Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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wturber   100 kW

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by wturber » Aug 09 2018 9:19pm

billvon wrote:
Aug 09 2018 4:09pm
But nowadays it doesn't really matter what the outcome is - it's how you spin it. There are some good effects from tariffs, after all; the US steel industry will likely benefit in some ways even if tariffs harm the industry as a whole. As long as you take credit for those good effects and find someone else to blame for the bad ones, tariffs can be an effective political tool, at least for a while.
Yes, tariffs always have the potential to be an effective political tool. The same is true of wars.
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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by georgefromvt » Aug 24 2018 7:41pm

Radpower increasing prices by $200 thanks to the tariffs. My local bike shop also reported increase in almost all bike parts d/t the tariffs. Prices will only affect American buyers not Canadians. https://www.radpowerbikes.com/pages/rad ... nouncement


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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by wturber » Aug 24 2018 8:15pm

georgefromvt wrote:
Aug 24 2018 7:45pm
Voice your concern. https://peopleforbikes.org/say-no-bike-tariffs/
If spitting into the wind makes you happy, then go ahead.

Also, the kind of narrow view expressed in the petition is so typical of U.S. (all?) politics. There's a much broader issue with over 1097 product categories being affected. The notion of focusing on bicycles as the one item out of 1097 seems rather silly. The bigger issue is that tariffs (and trade wars) are almost always pretty bad ideas.

But I suppose the online form makes People for Bikes appear to be doing something important. Yeah team!<sarcasm>
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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by LockH » Aug 24 2018 8:31pm

Hehe... "Yes, tariffs always have the potential to be an effective political tool. The same is true of wars." ... is this not "golden"? :wink:
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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by MadRhino » Aug 24 2018 8:59pm

At least, coal is gonna be cheaper. :twisted:
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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by ScooterMan101 » Aug 27 2018 10:25am

China imports allot of Coal from the U.S.
But would China put a tariff on Coal imported from the U.S. ?
it is not in their interest to do so.

" There is also no current suggestion that China would retaliate against the United States by targeting coal, should Trump accept the recommendation of the U.S. Commerce Department for a slew of curbs and tariffs on steel and aluminium imports from a variety of exporting countries. "

^ And now President Trump has put into effect , the recommendation of the U.S. Commerce Department for a tariff on Cheep, Direct Bought E-Bikes, Cheep E-Bikes that some people sell over the internet , and a few store fronts, and E-Bike Motors from China .


Here is another quote from the article.
" China bought 5.95 million tonnes of U.S. coal last year, ( 2017 ) more than double the 2.8 million of the prior year, while India remained the top Asian destination, with imports of 13 million tonnes, up from 8.7 million in 2016. "

Here is an article from early this year ...

https://www.reuters.com/article/column- ... SL4N1QA18T

So if China , and , India increases their demand for use of American Coal, the price of Coal could go Up , not down.


MadRhino wrote:
Aug 24 2018 8:59pm
At least, coal is gonna be cheaper. :twisted:
Last edited by ScooterMan101 on Aug 27 2018 10:49am, edited 6 times in total.
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https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by ScooterMan101 » Aug 27 2018 10:25am

ScooterMan101 wrote:
Aug 27 2018 10:25am

E.S. is double posting , and/or I clicked on the quote icon instead of the edit icon, in any case I have edited this one since it had the same wording as the above post .
Last edited by ScooterMan101 on Aug 27 2018 10:33am, edited 2 times in total.
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by ScooterMan101 » Aug 27 2018 10:28am

Over the next couple of days I will check with the local bike shops to see what , if any , effect the tariff will have on their business.
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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US Tariffs on Chinese Bicycles & Parts Will Begin Next Week

Post by dirt huffer » Sep 19 2018 10:12am

Probably a double post but get your stuff ordered now before the end of the year! :(
". Tariffs take effect this coming Monday, September 27, beginning at ten percent and increasing to 25 percent January 1, 2019. "
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/tariffs-o ... -week.html

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by LockH » Sep 19 2018 12:01pm

See also ES thread US Smuggling of Chinese Bicycles & Parts Will Begin Next Week...
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
(Ebikers Anonymous - Where we're all miserable failures, but the parties are hilarious...)

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by rumme » Sep 20 2018 11:46am

Does this mean, the already overpriced ebikes that use BOSH mid drives and sell for $6000 will now cost $7500 ?

Good thing I would never buy em at $6000 let alone $7500.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by MadRhino » Sep 20 2018 12:02pm

Ebikes built with Bosh drives are not made in China, neither the components that they are usually equipped with. Batteries, maybe...

It is the average cheap ebikes that will cost more, not enough to discourage buyers. Yet, there are so many things made in China, that American companies are using to make their products, that a lot of things will cost more at the end. But, the western world can afford paying the extra, while the average Chinese consumer will not be able to buy American products anymore. So, this trade war strategy will only make the American commercial deficit bigger.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by rumme » Sep 20 2018 1:46pm

MadRhino wrote:
Sep 20 2018 12:02pm
Ebikes built with Bosh drives are not made in China, neither the components that they are usually equipped with. Batteries, maybe...

