It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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lester12483   10 kW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by lester12483 » May 13 2018 12:01pm

If you want a cheap ebike you will NOT get quality. No different than any vehicle.
MT6 Hybrid- Electric Bicycle 48V
48V 23AH AllCell Lithium Manganese Battery Pack
http://www.chicagoelectricbicycles.com

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by boytitan » May 14 2018 10:39am

Chalo wrote:
May 11 2018 3:10am
boytitan wrote:
May 10 2018 9:22am
Chalo wrote:
May 01 2018 7:17pm
[...]at the bike shop we have neither the supplies nor the tools for [installing plugs]. And to be fair, there's no reason we should.
My apologies did not know that.
Hey, no worries.

I would still have had misgivings about installing Powerpoles and JST connectors in a location where both water and filth abound.
I had powerpoles survive a buffalo winter sorta. Before last winter great. As we all know this last winter on the east coast was extremely and abnormally brutal and the salt destroyed 2 of my exposed connectors. I mean the connector still worked but it was not clean and some of the metal in one of em was eroded.

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sonnetg   1 kW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by sonnetg » May 15 2018 7:13am

ebikes seem to be a lot cheaper than it was back when I got started few years back. A decent bicycle alone can cost over 1K, and an ebike at least 2K. If you are a DIYer, you can build quality bikes for much less.

That being said, i found few ebikes on amazon for around $500-$700 or so, but be prepared to spend a fair amount down the road for upgrades.

https://www.amazon.com/Cyclamatic-Elect ... ctric+bike

https://www.amazon.com/ANCHEER-Electric ... cheer+2018


If you are on the lookout, you can find great deals on quality ebikes:

http://lonestar-ebikes.shoplightspeed.c ... gJ2pPD_BwE

http://lonestar-ebikes.shoplightspeed.c ... googlebase

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wturber   100 kW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by wturber » May 15 2018 10:17pm

dustNbone wrote:
May 12 2018 5:24pm
wturber wrote:
May 11 2018 4:30pm
I dunno. It seems that the "super" HobbyKing battery deals are either out of stock, or they pull a "bait and switch" by listing a sale price on their search list that magically disappears when you click on the battery. Maybe some day I'll actually find one of those really good deals where the battery is actually in stock.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-h ... -pack.html

That's about the best one I see at the moment. Was in stock at the time of this posting at least :) $70 for 6S 10Ah, not super but a workable 10Ah pack for $140. Or 20Ah for $280.
Yes. A solid deal, but some "gone" deals were significantly better (assuming they were actually real deals at the time).

And I'm totally fine with it being my bad luck if I miss a deal. Ya snooze ya lose and all that. But then once the deal is gone, take it down from the website for goodness sake. And more importantly, don't leave a deal up and then show a significantly higher price when a potential customer clicks on the "deal." Case in point is the 12000 mah 6s on this page at $79.05 but shows a price of $111.02 if you click on it. I'd normally give a business a pass on something like that, but it seems to be a by-product of not de-listing their sale prices ... and its been that way for at least a week now and I've seen it before. So I'm inclined to think it is intentional.

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/batteries/m ... r=capacity
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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LockH   100 GW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by LockH » May 16 2018 12:12pm

Seems nobuddy has brought up "The F Word"? Currently, local bike shops (Toronto) will sell one "state-of-the-art" "modern" electric bike where with a thing "good credit rating", monthly loan payments are about HALF of a monthly pass to take pubic transit. And ebikers are laughing all the way to the bank. :) `Course, guess there are still folks building their own houses and cars... I guess.
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
(Ebikers Anonymous - Where we're all miserable failures, but the parties are hilarious...)

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by Chalo » May 17 2018 12:11am

Only a chump uses debt to pay for something he can buy outright instead. It might in some few cases work out in your favor, but that's just gambling.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

rumme   100 kW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by rumme » May 17 2018 7:41am

Chalo wrote:
May 17 2018 12:11am
Only a chump uses debt to pay for something he can buy outright instead. It might in some few cases work out in your favor, but that's just gambling.
Have you ever thought about becoming a motivational speaker ? You could film your audience as you speak, and probably get half of them to commit suicide before your finished the seminar.

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wineboyrider   100 MW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by wineboyrider » May 17 2018 8:22am

The best ebike I ever had was a good specialized mtb frame and a good dd hub motor. The rest were ezip trash.
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by Cephalotus » May 18 2018 5:53am

For me the cheap stuff doesn't work.

