Help with ebike presentation

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
dilkes   100 W

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Help with ebike presentation

Post by dilkes » Jul 23 2018 4:33pm

I’m looking for some help/guidance from the ebike community.

I may be asked to give a presentation to one of our local cycling associations on the topic of ebikes. If it happens, it would be a bit of work for me, but perhaps a great opportunity to spread the gospel and diffuse some of the misconceptions (although I might wear my helmet in case someone throws something!)

I’m thinking of dusting off my PowerPoint skills and putting something together and also bringing one or two ebikes to the meeting for some show and tell.

So rather than reinvent the wheel (pun intended) I was wondering if anyone had or could steer me to any material that I could use to help me get this together.

I haven’t done a whole lot of thinking yet, but am thinking along the lines of the outline below.

Any contributions appreciated.

OVERVIEW
WHAT IS AN EBIKE
WHY PEOPLE CHOOSE ONE

LEGISLATION
FEDERAL, PROVINCIAL
MUNICIPAL

TECHNICAL
MOTORS – HUB, MID-DRIVE, FRICTION
BATTERIES
OTHER BITS AND PIECES

CHOOSING A BIKE FOR YOU
RIDING HABITS/NEEDS
DIY vs PURPOSE-BUILT

SUMMARY AND Q AND A’S

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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by amberwolf » Jul 23 2018 4:49pm

Arkmundi did some presentations some years back; he may have a thread about it, if the info is useful.

It doesn't appear to be in this list, but there's some other presentation threads that may also have info you could use
search.php?keywords=presentation*&terms ... mit=Search

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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by lionman » Jul 24 2018 4:01am

Don't do a powerpoint presentation. They will bore people to death.

If you do need to do one just make it some nice pictures, not dot points.

Nothing worse than watching someone talk to slides of dot points. Engage the audience. Get them listening, not reading off the screen.

Good luck!

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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by parajared » Jul 24 2018 12:29pm

Maybe mention how it is faster to get around in big cities with them, say you mention the time it takes to get from point A to B in Las Angeles traffic vs point A to B on a bike path.

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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by zro-1 » Jul 24 2018 1:05pm

Since this is a presentation to your local cycling association, they probably already know the virtues of cycling vs driving. Perhaps you can differentiate cycling for sport/exercise vs cycling for utility and commuting, and how an ebike makes that easier and available to a wider range of people. try to keep the topics inspirational rather than conforming to the regulations. There are lots of videos online about how ebikes have given people their lives, mobility, and independence back.

If you sense that you're getting pushback and skepticism from the cyclists, you may want to point out that the vast majority of ebikes go unnoticed every day. Many cyclists (in my area anyway) think of ebikes as motorcycles with pedals because the only ebikes they notice are the ones ripping down bike trails, walkways, park paths, and non-vehicle pathways at 30 mph. They don't notice the much more common cases where the ebikes blend right in. Show them that.
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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by wturber » Jul 24 2018 1:15pm

What I see missing is a thesis statement. What's the message if you could say it in one sentence?

It may help to have it clear in your mind what you hope to accomplish with your presentation.

And if you want people to pay attention tell a story and have a point of view. You could tell a short stories. For instance:

" I know this couple who just rode a tandem tricycle from Lyon France to the Caspian Sea in Iran - a trip of over 3000 miles in a little more than 30 days. They were supposed to go all the way to China, but that would have taken too long since they already had wedding plans ...
While fit, they aren't exactly elite level athletes and they didn't do any special training for the trip. They used an e-bike ..."

And from there you could launch into what an e-bike is, what it does, and what it makes possible - anything from cross-country journeys to making a a bike trip to the grocery store practical for someone with fitness or disability issues.

Of course, you could use any of a number of interesting stories that you might know. But Justin and An-So's recent trip is a pretty spectacular and interesting story IMO. And as I think about it, I think that would guide my thesis statement formation to be something like this. "E-bikes are interesting and spectacular because they make possible a greater variety of bicycling riding and adventure for a wider variety of people."
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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by wturber » Jul 24 2018 1:30pm

zro-1 wrote:
Jul 24 2018 1:05pm
If you sense that you're getting pushback and skepticism from the cyclists, you may want to point out that the vast majority of ebikes go unnoticed every day. Many cyclists (in my area anyway) think of ebikes as motorcycles with pedals because the only ebikes they notice are the ones ripping down bike trails, walkways, park paths, and non-vehicle pathways at 30 mph. They don't notice the much more common cases where the ebikes blend right in. Show them that.
And beware the "e-bikes are cheating" attitude. The simple and non-confrontational response is that the activity of e-biking and cycling should be thought of as two different things. The second point I'd bring up is that studies have shown that e-bikes actually increase total exercise for the typical e-bike rider. Why? Because the e-bikers end up riding more!!
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by dustNbone » Jul 24 2018 5:15pm

The whole "cheating" thing always confuses me. Cheating implies some sort of competition is taking place.

