Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

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Lovelock   10 W

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Lovelock » Mar 27 2018 2:57pm

Something about strapping 3 drill batteries to my frame puts me off. I aim to have a simple install with a plug and play battery.

I've found this on eBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ebike-Batter ... Sw~5RamBH9

Does this look okay for my purpose and the BBSHD? 52v seems much harder to find in the UK...

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by tommie » Mar 27 2018 3:45pm

Lovelock wrote:
Mar 27 2018 2:57pm
Something about strapping 3 drill batteries to my frame puts me off. I aim to have a simple install with a plug and play battery.

I've found this on eBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ebike-Batter ... Sw~5RamBH9

Does this look okay for my purpose and the BBSHD? 52v seems much harder to find in the UK...
In a word NO!!
Why don`t they say what cells are they using, is it because they`re of the cheap chinese variety? This is the most important thing. Make sure they`re Panasonic, Samsung, Sanyo etc, not copies.

As you`re also in the UK you`d be better asking the question in www.pedelecs.co.uk there`s a lot more local knowledge in there.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by markz » Mar 27 2018 3:51pm

Again with a no-name ebay battery builder, making packs in his parents bathroom no doubt, as they tend to live in small quarters.

Lots of people had good experiences with
Unit Pack Power - https://unitpackpower.en.alibaba.com/
OSN Power - http://www.osnpower.com/pddetaildate/pr ... 497_1.html
Headway - http://www.headway-headquarters.com/
http://www.batteryspace.com/
https://www.ebikes.ca
https://www.lunacycle.com/
https://www.electricmotorsport.com/
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/

Lovelock   10 W

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Lovelock » Mar 27 2018 4:00pm

markz wrote:
Mar 27 2018 3:51pm
Again with a no-name ebay battery builder, making packs in his parents bathroom no doubt, as they tend to live in small quarters.

Lots of people had good experiences with
Unit Pack Power - https://unitpackpower.en.alibaba.com/
OSN Power - http://www.osnpower.com/pddetaildate/pr ... 497_1.html
Headway - http://www.headway-headquarters.com/
http://www.batteryspace.com/
https://www.ebikes.ca
https://www.lunacycle.com/
https://www.electricmotorsport.com/
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/
Thanks for the links. Luna quote 6-8 weeks delivery for batteries with no tracking which is no fun for me.

I'm waiting for a response from 'Jimmy' or someone from https://www.bga-reworking.co.uk so hopefully they come through for me.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Lovelock » Mar 27 2018 4:32pm

Okay, i've made the decision now to just go for the kit and battery from AliExpress and upgrade when I see fit.

£467 (£500 ish incl tax) - For the kit (suggested seller from a previous poster):

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... a095mvTi97

<£200 the battery from UnitPackPower as suggested by the previous other poster from AliExpress:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 2d20dZrRIk

The battery says 30a continuous which I think is what was recommended for the BBSHD.

Image

I've spent far too long researching batteries so until pay day these two will sit in my basket and unless anything changes will be ordered.

Thanks for all the help and discussion, still open to criticism on the battery choice.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Alan B » Mar 27 2018 10:37pm

Buy batteries that you can get serviced.

You cannot ship batteries, especially suspect or damaged ones, so there needs to be a service location you can get to if they need service.

Or build them yourself so you can service them yourself.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Lovelock » Mar 28 2018 5:13am

Alan B wrote:
Mar 27 2018 10:37pm
Buy batteries that you can get serviced.

You cannot ship batteries, especially suspect or damaged ones, so there needs to be a service location you can get to if they need service.

Or build them yourself so you can service them yourself.
Okay, sound advice.

I received a reply from Jimmy so will most likely be using him for the battery.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by wineboyrider » Mar 28 2018 7:20am

Alan B wrote:
Mar 27 2018 10:37pm
Buy batteries that you can get serviced.

You cannot ship batteries, especially suspect or damaged ones, so there needs to be a service location you can get to if they need service.

Or build them yourself so you can service them yourself.
Exactly why I think tool pack batteries are great for starting off with, especially smaller packs.
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by tomjasz » Mar 28 2018 11:34am

Alan B wrote:
Mar 27 2018 10:37pm

You cannot ship batteries, especially suspect or damaged ones, so there needs to be a service location you can get to if they need service.

