Help me Obi-wan

Hello.

I've been lurking for awhile but feel the need to each out for some help as I am feeling overwhelmed and am not trusting my judgment right now.

A car hit me when I was on the e-bike I built from a kit. I'm mostly OK and the only thing that really broke on the bike was the throttle.

But when I tried replacing the throttle I think the throttle sense wire for the controller managed to make a connection with the voltage sense wire. I think the controller is fried.

My first question is how can I test the controller?

Second, how can I test the throttle?

Third, what should I replace the controller with? (will provide more details)

Forth, any recommendations on a throttle? I like just having an on/off switch (no key) and voltage display.

Details...

The kit I got is the JAXPETY 36V 500W Electric Bicycle Cycle 26" E Bike Front Wheel Ebike Hub Motor Conversion Kit Hub Motor Wheel on Amazon.

I started with a 36V Li-Ion battery but upgraded to 48v and the kit seemed to handle it.

In finding a replacement controller I'd like a little more power and if possible regenerative breaking. I live in Santa Barbara, CA and there are a lot of hills. I'm going through break pads way to fast.

I am a full time student at Santa Barbara City College and sharing a room to make ends meet. Money is tight and I am trying to get my commuter bike back up and running as fast and cheaply as possible.

I'm hoping to get some input before trying to buy some parts on Amazon.

Thanks for any advice,
Carl


View attachment 1

We are glad you are ok! Hopefully you were not hit and run, California is a cesspool for hitting bicyclists and motorcyclists and then running home to buff out the damage before they get caught

We hope you and your bike have a full recovery!

http://www.ebikes.ca/learn/troubleshooting.html

markz said:

http://www.ebikes.ca/learn/troubleshooting.html

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Thanks.

I tired something like the guide for Throttle Testing said to do and was getting 0v from my replacement throttler so I am think I burnt out the throttle and the controller.

I tried using the hall sensor from the smashed throttle and could not get it to work.

Best to have a few spares!

markz said:

Best to have a few spares!

Click to expand...

I totally agree. It is also nice to eat.

SBCC is on the other side of the valley. I get to ride up hill to school and home!



But its nice when the e-bike works. Now, not so much.

SportBiker said:

SBCC is on the other side of the valley. I get to ride up hill to school and home!

Click to expand...

That's a potential issue for using regen. Regen works by putting a voltage higher than the battery voltage across it to create a current, which it pulls from the motor, creating braking.

There's two scenarios that could cause you problems with that:

The first is if your BMS has separate charge and discharge ports; this is common. If so, then there's no way for the BMS to protect against overcharge during regen; it can't turn off the input even if teh voltage on cells is way higher than it's supposed to be.

If the battery is already fully charged, and you're going downhill using the regen braking, for long enough, you can overcharge the battery and damage it. I don't know how long would be too long for your system.

The second is if your BMS has the same port for charge and discharge. If so, it can protect against overhcarge from regen as well as the regular charger.

In this case, with a full battery, applying regen for long enough would bring up the voltage high enough for the BMS to shut down the input and output of teh battery, so the system is no longer powered at all. Suddenly you don't have any braking, and you don't have any motor power either, until the BMS detects the voltage dropping far enough on cells to turn the output/input back on. Could take seconds, or minutes, or longer.


If it's not fully charged, and you've used enough capacity so taht the regen doesnt' push it over the limit, none of those problems occur.

But figuring out exactly how much difference you need requires a wattmeter, so you can see how much Ah or Wh you regen back going down the hill, and then monitor charging so you don't put all of that back in, or set teh charger voltage just a bit lower than full...but then the pack may not balance itself. So the long downhill starting off on a trip can make things complex.

SportBiker said:

I tired something like the guide for Throttle Testing said to do and was getting 0v from my replacement throttler so I am think I burnt out the throttle and the controller.

Click to expand...

Were you getting 5v from the controller's red wires? If not, then the controller isn't turning on.

If you had a switch on teh throttle that previously switched full voltage to the controller, you'd need to connect those wires together at the controller to power it on. Then it will output 5v, unless it's damaged.

You can use 3 AA or AAA batteries in series to test a throttle, too, in place of the controller voltage. 4.5v is enough to run them.

Hey sportbiker... I live in SB and am down in the funk zone of you can't get it running from here...

amberwolf said:

Were you getting 5v from the controller's red wires? If not, then the controller isn't turning on.

Click to expand...

Yes, I get 5v from the controller, but that is about it.

Could the controller provide the 5v but not respond to throttle input if the throttle was shorted to 48v?

Voltron said:

Hey sportbiker... I live in SB and am down in the funk zone of you can't get it running from here...

Click to expand...

Down in the funk zone?

amberwolf said:

That's a potential issue for using regen. Regen works by putting a voltage higher than the battery voltage across it to create a current, which it pulls from the motor, creating braking.

There's two scenarios that could cause you problems with that:

The first is if your BMS has separate charge and discharge ports; this is common. If so, then there's no way for the BMS to protect against overcharge during regen; it can't turn off the input even if teh voltage on cells is way higher than it's supposed to be.

