Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by MadRhino » Sep 20 2018 8:44pm

Trade war is just a gimmick to legitimate a tax raise that no one would forgive if it was not presented to them like that. The people will pay, the government will collect, simple fact.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by ScooterMan101 » Sep 20 2018 10:43pm

The so called " trade war " is not about raising taxes, it is all about achieving a more Fair and Equatable trade balance with China.



The U.S. trade deficit with China was $375 billion in 2017.

The trade deficit exists because U.S. exports to China were only $130 billion ... while imports from China were $506 billion.

The U.S. will achieve a more Fair and Equatable trade balance with China in the Future !
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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by rumme » Sep 20 2018 11:12pm

ScooterMan101 wrote:
Sep 20 2018 10:43pm
The so called " trade war " is not about raising taxes, it is all about achieving a more Fair and Equatable trade balance with China.


but the outcome of the trade war , is much higher prices to consumers. The tax cuts are meaningless, when the price of goods skyrocket, whether thru taxation or import tariffs driven by trade wars. In the end, us peons In society, always get the shaft...1 way or another.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by Chalo » Sep 20 2018 11:21pm

ScooterMan101 wrote:
Sep 20 2018 10:43pm
The U.S. will achieve a more Fair and Equatable trade balance with China in the Future !
Not a chance. Tariffs might reduce American imports from China, but they reduce Chinese imports from the USA much more. Remember that the same influences that make Chinese goods cheap here make American goods expensive there. Significant increases in cost are more significant when the goods are expensive than when the goods are cheap.

The only way that the USA will achieve a more balanced trade with China is for American industry and workers to get beaten down enough that their pay rates come into closer line with China's. So be very careful what you wish for.
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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by DRMousseau » Sep 20 2018 11:50pm

rumme wrote:
Sep 20 2018 2:28pm

You would lose your bet. I assure you , I have a income that can easily afford a $5000 ebike. No need to spend that when I was able to get all the performance I need, for $3000.
Then I would lose on much different principles. In various industries of services and products, I've always found the "truly elite rich" to be my favorite and easiest customers,... no mention of cost, price or value, "jus do it!" Those of restricted budgets never questioned cost, price or value either,.... they would do without or within their budget. But the remaining "middle class" (fast disappearing) were the worst! Many fancied themselves as elite "wannabe" and were indebted beyond all reasonable, yet wanted all they could for nothing or as near as possible, arguing I could do better because they really could not easily afford such, and claiming they could get the same at much less elsewhere,...... "Well, then go elsewhere!"

And so begins our venture, which began somewhere in the late '70s early '80s, and progressively worsened to the current "norm" of today. You'd think after nearly 50yrs, we'd summit to our arrogance and finally accept that NOTHING is gonna "trickle down",.... it begins at the bottom, and "trickles up" as it always has, to the benefit of all. Of course today that sounds a bit too "socialistic" for a capitalistic nation, excuse me,... a modern CORPORATIST nation!!!! Yet it has benefited China and many other nations jus as it had once benefited the states. Of course most of todays workforce wasn't present 50yrs ago and really knows no different.

We no longer shop locally in small businesses unless absolutely necessary, barely affording the economy of big box business, which is quickly fading to e-business preferences, as we shop for ANY value within our shrinking budgets and continually suppressed incomes!!!

While many countries see increasing avg. incomes (easy when starting with little or nothing, you can only go up!), many western nations are experiencing lower and lower avg incomes (both corrected over time, for value and inflation) that continues to fall without even noticing. Forcing higher costs with taxes and tariffs, benefits no one,... except corporates that jus raise prices while continuing to suppress wages to "offset" increasing PRICES and costs!!!! Sooner or later, it will all "trickle down", right? :roll:

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by ScooterMan101 » Sep 21 2018 12:56am

The Tax cuts give much more Dollars to the U.S. workers . Than the few items they buy that are made in China.
...
When you add up the items from China that that U.S. a worker will buy, compared to how much money one gets to keep from better tax rates.