Batteries are shipped often. Using original packaging and shipping ground is often successful. Expensive sometimes but certainly doable. The most common problem is a BMS failure. Something every kit builder ought to be up to dealing with. I had many emails in support of builders that pretty handily managed the BMS replacement. As to premature cell failure, any decent reseller, with adequate video documentation will honor the warranty. That said these days failures are extremely low when looking at the volume sold. The right reseller is a pretty solid bet these days.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Mar 28 2018 11:00pm

wineboyrider wrote:
Mar 26 2018 8:13am
Tool pack batteries are now in the 7.5 ah size like EGO and Echo?
It looks like the EGO batteries have a standard tool battery type connecting tabs, in order to have a male connection to plug into the battery I wonder if a person could hunt up something that would work hitting the used stores and finding a random tool to cut a connector out of with tabs that would fit? Looks like all the EGO tools are fairly expensive so buying their cheapest tool to cut a connector off might be expensive. If a person could scrounge up a couple connectors they could have one to connect to a 52v charger and one to draw current off while using the battery on a bike, just have to make sure you have a good solid connection for either. Ideas anyone?
Yuba Mundo w/BBSHD
Specialized Hard Rock w/9c clone, statoraid, hubsink
Trek Fuel 90 w/BBSHD
Above all run on 14s4p 52v li-ion
Ecobike folder 36v
Currie Flyer scooter 24v on 24ah of SLA

Every trip made with electric bike is one less car trip, saves money, no toxic fumes, less noise, less impact on roads.

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Alan B   100 GW

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Alan B » Mar 28 2018 11:50pm

tomjasz wrote:
Mar 28 2018 11:34am
Alan B wrote:
Mar 27 2018 10:37pm

You cannot ship batteries, especially suspect or damaged ones, so there needs to be a service location you can get to if they need service.

Batteries are shipped often. Using original packaging and shipping ground is often successful. Expensive sometimes but certainly doable. The most common problem is a BMS failure. Something every kit builder ought to be up to dealing with. I had many emails in support of builders that pretty handily managed the BMS replacement. As to premature cell failure, any decent reseller, with adequate video documentation will honor the warranty. That said these days failures are extremely low when looking at the volume sold. The right reseller is a pretty solid bet these days.
These days to ship lithium batteries legally in the US requires certified trained personnel and in many cases the cells must be tested to meet manufacturer's specs to insure that dangerous cells are not shipped. The rules change frequently. People often ship batteries illegally. Every shipment of lithium batteries must have the proper hazmat paperwork and a 24 hour phone number to be contacted in case the shipment becomes damaged. It is easier to ship gunpowder than lithium batteries. It has become very difficult to do legally, and illegal shipments can result in huge fines. If there is any sort of damage (even suspected) to the battery shipment is not allowed at all. Many problem batteries have damaged cells and cannot be shipped. If the shipper even suspects there may be damage he cannot ship it, and the liability is large. I know people who work for UPS and even they cannot ship their damaged batteries for service legally. Do not assume you can ship a battery for service, especially overseas. Air shipments are especially restricted and basically not allowed except for certain certified batteries that are known to be undamaged. I don't keep up with all the details, but it is not something that is easy to do legally anymore. Research the shipping regulations and talk to the legally certified battery shippers before you assume this will be available for battery servicing. Shippers and government agencies have had it with losing planes to lithium fires. They are dead serious about lithium shipping safety.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Alan B » Mar 29 2018 12:06am

I have some EGO batteries and tools. The packs appear well made. Buying a charger to get connectors is one approach, though I don't think the connectors in the charger are rated for too high a current. The tool/charger has blades that enter into slots, the battery has dual contacts in both sides of the slot. It appears to be a simple thing that could easily be 3D printed, and heavier blades could probably be used. I haven't looked too closely at the tools to see if they have heavier blades than the charger... I just looked at the charger and the leaf blower, which draws a lot of power. They seem to have the same blades. Fairly large but quite thin. Four blades. Looks easy to 3D print something that would work. There's also an air path so you can blow air through the pack for cooling. The charger does that. I don't think the tools do, but I have not looked for that.

Today I ran the weed whacker with a 2AH pack for awhile. I don't know the current draw but the battery was pretty warm when I finished. If I was going to use those on an ebike I would probably set it up to use them in parallel to spread the current draw across the packs and sets of contacts. Of course it depends on the power level you need.

