question so thanks for the response regarding power.

The BBSHD will certainly be my choice it seems! Would you recommend in this case then me buying the unit itself as the second option from AliExpress?

I have no idea on the batteries really, would someone be able to link me to one so I can read more about the type I require and get an example? I had a thought too for the subtle factor, I can put the battery in my backpack?

Finally, what determines how long a batteries range roughly? Is there an easy way to tell something will last 10 miles vs 20 etc?

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by zro-1 » Mar 24 2018 2:10pm

Luna's mighty mini cube would work well with a BBSHD and still be small and light.
https://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs/5 ... -3-pounds/

Edit: Also, there's a pretty thorough article over on ElectricBike about watt-hours and range: https://www.electricbike.com/watt-hours/
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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Mar 24 2018 5:36pm

Here is a trusted source of BBSHD kits and excellent quality batteries:

https://em3ev.com/shop/bafang-48v-1000w ... rrency=USD
Yuba Mundo w/BBSHD
Specialized Hard Rock w/9c clone, statoraid, hubsink
Trek Fuel 90 w/BBSHD
Above all run on 14s4p 52v li-ion
Ecobike folder 36v
Currie Flyer scooter 24v on 24ah of SLA

Every trip made with electric bike is one less car trip, saves money, no toxic fumes, less noise, less impact on roads.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Lovelock » Mar 26 2018 6:00am

Thanks for the replies.

LunaCycle look interesting but they quote 6 - 8 weeks to ship a battery... i'm pretty impatient.

EM3EV looks okay, so many options when trying to a order a kit. Will contact Luna first though to confirm their shipping estimate is right.

It works out around £850 incl. shipping and tax from Luna for a BBSHD with The Mighty Mini Battery.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by dogman dan » Mar 26 2018 7:30am

Here's the rub. as said above, you need a battery able to briefly put out 30 amps, without serious voltage sag under load, if you want to run the more powerful kit. That's not going to be a tiny lightweight, affordable battery.

If you are serious about having a small battery, for lighter weight, and not needing more than 12-15 miles range, then you don't want the powerful fast kit. You want the less powerful slower one. You'll find that 20 mph cruising is still a fast ride, compared to most peoples pace pedaling. 15 mph up those hills will be blazing up them.

So I mean the 350w, 36v bafang kit. Then you can use a truly tiny and light 36v 9 or 10 ah pack, and have all the range you need, with a tiny lightweight battery. With less need for max amps, you can go small, without beating your tiny battery to dogshit.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Lovelock » Mar 26 2018 7:54am

dogman dan wrote:
Mar 26 2018 7:30am
Here's the rub. as said above, you need a battery able to briefly put out 30 amps, without serious voltage sag under load, if you want to run the more powerful kit. That's not going to be a tiny lightweight, affordable battery.

If you are serious about having a small battery, for lighter weight, and not needing more than 12-15 miles range, then you don't want the powerful fast kit. You want the less powerful slower one. You'll find that 20 mph cruising is still a fast ride, compared to most peoples pace pedaling. 15 mph up those hills will be blazing up them.

So I mean the 350w, 36v bafang kit. Then you can use a truly tiny and light 36v 9 or 10 ah pack, and have all the range you need, with a tiny lightweight battery. With less need for max amps, you can go small, without beating your tiny battery to dogshit.
Hey, I appreciate your reply.

Im slowly learning more about the motors and capabilities etc so my initial question probably didn't come across in the way I would write now.

I didn't see a link between the size of the battery and the power it output and only thought that size = distance.

I'm not after a the smallest battery possible, as i've now planned on housing it within my backpack so can have something larger.

I guess I was wondering if one of the large batteries which are expensive would still be required If I wasn't travelling far (< 10 miles per charge) but it certainly seems there is more to a battery than just the usage time!

At the end of the day, I just wan't to make sure I purchase the right battery for the job but like most don't wan't to spend out money on a battery that will last 30 miles on a charge if its not required.

Thanks :)

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by wineboyrider » Mar 26 2018 8:13am

Tool pack batteries are now in the 7.5 ah size like EGO and Echo?
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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by craneplaneguy » Mar 26 2018 9:24am

I rode 18 miles of level highway once, with my MINI and BBSHD, with moderate pedaling and at 18 MPH. The voltage ended up, once recovered, (5 minutes after stopping, as opposed to the voltage shown when still riding, was 48 I seem to recall. 52 volt battery. So yeah you could easily do it on a MINI, but what the heck if it was me I'd go with 10-12 AH. Or, get the MINI, see how it "goes", and then you could always get a larger one later. Having more then one battery is pretty common once you really get into e bikes, it allows you a lot more variety in watt you can do, and when.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Lovelock » Mar 26 2018 9:57am

craneplaneguy wrote:
Mar 26 2018 9:24am
I rode 18 miles of level highway once, with my MINI and BBSHD, with moderate pedaling and at 18 MPH. The voltage ended up, once recovered, (5 minutes after stopping, as opposed to the voltage shown when still riding, was 48 I seem to recall. 52 volt battery. So yeah you could easily do it on a MINI, but what the heck if it was me I'd go with 10-12 AH. Or, get the MINI, see how it "goes", and then you could always get a larger one later. Having more then one battery is pretty common once you really get into e bikes, it allows you a lot more variety in watt you can do, and when.
Thanks for the reply. Batteries really are a mystery in my current knowledge :shock:

Can you or anyone else recommend a very good battery for the BBSHD. The previous poster mentioned 52v would be good for acceleration, but 48v for distance. Seeing as I don't need the distance the 52v seems the best option.

