Legal trails?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
mountainbiker24   100 µW

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Legal trails?

Post by mountainbiker24 » Jul 09 2018 9:49am

I'm obviously new here, but after doing a couple of searches, I have been unable to find a thread that discusses where e-bikes are allowed and where they are not. Is there a thread or link here that clarifies where off-road e-bikes can and cannot be legally ridden? If not, I would like to start one. Thanks!

81forest   100 W

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by 81forest » Jul 09 2018 10:46am

I am interested in this as well. I ride a lot at mtb parks and designated areas, and it seems like all of them either have no policy regarding ebikes, or they’ve already banned them. I’m not sure where I stand on it, to be honest.

2old   10 kW

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by 2old » Jul 09 2018 11:20am

In Orange County, CA, the county parks commission reportedly has banned all ebikes from all parks, but there's not much signage. The state parks seem to be divided. However, most of the systems discussed on ES would be banned everywhere in OC.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by MadRhino » Jul 09 2018 12:23pm

Here, and so many other places in the world, you can ride your ebike everywhere any other bikes are allowed to ride. If you behave, ride clever, the police won’t care.

In every country, there is a whole list of laws to get you off, but the police does enforce them only on those whoom they feel deserve to be pulled off.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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81forest   100 W

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by 81forest » Jul 09 2018 12:40pm

Op can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think he’s talking about off road specific riding areas like bike parks and trail systems for mountain bikes. Around here those are usually governed by the users that built them.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by fechter » Jul 09 2018 2:42pm

It really varies a lot with where you live. In California, Class 1 or 2 ebikes are allowed anyplace regular bikes can go unless specifically posted otherwise.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

aroundqube   1 kW

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by aroundqube » Jul 09 2018 4:30pm

World Wide Web here. The People ( with vested business interests ) For Bikes organization have started such a list for their USA target market. Also , see their creation , The Model Law. https://peopleforbikes.org/our-work/e-bikes/

mountainbiker24   100 µW

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by mountainbiker24 » Jul 09 2018 5:47pm

Yes, I am referring to singletrack type trails. I am a mountain biker, not an e-biker, but I am not opposed to e-bikes on the proper trails. I posted here, because I really want to see more multi-use trails. I believe that mountain bikers and e-mountain bikers need to be responsible and informed to maximize trail access. Information and links to legal trail usage is exactly what I am hoping for. I was talking to a forest ranger at DuPont (North Carolina Recreational Forest), and he told me there were no current laws about pedal-assist in the state forests in NC. It is my understanding that National Forests are a grey area, depending on which class of e-bike, but I am hoping you guys/girls can help me understand the regulations. Thanks for the replies!

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by AWD » Jul 09 2018 7:50pm

Beware the troll. This poster is one of the main anti e bike protagonists on MTBR from way back. Probably just drumming up some fodder to take back there and spew.
Screen Shot 2018-07-09 at 5.46.07 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-07-09 at 5.46.07 PM.png (77.62 KiB) Viewed 615 times
You might change your handle and try again but Endless Sphere has been here much longer than your awareness of eBikes. The crew here tends to be pretty considerate.

81forest   100 W

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by 81forest » Jul 09 2018 7:55pm

Whoa. Good info AWD

mountainbiker24   100 µW

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by mountainbiker24 » Jul 09 2018 9:08pm

Well, I tried to find some common ground and factual information on legal places to e-bike. I didn't think that was trolling at all. If you have something to hide, then by all means, don't post. I'm not anti e-bike. I'm anti-illegal e-bike. One screen shot without any context doesn't change anything.

P.S. By the way, what's your screen name on mtbr? I didn't feel the need to change mine...

craneplaneguy   10 kW

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by craneplaneguy » Jul 09 2018 9:22pm

Nice try, see ya.

If I wanted to get all riled up I'd start talking politics or religion. I rode today, and will ride tomorrow, thankfully not trails that mountainbiker 24 will be on.

mountainbiker24   100 µW

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by mountainbiker24 » Jul 09 2018 9:46pm

Another guy with a different screen name? What exactly did I post that was trolling? Honestly, it's people like you that are the reason I'm here. You weren't willing/able to have an intelligent conversation on mtbr, so I figured there must be some intelligent posters willing and able to discuss trail access here. Perhaps I was mistaken.