I don't have any packs above 2.5AH. They get quite expensive and heavy. For tools I'd rather have several smaller packs to keep tool weight down. Energy per weight or volume they probably don't really compare to a good ebike pack. But they would be good from a service and availability perspective. The tools are good too, so you could get double duty from them. The packs are generally cheapest when purchased with tools. They might make a good range extender, or short range packs. My ebike packs at this voltage are generally around 20AH which would be 3 of the 7.5AH models to be comparable.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Alan B » Mar 29 2018 2:00pm


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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by tomjasz » Mar 29 2018 2:14pm

Alan B wrote:
Mar 28 2018 11:50pm


You cannot ship batteries, especially suspect or damaged ones, so there needs to be a service location you can get to if they need service.

Shippers and government agencies have had it with losing planes to lithium fires. They are dead serious about lithium shipping safety.
Batteries are shipped often. Using original packaging and shipping ground is often successful. Not something I do, but there are several vendors that do suggest and accept batteries shipped for repair. some even suggest taking the package to UPS, masking the packaging so it looks unopened and refusing service. This and several other ploys are used by dealers other than those I work with. Anyone shipping by air is just plain ignorant.
[/quote]
Last edited by tomjasz on Mar 29 2018 2:18pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Alan B » Mar 29 2018 2:18pm

Check with the shipper. They cannot ship batteries that have any issues. They generally will not accept them at all, even if there are no issues.

People do ship their own batteries, but it is usually not legal.

As I think about this further, we are not actually disagreeing. He's saying people do ship their own batteries, I'm saying when they do it is not legal.

It is up to the individual to decide how to handle this. It's pretty serious stuff with major fines, but how often will you be caught?

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by zro-1 » Mar 29 2018 4:40pm

I wonder if the tab spacing on an ego pack is the same as it is on the hailong "shark" packs. That also has 4 double-sided slots. If so, getting a replacement frame mount for one of those would probably be cheaper and already designed to fit on a bike frame.
~01~

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Alan B » Mar 29 2018 5:10pm

I started looking further into the EGO packs while I was waiting for something else today. There are some good videos out there about these.

I have both Shark and EGO batteries, the connectors are quite different at the detail level.

I'm thinking about making a 3D printed mount for EGO packs. I've been doing a bunch of 3D design lately. Could do that.

The EGO packs do appear to be the best of the tool packs for ebikes. Good for 15-20 amps at least. Two in parallel should be plenty for a BBSHD.

The blades they use for connections are a bit thin but fairly large. It looks like a slightly thicker blade would work.

I'm not sure what the two inner pins are, the power seems to be on the two outer pins, and that has worked to power ebikes. So you may only need those 2 pins. The BMS does shut power off to the ebike but the shutoff is at a fairly low voltage per cell so it would be good to use a controller LVC to protect the battery and stay out of the lowest voltage end of the scale.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by tomjasz » Mar 29 2018 5:14pm

Alan B wrote:
Mar 29 2018 2:18pm
Check with the shipper. They cannot ship batteries that have any issues. They generally will not accept them at all, even if there are no issues.

People do ship their own batteries, but it is usually not legal.

As I think about this further, we are not actually disagreeing. He's saying people do ship their own batteries, I'm saying when they do it is not legal.

It is up to the individual to decide how to handle this. It's pretty serious stuff with major fines, but how often will you be caught?
Yes we agree, I just question the illegality of ground shipping. When I have stated, I was shipping a battery ground, and using the original, properly labeled box, I and many others get no problem from small town UPS stations. I shut up and smile...
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by tomjasz » Mar 29 2018 5:16pm

Alan B wrote:
Mar 29 2018 5:10pm
. I've been doing a bunch of 3D design lately. Could do that.

The EGO packs do appear to be the best of the tool packs for ebikes. Good for 15-20 amps at least. Two in parallel should be plenty for a BBSHD.
I did a rather lengthy search for stl or other files for eGo batts...no success. A design that works would be an incredible gift to the community. Bikes and tools on one system! WIN!
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Mar 29 2018 6:06pm

Alan B wrote:
Mar 29 2018 5:10pm
I started looking further into the EGO packs while I was waiting for something else today. There are some good videos out there about these.