Remember , the tariff's are on items from China,
I hardly buy anything made from there these days, many items are from Mexico, South America, Vietnam , Taiwan, etc.

And besides that , the U.S. worker/average citizen has been taxed too much by previous Politicians , finally we have a President that cares more about the average person and worker .





quote=rumme post_id=1412850 time=1537503155 user_id=18710]


but the outcome of the trade war , is much higher prices to consumers. The tax cuts are meaningless, when the price of goods skyrocket, whether thru taxation or import tariffs driven by trade wars. In the end, us peons In society, always get the shaft...1 way or another.
[/quote]
Last edited by ScooterMan101 on Sep 21 2018 1:40am, edited 1 time in total.
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by ScooterMan101 » Sep 21 2018 1:09am

Disagree,

For instance the Chinese people , want , to buy many items from the U.S. .
and
add to that the Chinese Government is creating policies that give more money for people there to spend on items , in order to get their GDP up.

Here is a quote from a article on China Economic Reforms ...
" The government will loosen price controls on water, electricity and natural resources. Companies in these industries can consolidate and become larger. But they must become profitable.
They will also be listed on China's stock market to hold them accountable. In return, they will pay 30 percent of earnings as dividends to the government. Proceeds will be used to fund social security programs by 2020. That allows the Chinese people to save less, spend more, and boost demand. "

In regards to American workers wages being beaten down , that is what was happening during the last 3 U.S. Presidents, it is different now ,
Now with President Trump Wages are going up, Business are having to pay workers more, that is being reported by every day people all over the Country .


And when we get better control of how many people enter this country across the border , all business will have less workers to exploit, so when that happens the U.S. workers will have even better job security and better longer lasting pay raises.



Chalo wrote:
Sep 20 2018 11:21pm
ScooterMan101 wrote:
Sep 20 2018 10:43pm
The U.S. will achieve a more Fair and Equatable trade balance with China in the Future !
Not a chance. Tariffs might reduce American imports from China, but they reduce Chinese imports from the USA much more. Remember that the same influences that make Chinese goods cheap here make American goods expensive there. Significant increases in cost are more significant when the goods are expensive than when the goods are cheap.

The only way that the USA will achieve a more balanced trade with China is for American industry and workers to get beaten down enough that their pay rates come into closer line with China's. So be very careful what you wish for.
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by Chalo » Sep 21 2018 2:03am

ScooterMan101 wrote:
Sep 21 2018 1:09am
Now with President Trump Wages are going up, Business are having to pay workers more, that is being reported by every day people all over the Country .
Is that so?

https://hrdailyadvisor.blr.com/2018/07/ ... e-q2-2018/

I know we're in the era of "alternative facts", where "truth isn't truth", but there are still people keeping track of the actual data. And the data do not support your assertions or those of your gangster president.
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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by ScooterMan101 » Sep 21 2018 2:14am

That article actually says that some sectors/jobs do have a increase, the tech sector.
Here they say two different things ...Bardaro: Our research shows wages for the average worker fell In tquarter over quarter and are only slightly up year over year
Interesting .
I have been seeing on the net ( youtube ) reports from every day people , that their wages have gone up and there is an increase in job openings. Now I do understand that the Dem's and Haters will want to not pay attention to that, they would rather put out articles that only list area's that are not doing so well.

BTW, the Current President is not a Gangster, the one that was, or to be more correct , learned how to do business from the Gangsters in Hot Springs , Ark. was first a Governor in Ark, , he was in office the President 18-24 years ago.

Read the book the Clinton Chronicles.


