Throttle wiring

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Kenny'sID   100 W

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Throttle wiring

Post by Kenny'sID » May 23 2018 3:53pm

I had to add to/reposition some things on my handlebars so I could get more on them and after putting things back together I get no throttle. I tried the throttle just before I did this and all was well. when I moved the thumb throttle to put it on the other side, I tried to do it without disconnecting the wire, and they pulled loose, but that should not have been a problem, there was no power to u=it unless it retained a little juice.

I just now got through putting a new controller on it even though it made no sense at all it needed one, and the same problem. Very odd. I got a bit of a bumb, just slight, as it was trying to spin the wheel so I figured since I wanted the 1500w controller on there anyway (holds out better than the 1000W), I'd just put in on and if any wiring was messed up, I'd find it in the process, bit no such luck.

It's a simple thumb throttle, no indicator lights just throttle, and for some reason, don't recall why, of the three wires that the throttle has, a red, green, and black, I had the red and green soldered together. IOW the green and red are the same terminal now and then the black for two connections. I have a red blue and black coming from the controller. It was running fine with that configuration

First question, can I bypass the throttle and test it by just putting the wires together?

Second, if so, what wires of the red, blue and black from the controller do I connect to that 3 wires turned to two wire connection coming out of the throttle? the one mentioned?

Or better yet does someone just have an idea of what's up here? Maybe experienced something like this before?

Also, those may not b-be the best questions to ask so if you think I need to dump those and go another route, I'm definitely listening.

I honestly doubt it's the hub motor, as they have always proven pretty tough, and there isn't much to the physical throttle to go out. Then moving to the obvious of the controllers that do tend to go out, but I've tried two of those, the second new, and there was no real reason to believe the first one ever went out. Thanks for any help.

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Re: Throttle wiring

Post by amberwolf » May 23 2018 4:24pm

Some questions to clarify before I can help:
Kenny'sID wrote:
May 23 2018 3:53pm
I tried the throttle just before I did this and all was well.
So at this point, you had all three wires of the throttle wired correctly to the three wires from the controller?

Which color on the throttle went to which color on the controller?
when I moved the thumb throttle to put it on the other side, I tried to do it without disconnecting the wire, and they pulled loose,
Did they pull loose from the connectors, or were they just twisted together, or were they soldered? How exactly did they pull loose, and from what?


I just now got through putting a new controller on it even though it made no sense at all it needed one, and the same problem.
This is confusing. Does this mean that when it worked, you used a different controller than when it did not work?

Or does this mean that when it worked, you used the first controller, then when it failed to work after moving it, you then tested it with a new controller and it still does not work?

Do you already know for sure that the new controller itself works, and that you have the correct wiring from it to the throttle and any other controls (brakes, 3speed switch, etc), and that you have the correct wiring for the phase and hall wires to the motor? If not, then you should not use the new controller to troubleshoot the throttle problem becuase you can't know which of the wiring on it is wrong, and thus you are troubleshooting several problems at once, making them all much harder to solve.


I figured since I wanted the 1500w controller on there anyway (holds out better than the 1000W),
What does "holds out better" mean?

Does this mean that the 1000w controller has existing known problems that the 1500w controller does not? If so, what problems specifically does it have, and when, under what conditions?

If you simply mean that it has a higher rated power, that doesn't mean anything other than it is harder on your battery and your motor, while it supplies more current to accelerate harder or climb hills at a higher speed, or possibly maintain a faster speed depending on your system voltage, motor winding, wheel diameter, aerodynamics, and other system-dependent and terrain/weather-dependent variables.

It's a simple thumb throttle, no indicator lights just throttle, and for some reason, don't recall why, of the three wires that the throttle has, a red, green, and black, I had the red and green soldered together. IOW the green and red are the same terminal now and then the black for two connections. I have a red blue and black coming from the controller. It was running fine with that configuration
I can't imagine how it could work at all like that, if it's a hall throttle, because it requires power and ground on separate wires, and outputs a throttle signal on a separate wire. It requires all three on separate wires or it won't work.