I do not need fetish componts (let's say Shimao XTR stuff) , but mostly solid middle class does the job nicecly, sometimes I prefer even higher end componentes, i.e. tires (imho you get the most bang for the buck on a biycle from the tires, so I buy only the best)

Solid middle starts at around 2000 Euro for a Pedelec over here, more if you want full suspension.

My solution: I buy used bikes. Often they are on sale for 1/4th or 1/5th the original price some years ago.

If you have ever riden a quality bike you don't want to go back to cheap shit. Maybe a motor can camouflage crappy bike technology, but it is still crap, even if you don't feel all the extra resistance in your own legs.

markz   100 GW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by markz » May 22 2018 2:57pm

miro13car wrote:
May 06 2018 7:51pm

Crap BSO will start falling apart
Well I cut up a brand new CCM BSO (Bike Shaped Object) which had (yes past tense :twisted:) no scratches, stickers were shiny and unscratched. So while taking off the crank I noticed it wobbled, taking off the brakes and the bolts were rusted, chain wasnt even rusted so the bso was a resident of a shed. Upside on a BSO like that is that no crackhead would want to make an effort to steal it if you were to lock it up correctly. Meaning a half decent U-lock and cable lock wheels.

Now think about this - Basic transportation. Crackhead or thief realizes the buses are done. They are stranded at the train station and the anger rises in them that now they have to walk for a long time to get back. What are they to do? Easy pickings is what they do.

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by georgefromvt » May 22 2018 9:29pm

Ebikes cheaper?? You haven't been to a gas station or super market lately!!! Everything is going up. My little tax break doesn't cover the higher cost of gas, groceries and living!! Check out the price of razors next time you're shopping.

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wineboyrider   100 MW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by wineboyrider » May 24 2018 7:08pm

georgefromvt wrote:
May 22 2018 9:29pm
Ebikes cheaper?? You haven't been to a gas station or super market lately!!! Everything is going up. My little tax break doesn't cover the higher cost of gas, groceries and living!! Check out the price of razors next time you're shopping.
Yes sir!
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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parajared   10 kW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by parajared » Jun 08 2018 12:29pm

I dunno. It seems that the "super" HobbyKing battery deals are either out of stock, or they pull a "bait and switch" by listing a sale price on their search list that magically disappears when you click on the battery. Maybe some day I'll actually find one of those really good deals where the battery is actually in stock.
I tend to scoop up a few multistars whenever they have one of their "super" sales. It's worked for me 90% of the time and I get about 500 cycles out of em. The sale price is okay, the batteries are decent enough.

I had an incident in which I bought the battery it was in stock when I checked-out and a couple weeks later Hobbyking sent me an e-mail saying that the battery was actually out of stock and that they refunded me in-store credit instead of giving me my money back. Hobbyking isn't exactly known for their customer service and I feel like I'm rolling the dice at the gambling table whenever I order from them.

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by wturber » Jun 08 2018 12:42pm

parajared wrote:
Jun 08 2018 12:29pm
I had an incident in which I bought the battery it was in stock when I checked-out and a couple weeks later Hobbyking sent me an e-mail saying that the battery was actually out of stock and that they refunded me in-store credit instead of giving me my money back. Hobbyking isn't exactly known for their customer service and I feel like I'm rolling the dice at the gambling table whenever I order from them.
I would not have accepted store credit.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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LockH   100 GW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by LockH » Jun 08 2018 1:12pm

^^ Hehe... "I would not have accepted store credit."... In the drive to the bottom (lowest cost per mile), electric assist not the clear winner?
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
(Ebikers Anonymous - Where we're all miserable failures, but the parties are hilarious...)

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wturber   100 kW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by wturber » Jun 08 2018 2:31pm

LockH wrote:
Jun 08 2018 1:12pm
^^ Hehe... "I would not have accepted store credit."... In the drive to the bottom (lowest cost per mile), electric assist not the clear winner?
I'm not sure of your point. If I order something and the store doesn't have it in stock, fine. Just give me my money back. Simple. I'm pretty sure my credit card company would agree.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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LockH   100 GW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by LockH » Jun 08 2018 2:36pm

"electric assist not the clear winner?" Sorry... Watt part not familiar??
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
(Ebikers Anonymous - Where we're all miserable failures, but the parties are hilarious...)

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wturber   100 kW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by wturber » Jun 08 2018 2:39pm

LockH wrote:
Jun 08 2018 2:36pm
"electric assist not the clear winner?" Sorry... Watt part not familiar??
All of it. I don't get the relevance.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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parajared   10 kW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by parajared » Jun 08 2018 2:46pm

^^ Hehe... "I would not have accepted store credit."... In the drive to the bottom (lowest cost per mile), electric assist not the clear winner?
I would not have accepted store credit.
Yeah,
exactly the point. It was a pretty crappy business practice on Hobbyking's part.