Chalo wrote:
Sep 21 2018 2:03am
ScooterMan101 wrote:
Sep 21 2018 1:09am
Now with President Trump Wages are going up, Business are having to pay workers more, that is being reported by every day people all over the Country .
Is that so?

https://hrdailyadvisor.blr.com/2018/07/ ... e-q2-2018/

I know we're in the era of "alternative facts", where "truth isn't truth", but there are still people keeping track of the actual data. And the data do not support your assertions or those of your gangster president.
Last edited by ScooterMan101 on Sep 21 2018 3:06am, edited 3 times in total.
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by ScooterMan101 » Sep 21 2018 2:24am

that article
talks mostly about inflation rising a slight bit more than wages ... because of the cost of Houses and Oil and health care costs.

Well that can or perhaps did happen in a state like California, but other states have much lower Housing and Gas Prices and lower health care costs. Remember that Health Care Costs are much more in places like California where there are Millions on Public Assistance.

It also talks about the tax cuts being done for " trickle down economics "
but that is not the real reason for the tax cuts, the tax cuts are there because over several decades taxes have risen far more than they should have. The tax cut is in reality the way to let the people know that they deserve lower taxes. Which is Entirely True !!

Here watch this ... you wonder why people are leaving California and coming to your City and Texas , here watch this video ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn1fxChSbYk
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by rumme » Sep 21 2018 8:55am

Chalo, I understand you lean to the left , but surely you dont think Trump is anymore of a gangsta then Obama or Clintons are ? I mean the Clintons have a very definitive list of associates that have been mysteriously killed when those associates threatened the Clintons nefarious schemes/ actions. Chalo, objectivity in life is very important , so lets not pretend Hillary is less of a gangsta then Trump may be or that Hillary would have been a better president at exposing corruptions in the swamp. I dont worship Trump , but I am confident hes doing many good things for the U.S., that Hillary would not have done and with Trump, we are getting a lot of exposure of the corruptions from the swamp, from both the republican and democratic ends.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by donn » Sep 21 2018 8:58am

Chalo wrote:
Sep 20 2018 11:21pm
The only way that the USA will achieve a more balanced trade with China is for American industry and workers to get beaten down enough that their pay rates come into closer line with China's. So be very careful what you wish for.
Well, there's that, and I believe the Chinese workers are meanwhile becoming more affluent and less tractable, so hopefully we won't have to go all the way to the bottom before it evens out.

But I wonder if there aren't other ways that we could help narrow the difference. It isn't all just wage disparities, they also have an "industrial plant" advantage - it's easier to make a finished product there because all components are very available, the tooling, the factory space, the engineering. Before we can get to the market with our own production, that we could in theory protect with tariffs, we have to rebuild our industrial base, and we probably have to do it the way they did, with a lot of government support. If we don't do it, they will - like the Japanese car firms have done, the Chinese will come over when our labor force is cheap and tractable enough, and start employing us in their offshore factories.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by rumme » Sep 21 2018 9:00am

Chalo, I understand you lean to the left , but surely you dont think Trump is anymore of a gangsta then Obama or Clintons are ? I mean the Clintons have a very definitive list of associates that have been mysteriously killed when those associates threatened the Clintons nefarious schemes/ actions. Chalo, objectivity in life is very important , so lets not pretend Hillary is less of a gangsta then Trump may be or that Hillary would have been a better president at exposing corruptions in the swamp. I dont worship Trump , but I am confident hes doing many good things for the U.S., that Hillary would not have done and with Trump, we are getting a lot of exposure of the corruptions from the swamp, from both the republican and democratic ends.

On another note, I am good friends with 5 business owners. All 5 of them told me they havent been this busy with work, for decades. They actually are getting so much business, they are booked up for months in advance. Trump may be the very first true business man we have had as president in decades. It seems to me that the USA is profiting from that...stocks up to all time highs and holding consistently, jobs are coming back to the U.S....and smaller business owners have more work then they can handle for the first time in years. I know this is true, because I talk to business owners . I dont rely on biased polls for much of my info, because I know it cannot be trusted.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by slacker » Sep 21 2018 9:40am

rumme, well said. kuddos to you sir.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by rumme » Sep 21 2018 11:41am