If it is a potentiometer throttle, then it can be used as a two or a three wire throttle, but only if the controller is designed for that type. If it is not designed for a potentiometer throttle, then you would have had to build a circuit with extra resistors so that the potentiometer throttle will operate correctly on a controller designed for a hall throttle.


What it sounds like is that it was wired with all three wires correctly on the original controller before moving the throttle, then after moving it the wires were accidentally soldered together isntead of separately, and that would cause your problem.


First question, can I bypass the throttle and test it by just putting the wires together?
Not if it is a hall throttle type controller. Almost all ebike controllers are this type. Only a few are desigend for potentiometer types.

If it is a potentiometer type controller, then doing so (connecting power to signal) will suddenly give you full throttle, unless it has internal protections against that (some do, so it won't work either, because it thinks the throttle is shorted).

Second, if so, what wires of the red, blue and black from the controller do I connect to that 3 wires turned to two wire connection coming out of the throttle? the one mentioned?
It requires all three wires to be separate, if it is a hall throttle.

For wiring, what wire combination worked before? You must use exactly the same one.

If you have not used this controller with this throttle, you should first put the old controller back on and troubleshoot with that so you are not trying to fix multiple wiring problems at the same time.

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Re: Throttle wiring

Post by e-beach » May 23 2018 4:25pm

Simple throttle have 3 wires. Black is ground. Red is 5v from the controller. The third wire is the return voltage to the controller that changes as the throttle is used.

Twisting throttle wires together will not work. Your controller should have a connector that has three wires for the throttle. The colors might be different then the throttle.

If you connected your throttle to something that sends greater then 5v you may have blown the throttle.

Find the proper connector from your controller, hook it up ground to ground, 5v to red wire on the throttle.

Connect your meter black probe the black ground wire and the meter red probe to the third colored wire from the throttle. You should be getting something like .8v to 4.6v a a return from the throttle.

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Kenny'sID   100 W

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Re: Throttle wiring

Post by Kenny'sID » May 23 2018 5:34pm

So at this point, you had all three wires of the throttle wired correctly to the three wires from the controller?

Yes, correctly, as in the bike ran fine before I stared making the changes...had 20 or 30mi on it.

Which color on the throttle went to which color on the controller?

Throttle = red/green together for one single connection to the red on the controller

Other throttle wire black to black from the controller but that black from the throttle could have been connected to the blue from the controller. I's just been so long since I put it together I'm honestly not sure

Did they pull loose from the connectors, or were they just twisted together, or were they soldered? How exactly did they pull loose, and from what?

These particular wires were twisted/taped.


This is confusing. Does this mean that when it worked, you used a different controller than when it did not work?


I did well if that's the only thing I confused :).

Door number 2 (Your second understanding


If you simply mean that it has a higher rated power, that doesn't mean anything other than it is harder on your battery and your motor, while it supplies more current to accelerate harder or climb hills at a higher speed, or possibly maintain a faster speed depending on your system voltage, motor winding, wheel diameter, aerodynamics, and other system-dependent and terrain/weather-dependent variables.


OH well, someone recommend that somewhere along the line. It seemed logical to me it could handle abuse more, as in a too high hill for instance (I can't pedal at all due to handicap) Either way, it still should work for the moment, correct?

I'll get to the rest of your post and the others in a moment. Thanks for the fast responses

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Re: Throttle wiring

Post by Kenny'sID » May 23 2018 5:48pm

What it sounds like is that it was wired with all three wires correctly on the original controller before moving the throttle, then after moving it the wires were accidentally soldered together isntead of separately, and that would cause your problem.

No, it was soldered before. I questioned that as well, but I did no soldering on the second controller attempt anywhere, just used wire nuts for a temporary solution on the larger wiring I normally solder, and taped the throttle.

All I can tell you is it worked flawlessly before.


For wiring, what wire combination worked before? You must use exactly the same one.

