front or rear wheel drive?

What are the pros and cons about this topic?
I had a front wheel hub motor and it was OK but I'm thinking about getting a rear wheel one.
I guess the main disadvantage to front drive is the impediment to having a front disk brake. (I like to go fast)
What do you think?

I imagine a fronthub could have traction issues on wet or loose surfaces, especially the more powerful options like 1000w

I have two 1000w front hub motor bikes and they work extremely well IMNSHO. My primary reason for using front hub motors was to be able to have my pedal drive train separate from the motor so that I can provide the assist/cadence I want at any time while still taking advantage of the constant momentum that a motor assist provides.While I prefer PAS for my mid drive mtb (torque assist) and use the throttle only for starting off mainly my hub bikes are throttle only which keeps the human drive feeling most natural. Using a CA3 I have the cruise control set for one second so I don't have to constantly do adjustments to the motor output manually when applicable But there are plenty of instances where I use the throttle to fine tune my pedal output with the motor.

Also considering weight bias it made sense to me as it more than less distributes the weight of the bike evenly when used with a frame mounted battery and my weight bias mainly on the rear wheel. In regards to the commonly held belief to the traction on various surface conditions I have found that it actually is better for overall traction due to the front wheel drive aspect. Sure if you give it a blast of watts and are not handling the bike properly it has potential for loss of traction but so does a rear hub motor.

Front hub motors do need some attention during setup especially in regards to a solid torque arm system. I have found that even with a carbon fiber fork, which I have on my V1 with a 9c, there have been no issues. The Grin All Axle hub motor I have on V2 has a great built in torque arm and the ability to be used in a thru axle fork which eliminates the worries of fork failure altogether.

If you plan to ride fast, forget about front hubs. They are good only for low power, close to legal speed ebikes.

Powerful and fast ebikes are best built with a big hub on the rear, for handling and reliability.

Rear hub would be much better overall.

I agree. I've never rode a FWD bike of any kind but the thought of my front tire breaking loose on me doesn't sound nice at all.

It is interesting that the strongest voices against a front hub "never rode a FWD bike" but "imagine" there could be "issues".

I have built and ridden a couple front drive bikes and previously owned a rear drive and have tested several of each. Both work well. As long as you keep the weight and power of the drive motor reasonable then front drive works fine. I'd say a peak power of 1000 battery watts in a motor less then 4kg will be fine. Within those limits you really won't notice it at all. A Q100 or Q128 or Bafang SWXK size motor is perfect.

The big advantage of front motors is that almost all bikes have front spacing of 100mm so there is no need to worry about respacing your frame or changing your gearing or if the wheel will need too much dish. This makes installation a lot easier. Also, if you mount the battery
in the triangle or on the back it tends to balance the weight of the motor if you need to carry the bike.

In general if I was building a bike intended for bike speeds on roads and did not need to hide the motor at all I'd build a front drive just for the simplicity.

IN general, front hub works best only for bikes that cannot for some reason use a rear. for example, a coaster brake cruiser, or adult delta trike, or you have an IGH rear hub.

Otherwise, nearly always better to go rear, for traction mostly.

-dg said:

It is interesting that the strongest voices against a front hub "never rode a FWD bike" but "imagine" there could be "issues".


In general if I was building a bike intended for bike speeds on roads and did not need to hide the motor at all I'd build a front drive just for the simplicity.

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From my experience building and riding some bikes the front drive is my last choice, where I live with a mix of pavement and gravel roads it spins out too much on the gravel, I have abandoned my front drives for this reason, unsafe,

Rear drives are OK but I have abandoned them also for mid drives which are a dream to ride in my area, steep hills, gravel all no problem as long as you use your gears and aren't a speed freak, I ride roads with other people so being a speed moron is counter productive.

I find ebikes are use specific to the environment where it will be used,

Jaguar said:

What are the pros and cons about this topic?

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Some existing threads (theres also others that dont come up in these two lists)
:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=front+++rear+wheel+drive+&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=front+++rear+motor&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

Rear hub motor. Front wheel motor is ok for two wheel drive.

It's worth noting that a hub motor wheel is always weaker and more maintenance prone than an equally well built conventional wheel. So there's a certain amount of sense in putting the motor in front where the wheel's job is easier.

Jaguar said:

What are the pros and cons about this topic?
I had a front wheel hub motor and it was OK but I'm thinking about getting a rear wheel one.
I guess the main disadvantage to front drive is the impediment to having a front disk brake. (I like to go fast)
What do you think?