slacker wrote:
Sep 21 2018 9:40am
rumme, well said. kuddos to you sir.
Yeah, these looney birds that think socialism will create a utopian world, are truly deranged people. I dont understand why, the socialists that live in America, dont just leave American, and move to a shithole socialist nation overseas. Socialism CRIPPLES a society, because it takes away the main incentives for humans to work, learn and better their lives. They become lazy, spoiled socialist robots. NOW...if we could figure out a way, to change the faulty character traits of 7 billion humans , so they would decide to spend all that extra time they have on their hands, from living a socialist lifestyle, to actually HELP others and improve the planet, then socialism may be a good idea. But that aint gonna happen. Humans are a very faulty species...in that if you give them free things, they then want MORE free things , and they will always compare the free things they are given, to others, and say ...WELL THAT PERSON GOT MORE FREE THINGS THEN ME...AND THATS NOT FAIR...SO I WANT EVEN MORE FREE THINGS......this is what we call the " entitlement society" and unfortunately, this is the mindset of many younger people in America. This is not a good thing...trust me.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by rumme » Sep 21 2018 11:48am

slacker wrote:
Sep 21 2018 9:40am
rumme, well said. kuddos to you sir.
You see, the big difference with me, is I do my best to remain objective, and spot the lies coming from all sides.

Bush was a lying maggot and I saw that invading other nations to spread " freedom and democracy" was just a republican driven lie.....just like I see the lies coming from demcorats like Bernie Sanders or Hillary , where they suggest socialism is the best option, and will solve our problems.....just like when AL GORE suggested all the polar ice caps would be melted by 2014 , due to global warming....You see, I spot the lies from both sides of the aile, and criticize it....People like CHALO, will not do that, because they play the corrupt , sick game of political partisanship. Its kinda sad, because Chalo seems like a intelligent guy, but he lets politics brainwash him and make him non objective. He embraces the lies from the democratic end of things, because it suits his agendas and his hatred of everything republican.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by donn » Sep 21 2018 11:56am

I imagine our friends who are reading this from those "socialist" countries are having a good laugh here, reading about how we're concerned for their crippled societies. People who are interested in these matters might think about evaluating different societies by tangible measures, like infant mortality for example. Not all that directly relevant to electric bicycles, though.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by rumme » Sep 21 2018 11:58am

donn wrote:
Sep 21 2018 11:56am
I imagine our friends who are reading this from those "socialist" countries are having a good laugh here, reading about how we're concerned for their crippled societies. People who are interested in these matters might think about evaluating different societies by tangible measures, like infant mortality for example. Not all that directly relevant to electric bicycles, though.
Im concerned for my American society. If other nations wish to enforce socialism, thats up to the people in their societies to allow it or stop it. My main point is simple. Socialism does NOT result in some type of utopian world, where humans become better people. Socialism does not end racism, discrimination, social injustice, greed, corruptions , etc...The govts in socialist nations , are just as corrupt or MORE corrupt then the govt in the U.S.

Socialism cripples people , because it takes away incentives, which results in people having less discipline, drive, will power or desire to do better. The socialism utopia does not exist and would NEVER work well in world of 7 billion humans.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by Chalo » Sep 21 2018 1:51pm

First world democratic socialist societies are the best places to live. Scandinavia and Holland, for example, have measurably, observably better quality of life and take better care of their people than the USA does. This isn't opinion; it's fact. They also ride bikes more, despite having shitty climates for it.

There are racist jerks in those places, too, but with any luck, they will never come to power.
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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by rumme » Sep 21 2018 2:28pm

Chalo wrote:
Sep 21 2018 1:51pm
First world democratic socialist societies are the best places to live. Scandinavia and Holland, for example, have measurably, observably better quality of life and take better care of their people than the USA does. This isn't opinion; it's fact. They also ride bikes more, despite having shitty climates for it.

