A123 Prismatic Replacement? Best LiFeP04 pack available today?

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LI-ghtcycle   1.21 GW

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A123 Prismatic Replacement? Best LiFeP04 pack available today?

Post by LI-ghtcycle » May 05 2018 5:09am

Hello all!

So I am back to my first love, LiFeP04!

18650's are all fine and dandy, but I realized after promising my trusty ole' a123 16s 1p (52v 20ah) pack to a friend, that it was STILL ALIVE AND STRONG going on 10 - 15 yrs old!!! :shock: :shock:

I had already promised the pack, so not going to go back on that promise, but I do Uber Eats and Postmates deliveries on the Ebike now, and I really regret that after testing the pack for a week to make sure it was still worth something, and lo and behold, it is the BEST DAMN battery pack I have used yet!!!

I go up and down long steep hills for 50 miles on an average delivery day in Oregon City, and West Linn (7 - 14% grade hills are common here) and this pack has never even dropped below 52V nominal while at rest, and never sagged under power more than down to 49V with a HEAVY Recumbent Cargo Bike (about 80lbs+ loaded with food for several deliveries)!!!

I have TONS of space on my cargo 'bent, so weight and size are really non-issues, I would love something along the lines of a 16s 2p (52V 40 AH) a123 Prismatic pack, but I don't believe they are really available anymore, but I have heard good things from my friends over in Cebu City, Philippines about some high quality packs that are "new old stock" or some such, so they are a little cosmetically warn, but otherwise new, and though they are a123 clones, they perform very well!

I want a pack that can handle a 40a constant, 60a burst load, as I will be shooting for 20 MPH no pedaling up steep hills using my BBSHD with Luda controller (first I am going with hot-rod "1000w" settings, and if that doesn't perform as I hope, I have the Luda to swap in) I need most of all range, speed is secondary, as long as I can have good acceleration, and maintain 20 MPH up hill, I am satisfied! Any and all suggestions welcome!

P.S. I am also on the search for a pack that has a built in DC to DC converter so I can charge up my smart phone and run a light or two VIA USB, tired of trying to rig up my own DC to DC, they never seem to last more than a year or 2.

Thanks!
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

LI-ghtcycle   1.21 GW

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Posts: 3813
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Re: A123 Prismatic Replacement? Best LiFeP04 pack available today?

Post by LI-ghtcycle » May 05 2018 5:18am

Oh wow!! This one is expensive, but it seems to check all the boxes, even comes with a 10A charger! :D https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Steel-c ... autifyAB=0
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

LI-ghtcycle   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3813
Joined: Aug 29 2009 11:39pm
Location: Oregon City Oregon

Re: A123 Prismatic Replacement? Best LiFeP04 pack available today?

Post by LI-ghtcycle » May 07 2018 9:08am

What about these cells, look like pretty good spec, I can get them 1/2 this price in the PI:
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

LI-ghtcycle   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3813
Joined: Aug 29 2009 11:39pm
Location: Oregon City Oregon

Re: A123 Prismatic Replacement? Best LiFeP04 pack available today?

Post by LI-ghtcycle » May 07 2018 9:08am

Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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Alan B   100 GW

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Re: A123 Prismatic Replacement? Best LiFeP04 pack available today?

Post by Alan B » May 07 2018 3:10pm

Leaf or Volt modules would be cheaper, smaller and much lighter. By the time they are worn out better stuff will be available.

16 of those 60AH LiFePO4 cells would be very large and heavy. 6 used Leaf modules would be half the cost, smaller, lighter, etc. 7 might be a good choice for 14S 60AH.

dustNbone   10 kW

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Re: A123 Prismatic Replacement? Best LiFeP04 pack available today?

Post by dustNbone » May 07 2018 3:58pm

The AMP20 pouches are still availble, the price isn't too bad either.

https://www.buya123products.com/goodsdetail.php?i=8

I used a 16S pack on my BBS02 touring bike for the first couple of years, I still throw it on the rack for longer range when I'm going further than my triangle pack will take me. You're right, they are really nice batteries to own. I ran mine without a BMS for most of the time I used it, I'd throw it on the balance charger every few months just to check and it was never more than a few Wh out of balance even after over 100 cycles. Sag was virtually non existent at 25A, I really miss the consistency of performance.

If I was in your position running a cargo bike with a suitable place to mount it I wouldn't think twice about which battery I wanted to run.

Keep in mind that not all LiFePo4 cells are the same. The A123 pouches from my understanding are about the best performing ones ever made. They can also take a fast charge (2C at least IIRC) which the majority of LiFePo4 cells I've seen cannot.

Another note: I also bring the A123 pack with me if I need to take my bike on the bus/train rack, where I need to bring the battery on board with me. I really don't feel great bringing 1000Wh of Li-Ion into a place like that, but the LiFePo4 isn't an issue. Especially inside a steel ammo box.

LI-ghtcycle   1.21 GW

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Re: A123 Prismatic Replacement? Best LiFeP04 pack available today?

Post by LI-ghtcycle » May 15 2018 11:27am

Alan B wrote:
May 07 2018 3:10pm
Leaf or Volt modules would be cheaper, smaller and much lighter. By the time they are worn out better stuff will be available.

16 of those 60AH LiFePO4 cells would be very large and heavy. 6 used Leaf modules would be half the cost, smaller, lighter, etc. 7 might be a good choice for 14S 60AH.
I'm curious about these, what chem are they? Also, I am looking for a plug-n-play solution, any companies that sell these or the equivalent off the shelf?
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

LI-ghtcycle   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3813
Joined: Aug 29 2009 11:39pm
Location: Oregon City Oregon

Re: A123 Prismatic Replacement? Best LiFeP04 pack available today?

Post by LI-ghtcycle » May 15 2018 11:35am

dustNbone wrote:
May 07 2018 3:58pm
The AMP20 pouches are still availble, the price isn't too bad either.

https://www.buya123products.com/goodsdetail.php?i=8

I used a 16S pack on my BBS02 touring bike for the first couple of years, I still throw it on the rack for longer range when I'm going further than my triangle pack will take me. You're right, they are really nice batteries to own. I ran mine without a BMS for most of the time I used it, I'd throw it on the balance charger every few months just to check and it was never more than a few Wh out of balance even after over 100 cycles. Sag was virtually non existent at 25A, I really miss the consistency of performance.

If I was in your position running a cargo bike with a suitable place to mount it I wouldn't think twice about which battery I wanted to run.

Keep in mind that not all LiFePo4 cells are the same. The A123 pouches from my understanding are about the best performing ones ever made. They can also take a fast charge (2C at least IIRC) which the majority of LiFePo4 cells I've seen cannot.

Another note: I also bring the A123 pack with me if I need to take my bike on the bus/train rack, where I need to bring the battery on board with me. I really don't feel great bringing 1000Wh of Li-Ion into a place like that, but the LiFePo4 isn't an issue. Especially inside a steel ammo box.
Good find, my difficulty is that I would want a off the shelf solution, not wanting to go back to the days of DIY packs, need something where I can have these cells, or similar in a complete battery.

Thank you for the info!
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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