It is the average cheap ebikes that will cost more, not enough to discourage buyers. Yet, there are so many things made in China, that American companies are using to make their products, that a lot of things will cost more at the end. But, the western world can afford paying the extra, while the average Chinese consumer will not be able to buy American products anymore. So, this trade war strategy will only make the American commercial deficit bigger.
Its all smoke and mirrors anyways. We are told we have more money due to tax decreases , then inflation goes nuts and tariffs add to the inflation.

As far as the BOSH mid drive ebikes, I would never pay $5000 or more for one of their ebikes. Ive got a stealth bomber copy, made with ALL Chinese ebiker parts and I only spent $3000 on it . Ive been riding it for about a year and its great. I have the controller set for a top speed around 45 mph and good torque. The reality is this, if I can get a decent performing item, for a great price from overseas , then Ill often buy it . This is just human nature and common sense. Im not gonna spend $5000 on a ebike with American made parts, when I can spend $3000 for a ebike with foreign made parts, and thata cheaper ebike performs as well or better then the American made one. Patriotism doesnt mean fiscal stupidity. :lol:

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by DRMousseau » Sep 20 2018 2:10pm

I'd bet that you WOULD pay that $5000,..... IF, you had an income that allowed you to!!! Nobody wants something cheap, if they can afford otherwise. And many would pay extra for convenience too,.... IF, they can afford to do so. Patriotism is relative to home and family. Even if you personally worked at the Bosh factory in your own home town and got a 20% discount, with above average income.... you would still only buy from Bosh if you could afford to do so, otherwise, your still jus gonna buy that $3000 Chinese special!!!

I believe the last motor I ordered direct from China a couple years ago, was subject to a 6% tariff that was included in those "high shipping costs", so often complained of. Many imports are subject to tariffs already and have been for decades,... one of the many reasons I am no longer a craftsman of leather items and accessories (rather shocking that in a country that produces so much beef and pork for domestic and export, and yet you could count the domestic tanneries on one hand with fingers missing!). The high shipping costs of imports in general, offsets high tariffs on many items while still keeping a low overall expense with few exceptions. "Most folks will hardly notice!",.... sound familiar. :roll: Yes,... your high shipping costs helps pay tariffs on luxury items you probably can't afford!

While many are watching for the effects of tariffs on technology (motors, controllers, electronics, etc.), you likely haven't noticed other things, like STEEL!!!! I'm a bit ticked at domestic steel that has bitched about low cost imports, and now with high tariffs they raise their domestic prices, making ALL steel more expensive,... domestic or not!!! And you know damn well these prices for both will never come back down with or without tariffs!!! "Trade wars are easy to win!",... sound familiar again. Yup,... the winners are domestic and foreign corporations, and consumers seldom see any great slice of that pie!!! As a corporate employee,... you can only hope to see some scraps of the crust to enjoy.

Yes, prices of e-bikes WILL rise,.... with or without tariffs. 25%??? Maybe,... and when all has ended, we might see prices drop 10-15%!!! Which is 10-15% higher than WITHOUT this tariff battle!!!

But WTH!!! Average income has increased, right??? :? Well, for China anyways.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by rumme » Sep 20 2018 2:28pm

DRMousseau wrote:
Sep 20 2018 2:10pm
I'd bet that you WOULD pay that $5000,..... IF, you had an income that allowed you to!!!
You would lose your bet. I assure you , I have a income that can easily afford a $5000 ebike. No need to spend that when I was able to get all the performance I need, for $3000.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by donn » Sep 20 2018 2:31pm

rumme wrote:
Sep 20 2018 1:46pm
Patriotism doesnt mean fiscal stupidity.
Arguably, patriotism does mean stupidity, but that's a fairly narrow view of why someone might pay more for stuff that isn't made in China. I bought a battery from Chicago Electric Bicycles, made in Chicago, IL, and in general I'll go to some lengths to find and pay for stuff that's made in the US - or Canada, Mexico, Italy, Taiwan ... Often this means I get superior quality. Sometimes it means I decide to not buy something I don't really need right now, which is another way to win. But the main thing is, how can it not mean trouble, for the rest of the world to let the Chinese make everything?

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by rumme » Sep 20 2018 2:37pm

donn wrote:
Sep 20 2018 2:31pm
rumme wrote:
Sep 20 2018 1:46pm
Patriotism doesnt mean fiscal stupidity.
Arguably, patriotism does mean stupidity, but that's a fairly narrow view of why someone might pay more for stuff that isn't made in China. I bought a battery from Chicago Electric Bicycles, made in Chicago, IL, and in general I'll go to some lengths to find and pay for stuff that's made in the US - or Canada, Mexico, Italy, Taiwan ... Often this means I get superior quality. Sometimes it means I decide to not buy something I don't really need right now, which is another way to win. But the main thing is, how can it not mean trouble, for the rest of the world to let the Chinese make everything?
China isn t making everything . Korea, Japan, Russia, Israel , Mexico and many other nations make things, along with the U,.S.

