Cycle Analyst V3 on a Cyclone mid-drive

Hey all,
So I love the 3k Cyclone mid-drive on my Gravity Deadeye Monster. But the throttle response was completely unacceptable for technical low-speed riding on sand dunes here on the Oregon coast. Was like a frickin' on/off switch that you never knew the 'on' point from a dead stop. 5-10 degrees (more or less) of nothing from the twist throttle off position and then 'whammo' you get a lot of power that ramps up quickly.
So I decided to go with a Cycle Analyst (V3 CA) to manage the battery/motor/throttle along with E-brakes to kill the motor when activated. But it looks like wiring this thing in is going to be problematic. And I'm hoping some of you who have already done this can give me some advice/direction. I searched the forum and downloaded 'unofficial users guide' but can't find the answers to a few questions I have so....
1) CA V3 has just one JST-SM plug (female) Ebrake cut-off plug. WTF? I have two Ebrakes! Am I supposed to wire the Ebrakes together before going into a 'male' plug?
2) My throttle has a female plug with three wires red/black/white and two larger wires not in a plug yellow/red. The CA V3 has a female JST-SM plug for throttle input with red/black/green. Should the white from the throttle output be wired to the green on the CA input?
3) The CA-DP plug has six terminals labeled ThO, Sp, S+, S-, Gnd, and V+. Beside Gnd representing 'ground' what the heck do the rest of these designations stand for? And how would they interface with the controller that came with the Cyclone?
4) Since the controller inputs/outputs that came with the Cyclone, and the outputs that came with the Ebrakes are not compatible with the CA V3 female plugs should I replace everything with something else? Molex plugs, other JST plugs? And where would I find those? Ebay?

Thanks in advance for any/all advice.
Mark

Are you using an actual throttle or pedal sensor? If throttle you don't need ebrake cutoffs. Beware the CA will only go on top of whatever throttle response the controller already has so if there's a soft start issue or something it will still exist.

Now I get to the part where your controller doesn't have a CA connector. Sounds ghetto. You could google how to add a connector as there are many tutorials or you can get another controller. If you can program phase current you can have a good time with this motor but it won't last long.

Also I'm curious how many miles you have that you love the Cyclone, especially riding in sand. I think it's a piece of crap personally it's just easy and inexpensive.

Alrighty then...
relatively new to ebikes but thanks for all that EXTREMELY VALUABLE INPUT "flat tire". NOT! Yeah, I kinda like the amount of power the Cyclone puts out. Sure it's a little noisy but damn it can lift the wheel from a dead stop with my fat ass (220 lbs.) on board! (and that's with a 48v battery, can't imagine what it's like with a 72v battery at a full 3k watt). And with a 3-speed Nexxus IGH in the back it has lots of top end as well. Tell you what I'll race you for 'pink slips'.
-Don't need ebrake cut-offs? wtf?
-The CA will only go on top of whatever throttle response the controller already has? another BIG WTF? That's not the way I understand CA selling points. It's taking all the inputs (throttle, ebrake, PAS, Thermister) and outputting to controller, and throttle response issues can be adjusted by the CA.
So is anyone who is not a disciple of lord Bafang have some answers?
Thanks in advance,
Mark

1. CA only lets you tune the throttle signal that is SENT TO the controller...so it will still be on top of whatever processing the controller does with your throttle signal and will not, say, get rid of a soft start that already exists onboard the controller. Is that clear?

2. Bafang sucks even more than cyclone imo. Cheap weak gear sold for a very high price.

3. Why would you need a motor cutoff with your brakes when using a throttle? Just let off the throttle while braking.

4. Yes we can race but you can keep your bike when you lose.

So I should have spent more time investigating before buying that crappy Cyclone? And a Bafang is junk as well? Well then...

mammonista said:

So I should have spent more time investigating before buying that crappy Cyclone? And a Bafang is junk as well? Well then...

Click to expand...

The Cyclone will require much tinkering and frequent maintenance to stay in working order. Mostly mechanical stuff though--you probably won't burn out the motor with the stock controller, although that is a possibility if you ride especially hard. It's not a bad solution overall due to being inexpensive and easy to install but the hardware workmanship and engineering all leave something to be desired. It works, but isn't ideal for serious use.

Oh right and the way to solve the issue with the soft start is to either preprogram your current controller or buy another one which is programmable with soft start as a switchable option.

Well my Gravity/Cyclone build was a little different than most (probably?) I fabbed some custom mounts so I could get it up inside the frame above the bottom bracket. I know the battery is tooooooooo big by about 200%, but I wanted something 48v/20ah that I could use to power an electric outboard motor I was thinking of building (I live near a river). And I had no idea how big that sucker would be, but I can live with

OK, it looks like you have put a lot of thought into this build so you're on the right track with that. A few additional notes:

1) The battery being in the back is only good as a wheelie and braking assist. It's bad for cornering. Will make you understeer badly. Also, people have broken their seatposts off with that exact configuration. It looks like you have plenty of room for the battery inside your triangle if you move the controller onto the top tube.