Click to expand...

imo a front hub motor is suitable for sub 1000w powered ebikes if used on the road only.
Many front hubs are disc brake compatible problem is the handling sucks . I hit a bump on trail with cruise on with a front motor that redirected the front wheel toward the bush it pulled me off the trail into a stump. They can pull you off course on paved corners as well..

"Many front hubs are disc brake compatible problem is the handling sucks . I hit a bump on trail with cruise on with a front motor that redirected the front wheel toward the bush it pulled me off the trail into a stump. They can pull you off course on paved corners as well.."

In my 4 thousand miles of riding my hub bikes in all kinds of terrain and surfaces I have never experienced anything like that, but as they always say YMMV

Well, cruise control and trail don’t belong well together. Still, trails like a light weight front end, in the mountain especially.

I have been riding a front hub motor for over 12,000 miles now. If you ride like I do, mostly in the city, on mostly dry streets, and keep your setup at 1000w or less, front hub is fine. I ride maybe 100 yards of dirt path per week at my community garden. That includes a little 10 foot long hill where I often loose traction in the dirt. I get up the hill because it is short. A longer dirt hill would be a problem.

If you want to turn your bike into a little electric motorcycle, go with a rear drive.

As for breaking, (and I run V-breaks,) one of my three bad e-bike accidents was because I locked up my front wheel when a cager cut me off and stopped right in front of me. I hit my breaks so hard that the front wheel locked up. However, because a wheel is round the inertia of the weight of me and the bike caused the bike to rotate over the outer circumference of the front wheel as the back wheel sailed over my body.

I ended up flying hands first into the street lying in the wet gutter just inches from the front tire of the car. My hands and wrists swoll-up to 3 or 4 times there normal size. It was painful.

The moral of that story is not to avoid a front wheel motor because you want a disk break. Well adjusted V-breaks will stop you just fine. For safety, I now adjust my front break so it can not lock up the wheel.

The real reasons to go with a rear hub motor are because you want a powerful bike or traction on slippery surfaces or both.

Decided to add to this, But I will just say rear wheel drive all the way for high power systems.

My first ever ebike was a 1000w front wheel kit and that thing had like no traction. Later I installed a tiny little 250w geared hub motor on the rear and the bike had WAAAY better traction.

Maybe if you are running low power sure, front hub will do it. But for me now that I have plans to assemble a 3000w system, I am rear drive all the way.

Not to mention rear forks are designed to hold up to torque better than any front suspension on a bike. On my gary fisher mountain bike I can run 1000w all day on the rear without torque arms. If I try that on the front forks, I will end up snapping the fork and sending me flying.

CUDAcores89 said:

Decided to add to this, But I will just say rear wheel drive all the way for high power systems.

My first ever ebike was a 1000w front wheel kit and that thing had like no traction. Later I installed a tiny little 250w geared hub motor on the rear and the bike had WAAAY better traction.

Maybe if you are running low power sure, front hub will do it. But for me now that I have plans to assemble a 3000w system, I am rear drive all the way.

Not to mention rear forks are designed to hold up to torque better than any front suspension on a bike. On my gary fisher mountain bike I can run 1000w all day on the rear without torque arms. If I try that on the front forks, I will end up snapping the fork and sending me flying.

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Dirt, gravel, and crap tires? Suspension or alloy forks are not wise. I have yet to skid but my riding matches ebeach

e-beach said:

I ended up flying hands first into the street lying in the wet gutter just inches from the front tire of the car. My hands and wrists swoll-up to 3 or 4 times there normal size. It was painful.

The moral of that story is not to avoid a front wheel motor because you want a disk break. Well adjusted V-breaks will stop you just fine. For safety, I now adjust my front break so it can not lock up the wheel.

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This is why I spend some time with every bike I ride, from human powered to 150HP, to practice sudden stops. On something as light as a bicycle, you can avoid going ass over tea kettle by shifting your weight rearward before you clamp the brakes. Somewhere there is a point where your front wheel will lock without sending you flying off, the face plant comes when you don't stop your weight shifting forward as you brake.

Generally the fastest stop you can make on a light bike is going to involve having the rear wheel just coming off the ground, with the front brake doing 100% of the work, or damn close to it. IMHO this is one of the most important skills to master on any bike, especially if you like going fast. Seems like a much safer way to go than intentionally weakening your braking system.

