QS 205 experts needed

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changeissimple   10 W

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QS 205 experts needed

Post by changeissimple » Jul 30 2018 1:19pm

I am about to get started upgrading my MAC motor on 48v to a QS 205 on 72v. Hoping people on here could share some words of wisdom and advice before i started dissecting my current set-up and installing the QS205. I have a new controller and throttle coming as well. I will hook it up to my CA DP and hoping to set up the regen brakes to supply as much power back as possible. Any advice is welcome. Thank you in advance.

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brumbrum   100 kW

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by brumbrum » Jul 30 2018 1:39pm

Put it in a small wheel.. The smaller the better
Add 8ml of Statorade
Appropriate swingarm mounting solution to take power/torque and weight
Plenty of room for the exiting motor wire harness
High discharge batteries as the motor will demand lots of amps
Controllable throttle that ramps up slowly and smoothly - a configurable controller
Good arm leg and back muscles (if you ever want to pick up the bike)
My NYX and cromotor build
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74615
My LMX 161 dirt bike build
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=94074

markz   100 GW

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by markz » Jul 30 2018 2:19pm

Whats the main route and terrain you will be using it for?
Is it commuting to work with stop and go traffic or strictly offroading, maybe you have lots of steep long hills.

Whats your speed requirements?
With that, and since you already purchased a controller and battery, then you can determine what Turn Count motor to buy.

Dont forget Torque Arms and will you be lacing the wheel yourself or have QS do it. I would suggest you do it yourself or get someone local to do it for you so you know for a fact you have a great strong rim with quality spokes, plus if you break spokes or have to build it again you can do it.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by MadRhino » Jul 30 2018 2:34pm

You are trading a sheep for a horse.
The QS 205 is made in a variety of versions. You have to be specific.

The QS 205 50H v3 that I am riding does require a trapezoidal or sine wave controller. Square wave doesn’t survive the first ride.

Strong torque plates or pinch dropouts required. It is capable of 160nm torque as spec, much more if you feed it high power.

Make sure you order the adequate winding for your wheel/voltage/speed. The low turn count windings of this motor are very fast.

It does come standard for 10ga spokes, but I order them custom drilled for bicycle spokes. They didn’t charge any extra, but I don’t know if they do now.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by Sunder » Jul 30 2018 6:00pm

MadRhino wrote:
Jul 30 2018 2:34pm
You are trading a sheep for a horse.
The QS 205 is made in a variety of versions. You have to be specific.

The QS 205 50H v3 that I am riding does require a trapezoidal or sine wave controller. Square wave doesn’t survive the first ride.
Out of curiosity, why is that? I am thinking of using the 205's bigger brother, the 273.

It will most likely be with a Kelly Sinewave controller, but if I find something else more appropriate that's square or trapezoidal, I'm curious as to why they will die.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: Still on grid, but with LTO batteries and 3kw LF inverter...

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by MadRhino » Jul 30 2018 6:31pm

Sunder wrote:
Jul 30 2018 6:00pm
MadRhino wrote:
Jul 30 2018 2:34pm
You are trading a sheep for a horse.
The QS 205 is made in a variety of versions. You have to be specific.

The QS 205 50H v3 that I am riding does require a trapezoidal or sine wave controller. Square wave doesn’t survive the first ride.
Out of curiosity, why is that? I am thinking of using the 205's bigger brother, the 273.

It will most likely be with a Kelly Sinewave controller, but if I find something else more appropriate that's square or trapezoidal, I'm curious as to why they will die.
This has to do with the pole/magnet count ratio. I believe the square wave does last too long and short to the next. The trapezoidal wave does work, that is the eb3 infineon board that I run now. All the most recent infineon boards are fine. It is only the eb1 and eb2 that are square wave. When I rebuilt the bike with the 205, I exploded 3 controllers in a day. It is only by luck that the fourth was a trapezoidal wave eb3. I didn't even know it was.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by Sunder » Jul 30 2018 6:43pm

Ah, cool, good to know.