I do not remember entering a bicycle race.

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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by wturber » Jul 24 2018 5:22pm

dustNbone wrote:
Jul 24 2018 5:15pm
The whole "cheating" thing always confuses me. Cheating implies some sort of competition is taking place.

I do not remember entering a bicycle race.
An implied competition for strength, fitness and endurance seems to exist as a subtext among road cycling folks. At least that was my experience twenty or so years ago. I suspect online systems like Strava perpetuate this tendency. That's why it seems sensible to me to just make it clear that e-biking is a "different thing" right from the outset. Related, sure. But definitely a different thing.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by parajared » Jul 25 2018 1:17pm

The whole "cheating" thing always confuses me. Cheating implies some sort of competition is taking place.

I do not remember entering a bicycle race.
I imagine it from their perspective, you are chugging down the road on your $1500 carbon fiber bike in your Lyrca suit and feeling fairly confident in your athleticism. You glance behind you and some tee-shirt wearing dude on a mountain bike is staring to gain on you. Dignity beginning to get hampered a bit you step on the peddles. Try hard mode engaged now, MTB dude still gaining! Oh crap, you are giving it your all and mountain biker passes, no apparent evidence of a motor or anything; you exhausted and bewildered.

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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by LockH » Jul 25 2018 1:32pm

Hehe... Hey Fred. My theory? Some folks might like getting around town quicker while saving TONS of money (versus car ownership... TTC pubic transport... etc.

:wink:
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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by LockH » Jul 25 2018 1:39pm

lionman wrote:
Jul 24 2018 4:01am
Don't do a powerpoint presentation. They will bore people to death.
Hehe... Agree! Try "saving lots of money". :) I've spent near half my life "on vacation"... where car ownership would have been a HUGE WASTE of financial resources.
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
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Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by wturber » Jul 25 2018 2:00pm

parajared wrote:
Jul 25 2018 1:17pm
The whole "cheating" thing always confuses me. Cheating implies some sort of competition is taking place.

I do not remember entering a bicycle race.
I imagine it from their perspective, you are chugging down the road on your $1500 carbon fiber bike in your Lyrca suit and feeling fairly confident in your athleticism. You glance behind you and some tee-shirt wearing dude on a mountain bike is staring to gain on you. Dignity beginning to get hampered a bit you step on the peddles. Try hard mode engaged now, MTB dude still gaining! Oh crap, you are giving it your all and mountain biker passes, no apparent evidence of a motor or anything; you exhausted and bewildered.
Yeah. A month or so ago I passed a road cyclist in the bike lane on a moderate downhill. I was probably doing 28 mph and he appeared to be coasting to take a break. So I rang my bell and zipped on by. Now Imagine what he saw. Some guy on this black mountain bike with a black front basket, far too many lights, and some weird looking panniers. Add to this that I've got an old ratty backpack on, am wearing a white t-shirt and am pedaling away with pretty standard sneakers.

Anyway, I noticed that this fellow picked up the pace after I had passed him (yes, I have a rear-view mirror too) and he caught up with me shortly at a stop light at the bottom of the hill. I was braced for an icy meeting when he pulled up behind me and said something on the order of, "Oh good. I'm sure glad to see that motor." He was a nice fellow (retired but clearly fit) and we had a nice chat for the next mile or so about his very nice carbon fiber bike, my old Trek 1400 and so forth. Then I explained that I had to get into work, sed nice chattin' with ya, kicked up the PAS level, and sped off.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by LockH » Jul 25 2018 2:36pm

Hehe... ^^ Golden. :)

Might also point out, in a world currently being swamped with ebike manufacturers, that there are "cheaper" conversion kits available? For the cost of a used, steel frame bike, PLUS TORQUE ARMS :mrgreen: , etc. yah gain far more knowledge, plus maybe some tools... to know how to fix "stuff" when "things go wrong"... watt they invariably do. :lol:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by LockH » Jul 25 2018 2:39pm

Hehe... and maybe let folks know that for local ebike stores, their Number One Selling Tool goes something like "Would you like a test ride?".