My point about the BOSH $5000 ebikes, WAS SIMPLE. I aint gonna spend $5000 on a ebike { even though I can afford to} , when I can get another ebike for $3000, that gives me the performance I need AND, may give better performance { in some ways{ then the $5000 bosch ebike system....For example, top speed on my stealth bomber clone, is over 50 mph . I doubt a $5000 bosh ebike can do that. My ebike also has a 72 volt - 28.4 AH battery , I doubt Bosh provides that kind of voltage and capacity on their $5000 ebikes.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by Chalo » Sep 20 2018 3:20pm

The United States still makes lots of high tech weapons, genetically modified corn and soybeans, and new kinds of scams. These things are in demand worldwide.

The whole point of trade is to let different places do what they're best and most profitable at doing. Slapping a 25% surcharge on Chinese goods is not going to make American industry any better or more efficient at making stuff. They'll just charge more, and executives and capitalists will pocket the difference.

The rest of us take a pay cut, because things cost more but we don't get paid any better.
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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by wturber » Sep 20 2018 3:33pm

Chalo wrote:
Sep 20 2018 3:20pm
The United States still makes lots of high tech weapons, genetically modified corn and soybeans, and new kinds of scams. These things are in demand worldwide.

The whole point of trade is to let different places do what they're best and most profitable at doing. Slapping a 25% surcharge on Chinese goods is not going to make American industry any better or more efficient at making stuff. They'll just charge more, and executives and capitalists will pocket the difference.

The rest of us take a pay cut, because things cost more but we don't get paid any better.
Well, it is an import TAX. So we know where a bunch of the money goes given that even with the tariffs, many of the Chinese products are still cheaper. Basically, the government is coercing you into buying from less preferred sources and/or sticking its hand into your pocket. It is fundamentally both a restriction of personal liberties and a bit of "larceny" - which aren't exactly good things.

That said, if the tactic manages to get us to an end result of fewer overall import tariffs on both sides, that would be a good thing. I'm trying to be hopeful that this is the end goal. But I'm not exactly holding my breath that it will work.
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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by spinningmagnets » Sep 20 2018 3:41pm

It's still illegal for US citizens to buy Cuban cigars. I'm told by a seemingly reliable source that about half the cigars that come into the US from the Dominican Republic are actually made in Cuba.

In the 1970's, when Russia invaded Afghanistan, president blocked the sale of US wheat to Russia in protest (*Russia had a very bad crop for wheat that year). Instead of Russia giving-in, Argentina bought our excess wheat, marked up the price, and resold it to Russia.

The cargo-ships full of US wheat never touched Argentina. Easiest money Argentina ever made...just sign here.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by WoodlandHills » Sep 20 2018 4:21pm

I just had an order of Chinese made LED bulbs shipped from Canada and was charged 25% tariff and a $38 inspection fee on a $166 order. A previous shipment 3 weeks ago had no extra fees.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by WoodlandHills » Sep 20 2018 4:23pm

donn wrote:
Sep 20 2018 2:31pm
rumme wrote:
Sep 20 2018 1:46pm
Patriotism doesnt mean fiscal stupidity.
Arguably, patriotism does mean stupidity, but that's a fairly narrow view of why someone might pay more for stuff that isn't made in China. I bought a battery from Chicago Electric Bicycles, made in Chicago, IL, and in general I'll go to some lengths to find and pay for stuff that's made in the US - or Canada, Mexico, Italy, Taiwan ... Often this means I get superior quality. Sometimes it means I decide to not buy something I don't really need right now, which is another way to win. But the main thing is, how can it not mean trouble, for the rest of the world to let the Chinese make everything?
Your battery might have been assembled in Chicago, but where were the cells manufactured?

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by billvon » Sep 20 2018 4:35pm

rumme wrote:
Sep 20 2018 1:46pm
Its all smoke and mirrors anyways. We are told we have more money due to tax decreases , then inflation goes nuts and tariffs add to the inflation.
Hey, I'll have you know that a fair number of CEO's can buy much nicer business jets now that those tax cuts are in place! So some people have more money.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tax-change ... 1536763868
--bill von

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by donn » Sep 20 2018 4:42pm

WoodlandHills wrote:
Sep 20 2018 4:23pm
Your battery might have been assembled in Chicago, but where were the cells manufactured?
Sure. It was assembled in Chicago, that's something. China is a place that's "good at" assembling batteries. They're "good at" making everything else, too - cheap labor under an oppressive totalitarian regime that's exporting its values to other parts of the world, working on poorly governed 3rd world countries to exploit their resources. My clothes, my tools, my musical instruments, my motor vehicles, etc. could all be made in China, though actually few if any actually were.

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