AWD   100 W

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by AWD » Jul 09 2018 10:30pm

Seriously dude, don't you get all the trail access info you need on empty beer? There is no such thing as intelligent conversation once the anti crowd starts in on that forum and you are one of the main perpetrators. Do you want me to dig for something with content to share with the folks here? You neg repped me once for no reason that I could see and paybacks are a bit chilly eh?

There is little discussion about trail access here because long ago this forum came to an understanding that you are personally responsible for your own actions. That includes what you ride and where you ride it. It is primarily a resource of information about eBikes and their components and over the years has produced ton's of good information in an open source format. You won't find many Levotees here and certainly if you were to have seen a member of this forum on the trails you would have long ago because this forum has been running for years before they were even on your radar.

mountainbiker24   100 µW

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by mountainbiker24 » Jul 09 2018 11:24pm

So you're saying that everybody here knows where they can and cannot legally ride? That would be awesome, but given the discourse on mtbr, I'm sure that's not the case.

Also, yes, feel free to bring whatever you feel best suits your agenda over here. Have my posts been anti e-bike? Yes, because most e-bikers on mtbr post that e-bikes are the same as mountain bikes and should be ridden wherever they feel appropriate despite the laws and other users. My opinion has always been, if you've actually read all of my posts, in support of e-bikes in the proper venues. My intent here is to help clarify where e-bikers can feel free to ride their e-bikes. I would like to know, as well, because I am fairly ignorant on the current laws. I don't see how that is trolling. Consider this an olive branch.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by MadRhino » Jul 09 2018 11:45pm

81forest wrote:
Jul 09 2018 12:40pm
Op can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think he’s talking about off road specific riding areas like bike parks and trail systems for mountain bikes. Around here those are usually governed by the users that built them.
One can’t rule on land that he doesn’t own, because he had built trails on it. I have trails on my own property and I am in my right to limit access to them. I also had built trails on public land and access to those are regulated by law, I have nothing to say to it.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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81forest   100 W

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by 81forest » Jul 10 2018 12:14am

MadRhino wrote:
Jul 09 2018 11:45pm

One can’t rule on land that he doesn’t own, because he had built trails on it. I have trails on my own property and I am in my right to limit access to them. I also had built trails on public land and access to those are regulated by law, I have nothing to say to it.
Ugh. I keep forgetting that almost no one on ES, with the exception of AWD, myself, and mountainbiker24, actually rides mtb. Thanks for the primer on property law, but Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance is an organization that builds and maintains trail networks in this area in collaboration with the county parks department. EMBA decides the rules that govern the trail networks that they've built, i.e. whether or not ebikes are allowed. Most other well-developed mtb riding areas have similar advocacy groups that decide the rules.

Not sure why this is such a hot topic, and maybe ES is not the place to discuss it for the reasons that AWD mentioned. It's too bad because it is going to be very easy for groups like EMBA to simply "ban" all ebikes, just like they've been banned from the epic Phil's Trails in Bend, OR. Personally, as a "traditional" mountain bike rider, I'm on the fence with an open mind. There was a guy at one of our local favorite spots who showed up with a mid-drive full suspension trail bike. He got the side-eye from everybody, but he wanted people to ride it. He actually wanted strangers to ride his bike, just to show good faith/common ground. Everyone who tried the bike liked it, and "It's not like a dirt bike, it's just an assist- and it's pretty awesome" was the consensus. Turned out the owner was an absolute ripper, who was hitting lines that none of us wanted to try, ebike or not.
In my opinion, it was great PR for e-mtbs, and we all came away better informed. Hope that can continue.

mountainbiker24   100 µW

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by mountainbiker24 » Jul 10 2018 7:24am

Fair enough. Can anybody point me towards a site where e-bikers ride public off-road trails? I appreciate the helpful responses. Take care!

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by MadRhino » Jul 10 2018 5:56pm

Most of us do. In every country, there are mountain trails where ebikers are riding, legally or not. There are always some hours of the day when we can safely ride our powerful bikes. Up to you to find them in your region. No one will make a list of every place in the world where ebikers are riding the mountain trails.