:mrgreen:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by LockH » Jul 25 2018 2:42pm

BTW Fred... "I may be asked to give a presentation to one of our local cycling association"...

Where and when please?
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
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Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
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Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by dilkes » Jul 26 2018 11:00am

LockH wrote:
Jul 25 2018 2:42pm
BTW Fred... "I may be asked to give a presentation to one of our local cycling association"...

Where and when please?
Don't know for sure. likely not till fall or later...if at all.
This is the group.
https://beyondtheautomobile.ca/bikeminds/

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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by teklektik » Jul 26 2018 12:13pm

A quick trip to the site seems to indicate these are not competitive Spandex sorts but folks with a lifestyle view of cycling. After having more than a few conversations with similar-minded people I would recommend orienting your presentation around improving the cycling experience they already enjoy rather than presenting ebikes as an alternative. You might even title your presentation something like "ebiking: enhancing the cycling experience". This is upbeat, gives focus and direction to the discussion, and starts off with you squarely on 'their side'.

You might start by clarifying the idea of partial assist while pedaling instead of 'either/or' 'pedal/motorcycling' which is the most common misconception that I encounter. Present it as riding a tandem with a stoker to help when needed - you still are pedaling but get some help to make the hard parts less burdensome. Just ask the audience if riding a bicycle-built-for-two means the riders are 'cheating' (looking for a laugh here...). Tell them ebiking is the same deal except you don't need to be married to the other rider or listen to the chatter. This part should lay the groundwork for making ebiking seem an extension of what they already like about cycling rather than a completely different experience - they aren't giving something up.

Next you might look at situations where ebiking can expand the normal cycling experience to provide a solution to difficult cycling problems. Here you are not confronting those who see ebiking as a threat or competion but rather are enabling those who would like to cycle but cannot. Mention some different cycling demographics where ebikes can assist: the folks who like to commute but need to arrive at work without needing a shower, people saddled with tough terrains, people who like to ride but are finding some old favorite routes more challenging as they get older, folks who would like to ride but don't because they're not quite up to it anymore or are afraid of some health issue (bad knee acts up, exertion) making the trip home too compromising, folks who just want to do local grocery or errand runs without an automobile, etc.

I would stay away from the 'motorcycle' type ebikes prevalent on ES and show what ebikes look like and make them more familiar. Present some pictures of Kepler's friction drive and his bikes - unobtrusive, low powered, inexpensive. Very 'cycling oriented'. Move on to bikes sold at federally regulated power levels and show some design options there, relating them to your previous demographics - the step throughs, cargo bikes for groceries, sportier models for just plain riding. Here you are trying to show the range of ebike solutions available so your audience can see things that might help them personally. A quick sequence of pictures here without a lot of commentary on each would keep the presentation moving while making the ebikes seem more familiar and revealing possibilities. And of course you point out the possibility of DIY upgrade to their existing favorite ride.

Once you have made the pitch to get them interested, you can move on to a bit of the familiar low level technical stuff, charging, range, controls, pedal assist, weight, etc. so they get a glimpse of the 'user manual' differences from a regular bike and what they might expect as problems/advantages over what they are doing now.

You can get into the technical stuff, but frankly I would make that a pretty 30,000ft view instead of doing a deep dive into 'service manual' stuff. Have some extra images/slides to flesh out these areas for the Q&A but don't force it as part of the main presentation. If there's interest, you will be prepared, but if there's not, folks won't feel overwhelmed with stuff they don't 'get' but assume they will need to know. (Here you are catering to "I want a red car that goes fast and I don't care how it works...").

Finally, you might get to law which is pretty much a downer and can be annoying to get across (Lord knows we still have folks on ES who insist the Feds limit ebikes to 20mph...). This is the 'restriction' side of the coin and it's likely best to avoid having the audience get that negative stuff in their heads too soon and detracting from the upbeat stuff you really want to convey. If your presentation runs long, this is the stuff that you can decide to cut or hurry through - it's not your main message about ebikes improving their cycling experience. If there's interest you can explain this in more detail in the Q&A. Importantly, for many cyclists, this low power stuff is exactly what they are looking for...

Anyhow - this can be done many ways, but your success will depend on getting the audience to see that ebikes offer them a solution or an advantage without losing the benefits of the cycling they already love. If you go in talking about 5kW motorcycles with pedals that can do 45mph, you will lose them before you ever get started because that is not their world view.