I have both Shark and EGO batteries, the connectors are quite different at the detail level.

I'm thinking about making a 3D printed mount for EGO packs. I've been doing a bunch of 3D design lately. Could do that.

The EGO packs do appear to be the best of the tool packs for ebikes. Good for 15-20 amps at least. Two in parallel should be plenty for a BBSHD.

The blades they use for connections are a bit thin but fairly large. It looks like a slightly thicker blade would work.

I'm not sure what the two inner pins are, the power seems to be on the two outer pins, and that has worked to power ebikes. So you may only need those 2 pins. The BMS does shut power off to the ebike but the shutoff is at a fairly low voltage per cell so it would be good to use a controller LVC to protect the battery and stay out of the lowest voltage end of the scale.
Is the pin arrangement the same as the Kobalt packs, two outers are + - and one of the center pins interfaces with the charger, the other of the two center pins does nothing? Now I want to go look at one at Home Depot, being able to purchase batteries at any HD, return them if needed and also being able to purchase readily available packs in Hawaii at Home Depot without having to pay extra shipping and wait weeks would be great.
Yuba Mundo w/BBSHD
Specialized Hard Rock w/9c clone, statoraid, hubsink
Trek Fuel 90 w/BBSHD
Above all run on 14s4p 52v li-ion
Ecobike folder 36v
Currie Flyer scooter 24v on 24ah of SLA

Every trip made with electric bike is one less car trip, saves money, no toxic fumes, less noise, less impact on roads.

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Alan B   100 GW

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Alan B » Mar 29 2018 6:36pm

Pins are

Negative, T, D, Positive

Charger has all 4 blades

Leaf blower has three, includes D.

Perhaps that's a serial Data pin? Total WAG there. No data on that yet.

T seems like Temperature perhaps. Again WAG. (Wild A..ed Guess).

blades are 0.79mm thick

17x17mm of the blades is showing out from the connector block, which they are cast into on 2 sides, so they are very well supported.

Contacts are dual bifurcated, so four contacts per blade

I'm looking at making a simple 3D shape that slides into the slot and has a block to support two blades as a starting design. There are actually quite a few dimensions even on a simple connector but none are very critical.
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EGObattery1.PNG

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 29 2018 6:54pm

I don't know all the features of the four pins, but...

My low-powered tools (leaf blower, weed wacker, etc) can work on any EGO battery, whether it is big or small. The mower will only work with a 5.0Ah pack or larger (I ordered the mower with the largest option, the 7.5-Ah).

There are TWO sizes of mower, I have the larger one (post below reports his mower will work with smaller 2.5-Ah battery)

edit: to answer the question below, the smaller EGO packs will slide into the larger tools so the blades/pins and the slots are the same for all tools.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Alan B » Mar 29 2018 7:31pm

Could you look and see if the slots on either side of the battery connector change on the larger packs? I suspect a feature like that prevents the smaller packs from fitting on the mower.

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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by Alan B » Mar 29 2018 7:34pm

This is not complete by any means, but here's a start for an EGO compatible connector plate. It slides into the slot on the battery. Connector plates are screwed to each side of the block in the center to pick up the battery power output pins. The slots are needed to get the connector plates into the center of the battery contacts deep in the batteries' protective slots.

Should we split this into a separate thread?
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Re: Smallest battery suggestions for 6 mile ride and Bafang BBSHD

Post by mark5 » Mar 29 2018 8:02pm

Alan B wrote:
Mar 29 2018 7:31pm
Could you look and see if the slots on either side of the battery connector change on the larger packs? I suspect a feature like that prevents the smaller packs from fitting on the mower.
I just put a 2.5Ah pack into my mower (which came with their 5Ah pack). It fitted ok. Started it & it ran. Didn't try mowing. The mower side has 3 connector blades, "D" being the third one.
Raisedeyebrows wrote:
Mar 29 2018 6:06pm
[...] Now I want to go look at one at Home Depot, being able to purchase batteries at any HD, return them if needed and also being able to purchase readily available packs in Hawaii at Home Depot without having to pay extra shipping and wait weeks would be great.
I haven't seen any mower-sized(>= 5Ah) Ego packs at HD on Oahu at least. They only come with the mower or backpack blower. You'd have to special order them. Free shipping by boat could take 8 weeks.

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