Click to expand...

Yes, my battery has two ports. I am very interested in finding out how many watts the regen would produce going down hill.

I have to get it working, then I can start some experiments. I consider myself fairly handy tools and electronics.

I'll have some money to play with after the first week of Fall classes. I'm trying to get some quick paying work so I can get back in the road with the e-bike.

SportBiker said:

I totally agree. It is also nice to eat.

Click to expand...

Yup food over ebike parts.

SportBiker said:

Yes, I get 5v from the controller, but that is about it.

Click to expand...

With 5 vdc input from the controller (red wire) and a good ground (black wire) the throttle should put out .8 to 4.2 vdc on the green wire depending on throttle position.

This is my test setup. I hope the photos convey what is going on.


I am getting 5v from the controller.

I have ground and +5v attached to the hall sensor.

The green to white wire is hall to controller throttle input.

The meter is attached to +5v and hall out (not the ground going to the hall)

Rolling the throttle will cause a very brief drop to 4.9v but there is no real change in the output like i'd expect.

So fried hall sensor?

The yellow wires are just voltage sense.

The blue wire is the common leg from the two position switch in the throttle and is connected to battery+.

The two positions of the switch are tied together and go to the 'power on' / 'lock' lead of the controller.

The three phase and motor hall wires go off in the back on the right side.

The battery power is coming in from above on the left.

To check sensor output, you need to have meter black lead on battery negative black wire. And red probe on green wire.

TommyCat said:

To check sensor output, you need to have meter black lead on battery negative black wire. And red probe on green wire.

Click to expand...

Just did that.

Without the controller connected 0v

With the controller connected 5v.

I think I managed to burn both the controller and hall sensor.

Black meter probe on black wire, red meter lead on green...

If you've done the test with the black meter lead (common) on the ground wire of the system (usually black, but not always), and then the red meter lead (+V) on the throttle's signal out wire (probably the green one, but not necessarily), then you should get a voltage that varies from 0.8-0.9v for no throttle use, up to around 4-4.5v for full throttle.

If it has 0V output at any time, then either the throttle wire is broken or the throttle hall is fried. Minimum is usually 0.8-0.9v for a throttle hall. (motor halls are a different kind).


The controller shouldn't have 5V on it's throttle signal line--there should be an internal pulldown to 0V. Could you possibly have the wrong controller signal wire? May be marked SP or SPD, or TH(rottle), etc. If you have the right wire, then something is definitely wrong in there.


If you are measuring with the meter red (+V in) on the positive (5v) line (which is probably what the red wire is in the pic you show here):
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=238464&t=1
Then you actually have 0V on the controller throttle signal input line, which is completley normal, and close to 5v on the throttle output line, which is not normal.

If the voltage doesn't vary on the throttle signal, regardless of which way you measure it, then something is wrong in there.


If you can get the throttle apart and back together correctly (sometimes very difficult), you can buy just the hall sensor; shipping costs more than the part. Honeywell SS49x series is what's usually used in there, or some clone thereof. May be marked on the face of the sensor.

markz said:

Yup food over ebike parts.

Click to expand...

I think y'all might be on the wrong forum. :lol:

TommyCat said:

Black meter probe on black wire, red meter lead on green...

Click to expand...

Sorry, long day. And the computer is in another room.



Same thing.

I think I need a new controller and throttle.

Unless anyone has an other ideas for things to check?

Are the hall sensor wire connections good? And reinsulated. No shorts...And the wires in the harness good? If so I'd say the sensor is bad. Late here too... Back tomorrow.

If you get zero volts measuring from the ground to the throttle signal out, AND you get zero volts measuring from the 5V to the throttle out, then either the 5V has no voltage on it, or the ground has 5V on it, or the throttle wire itself is actually an open circuit.

There can't be 5V on the red wire, ground on the black wire, and get 0V measuring both ways, if the throttle hall has any electrical connection on it's output signal.

markz said:

SportBiker said:

I totally agree. It is also nice to eat.

Click to expand...

Yup food over ebike parts.

Click to expand...

Eat more economically and get both. Plus Ebike parts pay for themselves in savings quickly if you use it for transportation.

Sent a pm...

I would suggest disconnect the throttle signal wire and measure the throttle input going to the controller. This should be zero volts.
If not, controller is likely bad. Otherwise, from what I've seen it just seems like the throttle is bad. Try a new throttle first. As long as the 5v is there and the signal wire isn't getting pulled up inside the controller, the throttle won't be damaged.

If you get a new throttle and it still doesn't work, then go for a controller.

There are lots of similar throttles out there on eBay
Here is one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-48V-E-Bike-Handlebar-Electric-Scooter-Bike-LED-Throttle-Grip-Digital-Meter/253659718259?hash=item3b0f4c2273%3Ag%3A2BUAAOSwwwRbD8oY&LH_PrefLoc=1&_sacat=0&_nkw=scooter+throttle+digital+meter&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0

note, seller is close to you so shipping will be fast.