Looking around their is all sorts of ah etc. Can anyone say e.g:

52v, make sure more than 10AH and must be X?

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Kitaro1999 » Mar 26 2018 10:18am

IMO, based on my experience, maps to around 12-13 mile of equivalent real life watt-hours.
Your challenge is battery size that fits a smaller frame.

Option 1: Down tube mounted battery
Try the new Wolf pack - https://lunacycle.com/luna-wolf-52v-ebike-battery/ - this should fit most smaller frames. It is on the expensive end for the capacity for sure - but all quality 52V packs start at around $450, so you are effectively paying $150 more for size + convenience, plus better technology.

Option 2: Rear rack mounted battery pack : I have tried both Luna and Em3EV and moth are excellent. I am sure there are EU-centric options but I have a feeling you may be able to build something really good with the rear mount

Option 3: Backpack mounted battery pack : I would not recommend this - they seem great to begin with but weight adds up, and in the long run (6 months or above) you are better off just paying for a better fitted battery pack.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by markz » Mar 26 2018 12:46pm

wineboyrider wrote:
Mar 26 2018 8:13am
Tool pack batteries are now in the 7.5 ah size like EGO and Echo?
Home Depot EGO packs are listed as 56V and are made out of 18650-25R which are Samsung 2.5Ah and 20A so the 7.5Ah pack is rated for 3 Parallel which means 20Ax3=60A (Max. Continuous) The case is stylish green/black. Then just buy the EGO charger and your good to go.

The good thing about the EGO from Home Depot is if you can find a way to use it without modifications, you get a warranty and a 100% known good pack. And Home Depot is everywhere!

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by molybdenum » Mar 26 2018 1:11pm

These toolpacks are an interesting option. It's good to know that, at least in the US, you can get a decent pack in a pinch.
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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Lovelock » Mar 26 2018 3:09pm

Looking around it seems AliExpress is the cheapest I can find what seems to be virtually the same product as other vendors are selling.

Most companies are also out of the UK so buying direct from China is almost the same.

Heres the BBSHD with a battery for £830 shipped to the UK and with no tax.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/48V-100 ... autifyAB=0

My only concern may be the quality of the battery? The kits motor kits themselves are around £600 so the battery he is around £200 - £250. Would this battery be alright? Or stay clear from it, it will only be strapped into the inside of a backpack.

Heres the specs from the advert:

Image

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by markz » Mar 26 2018 4:24pm

Take whatever they say with a grain of salt.

Notice how they did not mention what was used inside the pack. No mention of Sony, LG, Samsung. So you are getting low quality products inside the battery pack. Hence a $200 battery. I'd stay clear of that pack!

Step up to the plate, and dish out more money, its as simple as that. Battery is one area where you never want to skimp.

Main battery page for EM3EV - https://em3ev.com/shop/?product_cat=ebike-battery-parts

A good quality battery at a reasonable price, and while your at it buy their charger - https://em3ev.com/shop/preditor-l-47v-8 ... rrency=USD

Notice how he states which products are used inside his pack. Transparency, known great product, not dicey like some generic bs off alibaba/aliexpress/ebay.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by skeetab5780 » Mar 26 2018 4:28pm

What you really want to do is get a old junk car battery and cut it open and make a battery out of all the smaller cells inside it

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by tommie » Mar 26 2018 4:46pm

Ok, sorta up my street this one,
i`m also in the UK
Have a converted Whyte Hybrid with the BBSHD kit which i bought from China, my second one in fact, https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... a095mvTi97
Amis is the one to contact - also bear in mind FedEx will charge approx £30 extra
Battery?
Do NOT purchase from China or anywhere abroad if you can help it. Why? No1. try sending a battery back to China when it has a faulty cell or the BMS inside fails. It`s just not feasable. No2. theres an excellent battery builder in London, UK, you will get the best cells available and they will construct your battery to the way you want it.
Speak to Jimmy here, and set aside approx half an hour for that as Jim will give you every detail of every cell on the planet, his enthusiasm for battery building will amaze you!

Insat International (BGA): The UK's leading eBike Battery Specialists

http://www.bga-reworking.co.uk/

1A Gateway Mews, Ringway, London N11 2UT

Tel: +44 (0)208 361 1790

Email: info@bga-reworking.co.uk

https://twitter.com/bgainsat

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Lovelock » Mar 26 2018 4:51pm

tommie wrote:
Mar 26 2018 4:46pm
Ok, sorta up my street this one,
i`m also in the UK
Have a converted Whyte Hybrid with the BBSHD kit which i bought from China, my second one in fact, https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... a095mvTi97
Amis is the one to contact - also bear in mind FedEx will charge approx £30 extra
Battery?
Do NOT purchase from China or anywhere abroad if you can help it. Why? No1. try sending a battery back to China when it has a faulty cell or the BMS inside fails. It`s just not feasable. No2. theres an excellent battery builder in London, UK, you will get the best cells available and they will construct your battery to the way you want it.
Speak to Jimmy here, and set aside approx half an hour for that as Jim will give you every detail of every cell on the planet, his enthusiasm for battery building will amaze you!