I ride very early, long before the crowd invasion of the trails. I am way too fast to ride with other users climbing the mountain, for I have to stop every time in their tail. Most of all, I don’t like to scare trekkers or dog walkers on my way. So my favourite rides are 5 AM. Later in the day, I ride the forest roads, for they are wide and clear enough to speed safely with other users in the way.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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mountainbiker24   100 µW

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by mountainbiker24 » Jul 10 2018 6:23pm

Are you advocating poaching? Or are you saying that you choose to ride legally at times that are most responsible?

81forest   100 W

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by 81forest » Jul 10 2018 7:34pm

I did some research today. Here in Washington state, the answer to the question “where can you trail ride your emtb” is “pretty much no where.”

WA’s new law basically bans ebikes from all “natural surface” trails, unless specifically allowed by a local jurisdiction governing entity. Evergreen MBA had a lot to do with the legislation, and they don’t allow ebikes on any of the trail networks they manage (Duthie, Tiger, Collinade, many more.) Another great riding area we have, Tokul, also prohibits ebikes. However, we’ve seen emtbs riding there.

Basically it kills the idea of having an e-mtb in this state, for the time being. I could drive to an ohv area to ride an e-mountain bike, but I ride dirt bikes already, and if I’m trucking a bike to my local spot you’d better believe I’m going to be riding my 40 horsepower 2–stroke :twisted:

I get it. Mountain bikers don’t want ebikes on the trails, for reasons both good and totally stupid. At the end of the day, mountain bike advocates are the reason we have some of these amazing networks, so I respect their views. I do ride a human powered mtb too, after all, and I’m super grateful for all the work that evergreen and groups like them have done.

Emtb riders/advocates are going to have to start forming orgs, going to meetings, talking to local reps, building alliances, etc if they want to change things. Maybe it will happen, maybe not.

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by markz » Jul 10 2018 7:55pm

There was no geographic area in which the question was asked, so you just wanted a list of legal trails all across the United States where ebikes are allowed. That is impossible. Every city/county/province/state has different laws, different areas to ride ebikes.


On a side note:
On the talk radio today there was a discussion on banning bicycles from the road. Yet every fuckwad idiot driver thinks that is illegal. Run across those fuckwads all the time. Many have called the fuzz on me especially when I ride in the winter. Its a joke, an absolute joke. Drivers have no respect for anyone. Anyways - The host was spitting BS like bicycle on North and West sides, pedestrians on South and East sides.

I guess my point is that you have to seek, search and find out what laws apply to your area. I know for a fact there is lots of variance depending on the fuzz whom you interact with. This day in age, lots of people are rats because they got a cell phone. They will snitch on ya for obeying the law -> Riding a bicycle on the roadway. Then confrontation time someone will be even more of a ratty snitchbitch and start video taping it.

81forest   100 W

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by 81forest » Jul 10 2018 8:29pm

^^^Yep. It’s pretty amazing to see the bloodthirsty savagery that nice, normal people are sometimes capable of behind the wheel of a car. I find that upper middle class “soccer moms” are some of the most dangerous people in the world when I’m commuting by bike.

I’ve had people yell, honk, throw eggs, swerve at me, and I’ve even been hit by a burrito. I’ve been a bike messenger or a commuter for the last 25 years and I go out of my way to be courteous. But I have no doubt that there have been moments when if the driver was able to literally murder me with their car, and get away with it consequence-free with no blood or guts on their car, they would have done it. frock them.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by MadRhino » Jul 10 2018 11:32pm

mountainbiker24 wrote:
Jul 10 2018 6:23pm
Are you advocating poaching? Or are you saying that you choose to ride legally at times that are most responsible?
The trails that I ride are allowed to ebikes, bikes, pedestrians, dogs... and I have contributed building some of them, but a 20kw ebike is illegal anywhere. So I never ride legal if that is what you want to know. Yet I’ve been riding a lot of mileage on streets and trails every year for the last 10 years, without any problems other than my fair share of crash pain. The only ticket I’ve had in those 10 years was for the helmet law that became applicable to ebikes here, 2 years ago.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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2old   10 kW

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Re: Legal trails?

Post by 2old » Jul 11 2018 9:19am

This individual is interested in stirring up crap, nothing else. Best to stop feeding his frenzy, letting the thread die and getting back to positive concerns.

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