Is that also related to the maximum eRPM the controllers are rated for? I.e. if the eRPM was over the required, would square wave be safe?

Thanks.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: Still on grid, but with LTO batteries and 3kw LF inverter...

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by MadRhino » Jul 30 2018 6:59pm

Sunder wrote:
Jul 30 2018 6:43pm
Ah, cool, good to know.

Is that also related to the maximum eRPM the controllers are rated for? I.e. if the eRPM was over the required, would square wave be safe?

Thanks.
Nope. The problem is that a square wave does make contact too long, thus short to the next magnet while it is still on the previous pole. A trapezoidal wave being narrower at the top, does make contact shorter, and a sine wave even shorter. That is how I understand it. My explanation doesn’t come from any technical knowledge, only logic. Anyway, QS Motor did confirm that this motor does not work with square wave controllers. I don’t know about the 273, that is not a motor that I had considered, because of the weight.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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changeissimple   10 W

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by changeissimple » Aug 01 2018 11:58am

Thanks for all the replies. I have the QS 205 50h v3 30*4T. It is laced on 17" rim and being mounted on a moped. I use to drive around town, commute a few miles here and there. Not super hilly where I am. just regular roads and street lights. I have a 72v 18650 70amp battery. My controller is the QSKLS7230S with blue tooth, regrettably I realized the bluetooth app is android. I am wondering about a work around? or just skip it.
Things I need help figuring out are the wiring into the CA-DP. The diagrams I have seen are confusing. I need something straight forward.
Connecting the throttle up and power switch as well. I saw a few posts which do help there but one thing is: quoted from post below:::

"throttle red goes to number 4 purple
throttle black goes to number 20 black
throttle green goes to number 3 green

Your motor halls connect to
Black number 21 to black
Purple number 5 to red
Blue 16 hall1
Green 17 hall2
Yellow 18 hall3

Then you need pink wire number 7 to touch the positive of the battery to let the motor spin"
What is this pink #7 to touch positive of the battery? Should I literally tie it into the battery positive side of the connector?

Do I need a Shunt??? Anywhere in this set up? I see lots of references to shunts but unclear if and where to use one on my set up. Lights and horn are run off a small independent 12v Lead acid battery.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by MadRhino » Aug 01 2018 2:38pm

Lights, horn and accessories are better powered by a DC/DC converter. Vicor is the best. Or, there are now available some lights/horn kits that are ´universal’, up to 85c DC.

Mopeds are usually not so good at handling the full power of a QS205h50. Let’s say, many would need some upgrades, suspension and brakes especially. The way it goes, with what you plan, it will do 50 mph.

CADP is normally plugged to CA ready controllers. But, a direct plug in cable can be fitted to most controllers with some patience. I can’t help, my only display now, is volt. An OS app does exist for bluetooth equipped controllers that are built on recent Infineon boards. Worrh a try.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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changeissimple   10 W

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by changeissimple » Aug 01 2018 3:30pm

MadRhino wrote:
Aug 01 2018 2:38pm
Lights, horn and accessories are better powered by a DC/DC converter. Vicor is the best. Or, there are now available some lights/horn kits that are ´universal’, up to 85c DC.

Mopeds are usually not so good at handling the full power of a QS205h50. Let’s say, many would need some upgrades, suspension and brakes especially. The way it goes, with what you plan, it will do 50 mph.

CADP is normally plugged to CA ready controllers. But, a direct plug in cable can be fitted to most controllers with some patience. I can’t help, my only display now, is volt. An OS app does exist for bluetooth equipped controllers that are built on recent Infineon boards. Worrh a try.
My "moped" is really more of a 125 motorcycle, looks like a motorcycle, really good suspension on both ends. Wider tires. It can easily 50mph, I'm getting 37 on it with my current set up and it wants more!! I'm running 48v 1500watt motor now.