Insat International (BGA): The UK's leading eBike Battery Specialists

http://www.bga-reworking.co.uk/

1A Gateway Mews, Ringway, London N11 2UT

Tel: +44 (0)208 361 1790

Email: info@bga-reworking.co.uk

https://twitter.com/bgainsat
Hey amazing response!

I'll look into all the contacts you sent.

To the previous posters, its never been about trying to cheap out on batteries. For a newbie there really doesn't seem to a resource that says 'these are the batteries to go for, pick one' its a complete minefield of terms and figures.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by wineboyrider » Mar 26 2018 6:27pm

Two EGO 7.5ah packs would be good for around 15 miles or so...
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by zro-1 » Mar 26 2018 6:32pm

markz wrote:
Mar 26 2018 12:46pm
Home Depot EGO packs are listed as 56V and are made out of 18650-25R which are Samsung 2.5Ah and 20A so the 7.5Ah pack is rated for 3 Parallel which means 20Ax3=60A (Max. Continuous) The case is stylish green/black. Then just buy the EGO charger and your good to go.

The good thing about the EGO from Home Depot is if you can find a way to use it without modifications, you get a warranty and a 100% known good pack. And Home Depot is everywhere!
Dang. Those ego packs are pretty damn cool. That 56V 7.5Ah model is only 4.4 x 6.3 x 7.7 inches. It has a BMS, power gauge, on/off button, and can fast-charge. All with a 3-year warranty. All you need is to buy an extra charger or something to steal the connector from to mount on your bike. Why am I building batteries from scratch?
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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by tomjasz » Mar 26 2018 10:06pm

Kitaro1999 wrote:
Mar 26 2018 10:18am



Option 1: Down tube mounted battery
Try the new Wolf pack - https://lunacycle.com/luna-wolf-52v-ebike-battery/ - this should fit most smaller frames. It is on the expensive end for the capacity for sure - but all quality 52V packs start at around $450, so you are effectively paying $150 more for size + convenience, plus better technology.



.
anyone have one yet? Any end user reports?
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by docw009 » Mar 27 2018 11:37am

zro-1 wrote:
Mar 26 2018 6:32pm
Dang. Those ego packs are pretty damn cool. That 56V 7.5Ah model is only 4.4 x 6.3 x 7.7 inches. It has a BMS, power gauge, on/off button, and can fast-charge. All with a 3-year warranty. All you need is to buy an extra charger or something to steal the connector from to mount on your bike. Why am I building batteries from scratch?
That's probably a 14S-3P battery for the same price as a 14S-2P mini. Both need chargers. $70 for an Ego charger. Similar price for a dreaded Luna Charger. I see a used Ego charger on ebay for $16 which could be scrapped to get a battery mount. Sounds good, but will the Ego push 30A consistently? The Ryobi's don't.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Mar 27 2018 11:49am

tomjasz wrote:
Mar 26 2018 10:06pm
Kitaro1999 wrote:
Mar 26 2018 10:18am



Option 1: Down tube mounted battery
Try the new Wolf pack - https://lunacycle.com/luna-wolf-52v-ebike-battery/ - this should fit most smaller frames. It is on the expensive end for the capacity for sure - but all quality 52V packs start at around $450, so you are effectively paying $150 more for size + convenience, plus better technology.



.
anyone have one yet? Any end user reports?
I'm interested in hearing any actual user reports too, I know those are a new product. They are saying the batteries are fully potted and completely waterproof, wouldn't that mean the pack could never be opened by a user in case they needed to do something relatively simple like change a broken plug if they really needed to in a pinch? Or say there was a problem with the battery and a person wished to open it up and peek in to inspect connections?
Yuba Mundo w/BBSHD
Specialized Hard Rock w/9c clone, statoraid, hubsink
Trek Fuel 90 w/BBSHD
Above all run on 14s4p 52v li-ion
Ecobike folder 36v
Currie Flyer scooter 24v on 24ah of SLA

Every trip made with electric bike is one less car trip, saves money, no toxic fumes, less noise, less impact on roads.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Firedog » Mar 27 2018 12:04pm

I like tool batteries for all builds. For a short trip bike, they are really well suited. My choice is Makita or Makita clones because of cost, compact size and easy to build mountings. The 15 cell clones 5s3p with quality cells is my first choice because they can easily handle 30 amps. Genuine Makita 10 cells battery (or 10 cell clones) would work fine with 500w or less motors.

Use 2 in series for 36v controllers; 3 in series for 48V. (3*18=54v, but so far no issues with 48V controllers). Available capacities 1.5 to 10.5 ah. I get 2 fast miles/ah on flat with pedaling. More in EU mode. Recharge time on Makita rapid charger 20 to 90 minutes.
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