It wouldn't have been unreasonable for them to offer the store credit option to me (maybe add an additional 10% for my troubles) but it should have been my choice; either that or give me my money back for the goods that they didn't provide.

@LockH
Alrighty then, math time it is good sir. Multistars run about $70 on sale and last maybe 500 cycles if you are lucky. I run 18s a lot so that's three $70 batteries being discharged at once or $210 worth of batteries getting me about 30 miles per cycle or so. 210 bucks divided by 500 cycles is 42 cents per cycle and it costs me about 8 cents in electricity to re-charge them so that's 50 cents for 30 miles.

A 2-stroke gasoline powered bicycle gets about 110 miles per gallon. Gasoline is $3.00 per gallon around here. 3 bucks divided by 110 miles is 2.7 cents per mile so that's 81 cents for 30 miles.
Last edited by parajared on Jun 08 2018 3:13pm, edited 3 times in total.

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wturber   100 kW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by wturber » Jun 08 2018 2:58pm

parajared wrote:
Jun 08 2018 2:46pm
I would not have accepted store credit.
Yeah,
exactly the point. It was a pretty crappy business practice on Hobbyking's part.

It wouldn't have been unreasonable for them to offer the store credit option to me (maybe add an additional 10% for my troubles) but it should have been my choice; either that or give me my money back for the goods that they didn't provide.
If you paid with a credit card, it really was your choice. Whether they liked it or not.
Technically that would be the case regardless of how you paid. But using the credit card gives you enforcement leverage.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by Chalo » Jun 08 2018 8:07pm

parajared wrote:
Jun 08 2018 2:46pm
A 2-stroke gasoline powered bicycle gets about 110 miles per gallon. Gasoline is $3.00 per gallon around here. 3 bucks divided by 110 miles is 2.7 cents per mile so that's 81 cents for 30 miles.
In my casual observation, most of those stinky gasbike engines don't last longer than an e-bike battery, so there's that consumable item too.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by LockH » Jun 08 2018 8:36pm

In "accounting/economics" terms... prices are a function of volume. Buy more and prices get "cheaper". :wink:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
(Ebikers Anonymous - Where we're all miserable failures, but the parties are hilarious...)

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by wturber » Jun 08 2018 8:44pm

I recently calculated my e-bike MPGe at about 1500 MPGe. But a fair accounting requires that I also consider my pedal assist and the calories expended. I decided to calculate it in MPGtm (Miles per Gallon Trail Mix equivalent)and it is about 500 MPGtm. With gas at about $3.00/gallon and WalMart Omega-3 Trail mix at about $7 a bag, my fuel cost per mile is about 1.6 cents. So my daily commute fuel costs are about $0.61 on the e-bike and about $3.00 plus with my car. I could, of course, lower my e-bike fuel costs by eating the cheaper Mountain Trail mix, but the most economical choice would be to stop pedaling. :^)
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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parajared   10 kW

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by parajared » Jun 09 2018 9:28am

MPGtm lol, that's great wtuber!
And here I thought the lion's share of the price was in the batteries wearing out when all along it was those darned kilocalories driving up the price.

I think in my work place I could calculate in the "intermittent break-room donut variable", "Jared's Fundamental Therum of employee picnic propogation", "birthday party cake-to-employee ratio incongruity thesis" into your MPGtm formula and become a MPGtm hypermiler!

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Re: It's now Spring 2018.. Why haven't e-bikes gotten cheaper?

Post by Keiffith » Jun 09 2018 1:34pm

There are essentially 3 grades of components that can be used. Most don't fit perfectly in one of these, but it makes the concept much easier to describe.

Cheapest- self explanatory

Service grade- nothing fancy or ground breaking, but built well enough that it can last a reasonable amount of time before it needs service/replacement.

High End- uses engineering and material science to make the component either super light, or super durable.

There's marketing wank that can make you believe something is from a higher echelon when it is actually lower in quality/engineering. In general none scientific data points are pure marketing and are in no way an actual bearing that the product is better.

For me, I like service grade. Gets the job done with no fuss and is usually reasonable in price.

Plus being able to troubleshoot and repair your own bike is Very important if you want a lower cost. Hence why building an ebike from a bin of parts rather than a ready built is significantly better stats wise dollar for dollar. You don't get to call or message anyone when your shit doesn't work, either tho

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