For what it's worth, my first hub motor bike had a slow wind front motor running 36V/35A with a top cruising speed between 23 and 24mph. It only ever exhibited wheelslip when climbing very steep slopes in wet conditions with brick pavement, and only when I was pedaling hard to help out. Each pedal stroke would unweight the front wheel a little and it would spin. So I don't pay too much heed to folks who think it's unmanageable to have the drive wheel in front.

I do know that with my very heavy 50+ pounds battery pack on the rear rack, and about 500 pounds gross weight including me, a rear version of that hub motor wheel wouldn't have lasted a week.

AWD said:

"Many front hubs are disc brake compatible problem is the handling sucks . I hit a bump on trail with cruise on with a front motor that redirected the front wheel toward the bush it pulled me off the trail into a stump. They can pull you off course on paved corners as well.."

In my 4 thousand miles of riding my hub bikes in all kinds of terrain and surfaces I have never experienced anything like that, but as they always say YMMV

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In my case was sitting upright with a pop in one hand steering with other hand when the front wheel hit a bump it reset pointed toward the brush and off i went under throttle with cruise engaged.

For fun *was* taking the corners at full speed under throttle until this below incident when the front wheel pulled me a few feet off course. Its hard to see but if you watch the shadow when I hit the corner the bike turns in at first then pulls left , I fight the front wheel pull with all I can in the split second and counter steer in the very last sec to stop crossing the lane

[youtube]pDapl_2uSSs[/youtube]

Now I blip the throttle off right before the corner and re engage it in the corner itself for a power exit.

You might notice I never said front motor sucks. Not so. Sounds a bit like cruise sucks in some situations though.

Just that for most situations a rear drive has some advantages. I'm not biased, I rode about 6000 miles with front drive, rode off road with front drive, and even raced at 40-50 mph with front drive. That last was sucking btw, power sliding corners with front drive is extremely difficult. But front drive on paved worked great up to 40 mph.

FWIW, a mid drive is rear drive. Chalo has one thing dead right, for the strongest wheels, neither one would have a hub motor. But many of us don't need that strong a wheel. Personally, I just went to trailers for lugging the extreme loads.

But lets take one example, a delta trike that carries big loads. You need good rear wheels, and on that type trike, you can't do hub motors anyway because of the type of axle. So in this case, a front wheel has a lot less weight, and you can afford to have a weaker hub motor up front.

But a better trike would still have a mid drive. 8)

These were taken on about a 20% grade, note no loss of traction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ej4KeqGTc&t=16s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMpDDg4TPaU

This is 15"es of snow, no loss of traction but on the flat. The only thing that stopped me that day was the pedal drive getting clogged with snow a few times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqANzfpmcJ4

Speed loop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b4YHKPsKJs

48v/25a/9c front hub motor, throttle only no PAS

The reasons I choose the front wheel motor is ease of installation lack of maintenance good weight distribution last but not least its effectively two wheel drive

Easy road to keep your traction on in that vid. baby butt smooth. And of course, that's a fine looking off road tire, so its not going to spin that easy on 1000w once you are moving.

I assume you were pedaling, which of course means you have all wheel drive. Nothing sucks about that. You had tons of rear traction then of course, helping your front motor avoid spinout.

On the other hand, come ride the rock staircases in my area. You might come to prefer a lighter front wheel you can pop up the 16" steps, and have all your traction on the rear for climbing up that step. Its a modo curb hop, over and over. I never was able to ride that route with front hub.

Obviously the answer is It Depends. I liked front wheel off road on nice clay or sandy surfaces. Cornering with all wheel drive can be excellent!

This is where I learned to power slide a front hub bike. This was crucial for me when I needed to power slide that front wheel on a paved racetrack. But honestly, it was always VERY difficult to keep that front wheel power sliding on paved. Very effective at 15 mph in dirt, but a bitch at 35 mph on paved. The point at which I found the front hub really hard to handle was 4000w or so. It was just damn fun at sub 40 mph max speed, and 3000w. I was not losing the traction on the front hub in corners till I went to 110v.

At the time, I was trying racing with front hub, on the idea that my battery had to be so big for the race length, that it unbalanced the bike too much. So having 15 pounds up front was helping, to a point.

But nevertheless,, I have not owned a front hub dirt ride in 6 years. Once I got better rear hubs with big power, I needed that power on the back. And even the lower power dirt bike is still easier to ride than the front one, because I can curb hop it so much better.