I was hoping to pop this new equipment on in 4-5 hours but as soon as it all arrived I realized I may be in over my head. Especially looking at the Cycle Analyst connection diagrams and the throttle and power key switch not being a direct connection.
I also want to set up regen brakes, which I currently have, but that also seems intricate. So I'm in need of support. One way or another I'm going to do it, but I am def. hoping someone can offer some reallly good tips.

litespeed   100 kW

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by litespeed » Aug 01 2018 9:51pm

MadRhino wrote:
Aug 01 2018 2:38pm
Lights, horn and accessories are better powered by a DC/DC converter. Vicor is the best. Or, there are now available some lights/horn kits that are ´universal’, up to 85c DC.

Mopeds are usually not so good at handling the full power of a QS205h50. Let’s say, many would need some upgrades, suspension and brakes especially. The way it goes, with what you plan, it will do 50 mph.

CADP is normally plugged to CA ready controllers. But, a direct plug in cable can be fitted to most controllers with some patience. I can’t help, my only display now, is volt. An OS app does exist for bluetooth equipped controllers that are built on recent Infineon boards. Worrh a try.
Any links to these “available some lights/horn kits?”

Thanks

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by MadRhino » Aug 02 2018 4:08am

Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

litespeed   100 kW

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by litespeed » Aug 02 2018 7:25am

I thought you were referring to a whole street legal universal kit.

Thanks,

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by MadRhino » Aug 02 2018 12:33pm

They a making it too. Ready fit to major motorcycle brands.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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changeissimple   10 W

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by changeissimple » Aug 05 2018 7:45am

I am trying to bench test my qs205 with the kelly KLs7230s.
I have one of those throttles with the 5 wires, voltage meter and key switch, seen on my qs motors. I connected the wires from the throttle with using the outline: red wire goes to Purple 5v(4), black wire goes to Black GND(20), green wire goes to Green throttle(3). Then blue wire goes to Pink PWR(7) to power up the kelly controller. The yellow wire goes to the bus bar red wire side For the voltage display.
I plugged in hall sensor connector, And connected blue, green, yellow phase wires to the corresponding color on the kelly controller.
Connected the battery.
Turned the key switch on the throttle and nothing happened. What am I missing? Please help!!

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by MadRhino » Aug 05 2018 8:22am

First try another throttle. It might be as simple as that. Those throttles with voltmeter are good and I like them, but they are made with poor design and quality control.

I don’t like that the voltmeter is using controller ground. They need to be mod so the volmeter is independant, connected to battery alone. The switch is cheap as crap, I take it off and use my usual handlebar switch. The signal curve of the hall throttle is good on a start for a powerful bike, but I find the course too long and bothering on the wrist.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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changeissimple   10 W

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Re: QS & Kelly experts needed

Post by changeissimple » Aug 06 2018 12:09pm

MadRhino wrote:
Aug 05 2018 8:22am
First try another throttle. It might be as simple as that. Those throttles with voltmeter are good and I like them, but they are made with poor design and quality control.

I don’t like that the voltmeter is using controller ground. They need to be mod so the volmeter is independant, connected to battery alone. The switch is cheap as crap, I take it off and use my usual handlebar switch. The signal curve of the hall throttle is good on a start for a powerful bike, but I find the course too long and bothering on the wrist.
I ordered a new throttle. QS also told me that I needed to "Auto_Identify function for Kelly controller and QS motor" using a computer or android app. Of which, I have neither a PC or an android phone. I am an apple guy. I tried another switch I had this morning but it didn't wake up the controller. I am confident that the controller and motor are new and working, but it is either the switch/throttle or the fact that I need to get into the software to program. BUT looking for any help that anyone is willing to offer. Thanks!!