... just some thoughts.... :D
Last edited by teklektik on Jul 26 2018 12:35pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by dilkes » Jul 26 2018 12:29pm

teklektik wrote:
Jul 26 2018 12:13pm
A quick tip to the site seems to indicate these are not competitive Spandex sorts but folks with a lifestyle view of cycling. After having more than a few conversations with similar-minded people I would recommend orienting your presentation around improving the cycling experience they already enjoy rather than presenting ebikes as an alternative. You might even title your presentation something like "ebiking: enhancing the cycling experience". This is upbeat, gives focus and direction to the discussion, and starts off with you squarely on 'their side'.

...and more

... just some thoughts.... :D
Thanks for taking the time to give suggestions on how to best relate to an audience like this. I really appreciate it!

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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by wturber » Jul 26 2018 1:38pm

teklektik wrote:
Jul 26 2018 12:13pm
A quick trip to the site seems to indicate these are not competitive Spandex sorts but folks with a lifestyle view of cycling. After having more than a few conversations with similar-minded people I would recommend orienting your presentation around improving the cycling experience they already enjoy rather than presenting ebikes as an alternative. You might even title your presentation something like "ebiking: enhancing the cycling experience". This is upbeat, gives focus and direction to the discussion, and starts off with you squarely on 'their side'.
Given we now understand the audience better, the approach outlined and detailed by teklektik seems an excellent way to go, IMO. His points also mirror my motivations for building an e-bike. I wanted to commute to work and the distance (16 miles) and hills (up to 15% grade) were significant obstacles to doing so practically. Even if I trained my butt off, I'd be doing quite well to make the commute in an hour's time. And that doesn't even factor in the summer temps in the 100+ degree category or the fact that I'm 59 and my fitness will eventually decline. My first thought about the e-bike was that it was to be a hill flattener. Adding a motor to a bicycle makes it so much more practical and retains the fun.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by LockH » Jul 26 2018 1:57pm

Hehe... Hey Fred... yah know they already asked me? Got an email recently:
Hello Folks
Lock will have a lot to say about the "transformation" from car culture, to bike culture, add E-bikes and then there will be no more cars.
I'm joking but Lock may be the most knowledgeable and vocal proponent of e-bike in Toronto. As we all know e-bikes are extremely popular in Amsterdam and other cycling cities.
This link shows what Matt & Michelle had done last year. This year, they are moving east.
BIKE
MINDS
... asking if I could give a "FIVE MINUTE Presentation" (!!!) ACK! About stuff I've been babbling about for near twenty years? :lol:

MY "problem" maybe, is I like to quote folks like American Ben Franklin...
Image

:lol: ... so these days just mention about getting around town quicker while saving lots of money. Watt seems to make ears perk up. :mrgreen:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by LockH » Jul 26 2018 2:29pm

These days, have moved close to the Scarborough Bluffs in east Toronto...

Watt are crumbling, giving features like the Bluffs park and beach... and creating the islands just off Toronto. So maybe mention "acid rain"?
https://www3.epa.gov/acidrain/education ... auses.html

In part:
In addition, the exhaust from cars, trucks, and buses releases nitrogen oxides and sulfur dioxide into the air. These pollutants cause acid rain.
Lets just say I wouldn't wish to be a home owner living at the top of the "Bluffs" looking for home insurance. :mrgreen:

So some folks might be interested in cutting their contribution to acid rain. :lol:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by zro-1 » Jul 26 2018 8:09pm

wturber wrote:
Jul 24 2018 1:30pm
And beware the "e-bikes are cheating" attitude
I always like to respond: Technically riding a bicycle is "cheating" because a bicycle gives you a mechanical advantage over a person getting along just on their own two feet. Ebikes are just the next step enabling more people to enjoy those same mechanical advantages for various reasons.
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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by zro-1 » Jul 26 2018 8:25pm

I have to say that teklektik's post is the best advice for this particular crowd.

The company I work for lets employees give "night school" classes where they can talk to fellow employees about something that they love. I've been approached twice about giving a class on ebikes *. I think I'm going to use many of the items brought up here to help me with some talking points if I decide to do the class.

* My company already promotes bikes as a way to get to work. They built a dedicated bike room with racks, tools, stands, lockers, and showers. We now have 6 or 7 ebikers at the company and about 30 cyclists.
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Re: Help with ebike presentation

Post by wturber » Jul 26 2018 8:35pm

LockH wrote:
Jul 26 2018 1:57pm

:lol: ... so these days just mention about getting around town quicker while saving lots of money. Watt seems to make ears perk up. :mrgreen:
If that works where you live, great. That's seldom (if ever) true in my neck of the woods.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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