There are racist jerks in those places, too, but with any luck, they will never come to power.
For all its faults, America is still a great place to live in {, unless you reside in a socialist style shithole state like Chicago} . This is proven by the millions of immigrants who try to come here, year after year. Anyone in America, that is willing to work , can find work and make their way thru life . To many people in America are embracing the ideas that they can make terrible fiscal decisions in their life, have numerous children , be lazy , but they should be given enough govt freebies to live a comfortable life. This type of entitlement mindset that is taking over the younger generation in America, is very dangerous, wrong and destructive. In the game of life, you should be rewarded for the good decisions you make and punished for the bad ones, this is called learning . Socialism takes to much of that learning aspect out of the equations, and you are left with a society that thinks their entire existence, should be paid for by other entities. Its a very sick, twisted and arrogant way of thinking.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by donn » Sep 21 2018 3:17pm

You're welcome to your American way of life fairy tales, but for me, when you refer to other places as "shitholes", it says more about you than about them.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by rumme » Sep 21 2018 3:31pm

donn wrote:
Sep 21 2018 3:17pm
You're welcome to your American way of life fairy tales, but for me, when you refer to other places as "shitholes", it says more about you than about them.
Boring response. Tell ya what, you move to inner city Chicago, then tell us how nice it is. lol. :wink: I dont feel the need to sugarcoat the reality of it all.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by WoodlandHills » Sep 21 2018 3:38pm

If decent free healthcare for all, free college tuition, living wages for workers and progressive income taxes are socialism then sign me up! Seriously, no wonder young people do not see anything wrong with socialism when a conservative healthcare plan like Obamacare is decried as socialism by the Three Dolts on a Divan. The general feeling amongst our youth is that if that stuff is really Socialism then Socialism is not bad at all.

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by rumme » Sep 21 2018 3:48pm

WoodlandHills wrote:
Sep 21 2018 3:38pm
If decent free healthcare for all, free college tuition, living wages for workers and progressive income taxes are socialism then sign me up! Seriously, no wonder young people do not see anything wrong with socialism when a conservative healthcare plan like Obamacare is decried as socialism by the Three Dolts on a Divan. The general feeling amongst our youth is that if that stuff is really Socialism then Socialism is not bad at all.
I think the main question is this. Can total socialism, amongst 7 billion humans, really be sustainable and does it result in a :

better society
smarter society
more appreciative society
more productive society

I doubt it does, and then you must evaluate how many socialist places, may give you freebies from the govt, but they take away many other freedoms which are more important to have { freedom of speech, opinions, criticisms of govt / corrupt policies, freedom to bear arms, etc} .

To put it bluntly, THERE IS NO " FREE LUNCH" . If they give you something, then they almost always take something else away. Kinda like the sick idealogy of " we offer your protection, if you give up your freedoms" .

In the end, its all one sick , mega social experiment..all of it . We are the guinea pigs, and the best each of us can do, is to try and be the guinea pig that is " least" experiemented upon. Turning off the TV set, is a good start, because its the #1 tool used by TPTB to lie to us, divide us, manipulate us and confuse us. I regard TV as the most effective passive weapon used by TPTB for the last 80 years or so .

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Re: Ebike prices expected to rise? 25% tariffs.

Post by rumme » Sep 21 2018 3:57pm

For people In the U.S that wish to try and " force" the socialism way of life on others, I say, shame on you. You wannabe socialists in America, have a few options to make your socialist dream come true. One of them is for you te relocate to a socialist style state in the U.S. Another is for you to move to another country that has socialism . Another is for you to take a job at age 18, where you can work for 20 years, get a decent paycheck, then retire at age 38, and draw a monthly retirement check from your job, without even working there any more, which of course is a form of socialism { law enforcement, military, firefighter, etc } . How dare you try and force your socialist agendas upon everyone in America , just to suit your own selfish, lazy agendas.


Its funny, but you read the things these socialists, say, and how they act like they are the ones who dislike being forced to do certain things, then they turn around and want to force their socialist agendas upon everyone else. Oh ,the irony.

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