Absolutely and nearly positive I did, that's what throws me off.


If you have not used this controller with this throttle, you should first put the old controller back on and troubleshoot with that so you are not trying to fix multiple wiring problems at the same time.

FWIW, I ordered the exact same controller, same logo, from same seller, and assume it's same everything but the wattage. I went to the trouble so it would work with this throttle.

I may have come here for the wiring tips, I'll have to see if I can find an old thread of mine for clues.

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Re: Throttle wiring

Post by Kenny'sID » May 23 2018 6:06pm

Simple throttle have 3 wires. Black is ground. Red is 5v from the controller. The third wire is the return voltage to the controller that changes as the throttle is used.

That sounds about right.I tested the red @ 4.5V and that is helpful to know just what goes where.

Twisting throttle wires together will not work. Your controller should have a connector that has three wires for the throttle. The colors might be different then the throttle.

That's the whole thing, this controller didn't go with the kit, nor did the throttle match to the controller so no connector. Don't I wish :). Seems all the wiring on these things are straightforward to me, even if they didn't come with the kit but different throttle configurations mess it all up as far as plug/solder and play goes.


If you connected your throttle to something that sends greater then 5v you may have blown the throttle.


I considered that and as far as I know, that didn't happen, no sparks and I never used anything but the proper wires and non of them are beyond that.

I may have a grip throttle that I just realized I could try, FWIW.


Find the proper connector from your controller, hook it up ground to ground, 5v to red wire on the throttle.

Connect your meter black probe the black ground wire and the meter red probe to the third colored wire from the throttle. You should be getting something like .8v to 4.6v a a return from the throttle.


I'll look that over and try it. thanks.

Oh, can I just touch wires and bypass the physical throttle for the moment, and if I can, I should expect immediate full throttle...correct?

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Re: Throttle wiring

Post by Kenny'sID » May 23 2018 6:23pm

Here is the thread I mentioned. I doubt anyone cares to read up but if you should want to see something of the connections and why they are as they are, the thread is here

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82176&p=1206882&hil ... e#p1206911

and I don't see that the posts are numbered but here is the date of the post around where the subject here relates...Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:23 pm.

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Re: Throttle wiring

Post by Kenny'sID » May 23 2018 7:49pm

Took the both you to get me thinking but it's fixed now.

For some very odd reason I did solder the green to the red wire after all and they don't belong together. I recall testing by touching the wires because, as I said, I pulled them out adjacently when I removed the throttle so I didn't see them come apart, and I normally would have marked them or just seen the colors matched so no worries. Thing is, the colors even matched. Evidently, when I was touching them together to test, I got a case of brain fart, and for some reason though those two should be together. So though I taped them together quickly so it would be permanent and I'd never forget they went together. Great job/thing to do, that is if they actually went together, lol.

Thanks to AW for bringing that up and to EB for having me look it over again.

Now the big question, do I really need to remove this 1500w controller and put back the 1000W? Is there something I can do with my riding habits to make it work out? The electric drive is used, but fairly little compared to it's gas drive. Also, I'll probably never get a 1500w kit because all I usually use this for is getting up speed so I can pop the clutch for the gas motor to take over, or when going too slow for the gas in town or the few times I need both gas and electric to get up a hill (FL.) So the 1500 will just go to waste if I don't use it, but if there is a real substantial chance of messing something up, even with the limited use, I'll change them and just never use it.

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Re: Throttle wiring

Post by amberwolf » May 23 2018 9:50pm

YOu can use the higher powered controller, but since its a 1500w unit it means it's current limit is 3/2 higher than the 1000w unit. So if the old one was a 20A controller, wiht possibly 22-25A peaks, then the new one is about a 32A controller, with possibly 33-40A peak, based on similar generics I've had myself.

That means that your battery has to be able to handle that, too. If it's not, like if it has a lower-current limit BMS, it might shutdown on peak demands, especially if the cells sag in voltage a lot under the higher peak currents, which is more likely to happen when it gets emptier. It's also harder on teh cells, if they're not rated for that much demand. How much of a problem any ofthis is depends on how much load there is for how long and how often.