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by MadRhino » Aug 06 2018 5:12pm

Should be easy to find a friend who has an Android phone, or a PC. Alternatively, you could probably find a used Android phone for cheap at the local pawn shop. Then mount it on your bike and use it as a speedometer, GPS, DashCam, tracker, atop of being able to monitor and program your controller.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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changeissimple   10 W

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by changeissimple » Aug 08 2018 8:39am

Could someone take a look at this album of photos and video and let me know what I am doing wrong. https://photos.app.goo.gl/haUfbcwuHvcgUPzG6

2WheelsMovesTheSoul   100 W

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by 2WheelsMovesTheSoul » Aug 09 2018 1:37pm

You will not be able to use that motor until you complete the "auto identify sequence".

Doesn't matter if all connections are perfect. Until you go thru the menu and ID the motor, nothing will work.

Until the ID is complete, the controller is limited to less than 100w of power, just enough to spin the motor both ways with no load (as in tire off the ground).

Rhino has the right idea. Find a cheap Android phone with 4.0 or better and download the app. You will need the "optional' BT dongle from Kelly but this will allow quick and easy changes to the setup menus on the go. No need for serial/usb adapter and pewter.

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changeissimple   10 W

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by changeissimple » Aug 09 2018 4:36pm

2WheelsMovesTheSoul wrote:
Aug 09 2018 1:37pm
You will not be able to use that motor until you complete the "auto identify sequence".

Doesn't matter if all connections are perfect. Until you go thru the menu and ID the motor, nothing will work.

Until the ID is complete, the controller is limited to less than 100w of power, just enough to spin the motor both ways with no load (as in tire off the ground).

Rhino has the right idea. Find a cheap Android phone with 4.0 or better and download the app. You will need the "optional' BT dongle from Kelly but this will allow quick and easy changes to the setup menus on the go. No need for serial/usb adapter and pewter.
Will the controller turn on if I haven't run the Auto identify sequence? Because right now, nothing is turning on at all. I do have the Blue tooth dongle.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by MadRhino » Aug 09 2018 6:46pm

Normally it does turn on, but it will not spin all motors. The basic preset is for average motor and since there are no universal standards, many motors will not spin until the controller detection sequence had identified their configuration.

Yet, if the controller had been purchased with the motor, it would be good practice from the seller to set it to work prior to shipping.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

2WheelsMovesTheSoul   100 W

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by 2WheelsMovesTheSoul » Aug 10 2018 10:06am

Yes, the controller should turn on and at least give you some action on the main LED and or the LED on the BT dongle, provided you have power and ground on the main lines and then power up #7 (pink wire).

As a side note, remember the controller can accept 3 types of throttles: 0-5v, 0-5k or 2k-20k, or hall sensor. You WILL need to change as it is 0-5k from factory if memory serves. There are no dip switches or any other way to change this.

I cannot stress enough the ABSOLUTE <----you are getting this right? need for you to get the BT dongle up and running before you waste anymore time trying to figure out why it isn't working or why new parts are not fixing it either. Chances are you just need to properly setup the type of inputs, any extra features like brake regen or analog regen, 3 speed switch, reversing, throttle dead low, dead high, ect....

There is like 4 whole pages of programming options. Get everything hooked up. Get the App running, use the diagnostic screen to get an actual visual confirmation each input is being seen by the controller then get back to us with any problems you might still have.

I will tell you this. My connections were color matched perfectly, G-G, Y-Y, B-B, and even so, when I completed the "motor ID" which takes about 15-25 seconds, reset power, turned it back on and twisted the throttle, the motor spun the wrong way. I just used the "change direction" option, hit the "write" button on the app and everything has been good since.

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changeissimple   10 W

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Re: QS 205 experts needed

Post by changeissimple » Aug 10 2018 11:56am

i am wondering about the Key Switch connections. I am going blue from throttle directly to pink 7. But in the manual it shows it also diverting off to the positive side of the battery as well. Take a look at this diagram and let me know what i should do, because the controller is not turning on at all. https://photos.app.goo.gl/3cJEmyRQoPnjhxht5

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