2) Your chainring freewheel will probably break sooner than later, in fact if you check your chainrings you'll probably find that they're already loose. sickbikeparts.com has a solid replacement (stick with the ultimate version).

3) If you want a good throttle get a Domino.

mammonista said:

Hey all,
So I love the 3k Cyclone mid-drive on my Gravity Deadeye Monster. But the throttle response was completely unacceptable for technical low-speed riding on sand dunes here on the Oregon coast. Was like a frickin' on/off switch that you never knew the 'on' point from a dead stop. 5-10 degrees (more or less) of nothing from the twist throttle off position and then 'whammo' you get a lot of power that ramps up quickly.
So I decided to go with a Cycle Analyst (V3 CA) to manage the battery/motor/throttle along with E-brakes to kill the motor when activated. But it looks like wiring this thing in is going to be problematic. And I'm hoping some of you who have already done this can give me some advice/direction. I searched the forum and downloaded 'unofficial users guide' but can't find the answers to a few questions I have so....
1) CA V3 has just one JST-SM plug (female) Ebrake cut-off plug. WTF? I have two Ebrakes! Am I supposed to wire the Ebrakes together before going into a 'male' plug?
2) My throttle has a female plug with three wires red/black/white and two larger wires not in a plug yellow/red. The CA V3 has a female JST-SM plug for throttle input with red/black/green. Should the white from the throttle output be wired to the green on the CA input?
3) The CA-DP plug has six terminals labeled ThO, Sp, S+, S-, Gnd, and V+. Beside Gnd representing 'ground' what the heck do the rest of these designations stand for? And how would they interface with the controller that came with the Cyclone?
4) Since the controller inputs/outputs that came with the Cyclone, and the outputs that came with the Ebrakes are not compatible with the CA V3 female plugs should I replace everything with something else? Molex plugs, other JST plugs? And where would I find those? Ebay?

Thanks in advance for any/all advice.
Mark

Click to expand...

For anyone still wondering how to wire up the Cycle Analyst up in the most basic way to solve the Cyclone 3KW throttle deadzone problem...

I attached the v+ and v- from the 6 pin connector onto the positive and negative wires of main battery lead for the cyclone controller, and the ThO wire to the signal wire of the controllers throttle input plug.

That's it. If anyone knows a better way though feel free to correct me, I know there's a way detailed in the manual involving a standalone shunt but that wasn't included with my CA V3.

The v+ and v- power the Cycle analyst, the v- also acts as the ground for the throttle so only the ThO signal wire needs to be hooked up to the Cyclone controllers throttle plug.




Then just a case of plugging the cable from your physical throttle into the throttle input plug of the cycle analyst then fiddle around with the throttle input and output min and max voltages until you mostly eliminate the deadzones at the start and end of the throttle movement.

I keep the original LCD for the controller in place because I like the Pas power up/down buttons that also limit the max RPM of the motor under throttle control. As pas 2 setting is pefect for limiting the crank rpm to one I can easily keep up with to assist the motor while cruising even at max throttle.



Some notes:

The throttle plug on the Cycle Analyst and Cyclone controller have different pin outs, so you will have to stick a needle that is slightly bent at the end to push down the flap of metal on the pins that stops them pulling out of the back of the connector, if anyone knows a better way to repin this type of connector then pleas let me know!


Pull em out then reinsert them to match the wire colours on the cycle analysts throttle plug, pretty straightforward.




As for the input voltages on the throttle signal wire into the cyclone controller and how they correspond to throttle percentage atleast on my 40amp LCD programmable controller, it seems the cyclone controller sees about 1.24v as 0% throttle and 2.20v as 100%

Where the throttle that comes with the cyclone kit outputs around 0.83v to 3.57v (when supplied with 4.3v as is with the cyclone controller)

Which explains the huge throttle deadzones, and small aggressive "almost ON/OFF" throttle band exhibited by the stock Cyclone 3kw conversion kit.


Also there's no way to limit the speed to 15.5mph, the only speed limiter in the controller is related to limiting motor RPM, which may work for a direct drive hub, but not a mid drive because GEARS. The controller could do with a connector for a wheel magnet and a software update to support it.
(Another issue I need the CA V3 to solve)





I won't be able to reccomend the Cyclone 3KW for anyone who likes any sort of throttle control until Paco at Cyclone fixes this issue.

As an over £100 device is a steep price to pay to fix the issues yourself, and gets you into BBSHD or ToSeven DM01 and similar middrive territory price wise.



If anyone is in contact with Paco of Cyclone.com please poke him on my behalf


Bit of an old thread but this was in the results when I searched for cyclone throttle and deadzone issues... So thought I'd answer atleast part of the question:

3) The CA-DP plug has six terminals labeled ThO, Sp, S+, S-, Gnd, and V+. Beside Gnd representing 'ground' what the heck do the rest of these designations stand for? And how would they interface with the controller that came with the Cyclone?