Similarly, the more power the controller can put out, the more heat generated in the motor. Not a big deal if it's just peaks, but if it's constant (hills, higher speeds requiring more power, pulling loads, etc), then the motor will heat up more than it used to. Might not be a problem; depends on what motor it is (many can take three or four times their "rating" for short periods, and half again to twice their rating for long periods, without any extra cooling needed).


So...it might do nothing other than give you quicker takeoffs from a stop. Dunno without knowing more about your specific setup.

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Re: Throttle wiring

Post by amberwolf » May 23 2018 10:03pm

Some throttle info:

If the throttle actually did work on the previous controller with power and signal tied together, then it is not a hall based throttle, and must be a potentiometer based throttle.

It also means your previous controller was not a hall-type throttle controller, and was a potentiometer-type controller that can use a two-wire potentiometer throttle input. (A hall type controller would never get a voltage signal from the two-wire potentiometer throttle, since it wouldn't get supplied any voltage from the controller to feed back into it).

That means that if your new controller is a hall-type-throttle controller, it wouldn't work with the two-wire potentiometer throttle, and would require it to be a three-wire, so there would be a varying voltage input from the throttle to the controller.




You can verify if it's a hall throttle or not simply by having 5v on the red wire, ground on the black wire, and a voltmeter on the green wire. Then turn the throttle slowly and watch teh voltage on the meter. If it goes from 0v to 5v, it's a potentiometer (and could be wired with three wires, or by connecting the center wire to either of the other wires).

If it goes from around 1v/1.4v to around 3.5v/4.5v, it's a hall throttle (and won't work with any of it's three wires connected to any of the others).

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Re: Throttle wiring

Post by wturber » May 23 2018 10:05pm

One thing I learned a long time ago is to whip out a digital camera before messing with wiring and disassembly. That's even easier to do these days since most of us have a smart phone. Doing that has come in handy for me many times....
"Commuter - DC Booster"
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8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: Throttle wiring

Post by amberwolf » May 23 2018 10:16pm

FWIW, it might be useful to you to create a build thread for your bike(s) and/or project(s), and include all of the basic information about everything on it in there for your own reference, in case you need it in the future and don't have local versions.

Everything from which bike it is, what tires, rims, tubes, handlebars, brakes, pads, etc., to what motor, controller, battery, with all the specs for each of those things, and all of the wiring including what colors go where, could be useful info to you at some point.

Good pictures of everything is also a good idea.

Links to all of your question and troubleshooting threads, and any future upgrade/etc threads, kept in the build thread, will also make a good reference for you.


All that info may also be useful to someone else with similar or identical parts, trying to fix their own problem. :)

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Re: Throttle wiring

Post by Kenny'sID » May 24 2018 12:01am

I may do that. Already I have had to come back here for helpful info, even things I had posted and forgot/couldn't find anywhere else, so I can see how a thread like that would be handy.

Thanks for all the info on the 1500w controller and the throttle, it'll come in handy. I'm really not looking for any performance increase with the 1500 over the 1000, I just got it into my head somehow it could take a little more pressure than the 1000. With the way I'll be using it, it should be just fine, and if nothing else, it would make an excellent spare as I like to carry and extra with me. I'll at least use it for now just to see how it works. I've noticed the price on these things are 20 to $30 less than a yr or 2 ago so, the thought was to use one on my 3 wheeler, but I think I'll buy the standard 1000w for it, go back to the 1000 for the 2 wheeler I have already since there seems to be no real benefit to to the 1500, and just have the 1500 for a spare.

WT, yes, I have done that with stills as well as a quick action camera video, it really does help a lot. This was supposed to just be a quick take this off and replace it one at a time, but didn't work out that way, as often happens...to me anyway, but all is well now.

Thanks again to everyone....always a lot of good help here. :)

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