Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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wturber   100 kW

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by wturber » Aug 17 2018 8:26pm

Philaphlous wrote:
Aug 17 2018 7:47pm
Yea it was kinda nuts earlier this week when some dude flew past me with out of state plates and I was Goin 33mph and he musta been going at least 45...in a 25. Your asking for bad things...

I'm hoping if all goes well to get at modding my controller this weekend. We shall see!
I'm less concerned about how fast cars that pass me are going and more concerned with whether they pass with at least three (preferably more) feet of clearance.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by amberwolf » Aug 17 2018 11:48pm

wturber wrote:
Aug 17 2018 8:26pm


I'm less concerned about how fast cars that pass me are going and more concerned with whether they pass with at least three (preferably more) feet of clearance.
This can help:

https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/v ... ar#p550771

:)

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by Philaphlous » Aug 18 2018 10:07am

Definitely not going to be able to mod the controller this weekend... I can't get at the shunts very well with just taking off the side of the controller...so I'll need to disassemble the entire thing... I'll only do that when I'm ready to rebuild my battery box since the controller is bolted into the box and frame right now.

So according to some measurements, the 9C clone that I've got has a 30mm stator.... the edge to edge area where the spokes hookup are 1.375ish" between which best I can find is 35mm which translates to a 30mm stator....with the 30mm stator it looks like the motor can support upto 2000w~?

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by wturber » Aug 18 2018 3:27pm

amberwolf wrote:
Aug 17 2018 11:48pm
wturber wrote:
Aug 17 2018 8:26pm


I'm less concerned about how fast cars that pass me are going and more concerned with whether they pass with at least three (preferably more) feet of clearance.
This can help:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37813&p=550771&hili ... ar#p550771

:)
If it came to that, I'd find a different route or stop riding.
As it is, Scottsdale drivers are about 99.8% super good about passing with good margin. But those 0.02% are still there.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by wturber » Aug 18 2018 4:30pm

Philaphlous wrote:
Aug 18 2018 10:07am

So according to some measurements, the 9C clone that I've got has a 30mm stator.... the edge to edge area where the spokes hookup are 1.375ish" between which best I can find is 35mm which translates to a 30mm stator....with the 30mm stator it looks like the motor can support upto 2000w~?
Probably. The main issue is usually overheating. So add some Statorade® for added cooling. That should give you a bit more room to play with power.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by amberwolf » Aug 18 2018 11:30pm

The stator is just the part inside the motor with the metal laminations, where the windings are. It's probably only 28mm, if it's a common 9C/clone type. That's the reason for the common designation 2807 for a 7-turn, or 2810 for a 10-turn, etc.

The magnets may be wider or narrower than that; whatever the narrowest of the two (stator or magnets) is the effective "width" of the motor, as far as torque production goes (or passing heat using Statorade).


Most of these motors are easily capable of 1000-1500w, as long as they're doing that at a fast enough RPM to be in their efficient zone for the voltage they're being run at. If bogged down at those power levels, they'll overheat and burn up eventually. (see http://ebikes.ca/simulator )

You can probably even run bursts of 2000w+, but it might not run all day that way.

Higher power...depends. At some point, you run into the point at which more current thru the windings just creates heat (saturation). It's different for each motor design and winding count.

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by MadRhino » Aug 19 2018 7:16am

It is amazing how much power a DD hub can survive for short bursts in acceleration. About 10 times the continuous power rating. :twisted:
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by Philaphlous » Aug 19 2018 9:18am

Well I did a nice little trek this morning. Biked the entire natl mall and past some other places... It says my entire route to work is 13.7mi 1 way. I went 12.6mi today round trip and that got me down to 50V even from 54.5V... Pretty good I'd say! It's crazy how far 6.3mi is in the middle of a city like DC...I went from 1 side of the city to the other...

At one point about 5/8ths through my trek my throttle started skipping out...I was like 'ohhh shhhh".... but turns out, the deans connector I use for my battery just came unplugged from the controller... QUick and easy fix! Saved me because pedaling an ebike anywhere with no assistance would be brutal!

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by MadRhino » Aug 19 2018 9:32am

Yep. Mileage in city stop and go is like 3 times the same distance on a coutry road, because in actual time riding, it is. :wink:

Secure all your connectors. A failure on the way to work is three times the hassle too. 5 times if under the rain.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by Philaphlous » Aug 19 2018 9:46am

Just went to get back on the bike... Flat tire. Ugh... Doesn't look like any damage or I ran over something so I'm guessing maybe either the stem or puncture from a spoke going over a bump? Good thing I've got 2 extra tubes on standby...

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by wturber » Aug 19 2018 9:54am

Philaphlous wrote:
Aug 19 2018 9:18am
Saved me because pedaling an ebike anywhere with no assistance would be brutal!
If/when that does happen, just shift to a low gear and take your time. This and steep hills are two reasons to make sure you have a couple of really low gears in your drivetrain.

Range will vary greatly on how fast you go as well as how many stops and hills you encounter. Keep typical speeds to 20 mph on flat terrain and you can go surprisingly far - probably consuming around 15 watt hours per mile. Typical speeds of 25 mph adds another 10 watt hours per mile. Take it to 30 mph, and you've added another 12.5 watt hours per mile. So a 50% speed increase consumes about 150% more energy. If your range at 20 mph is 60 miles, then at 30 mph it's about 24 miles.

This all assumes that you are adding a moderate amount of pedal assist and your motor winding is similar to a 9C+ 2706 (which mine seems to be). But even with different motors, the general trend is basically the same.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by wturber » Aug 19 2018 9:55am

Philaphlous wrote:
Aug 19 2018 9:46am
Just went to get back on the bike... Flat tire. Ugh... Doesn't look like any damage or I ran over something so I'm guessing maybe either the stem or puncture from a spoke going over a bump? Good thing I've got 2 extra tubes on standby...
Often tough to say until you get the tire and tube off of the bike.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by Chalo » Aug 19 2018 11:29am

Philaphlous wrote:
Aug 19 2018 9:46am
Just went to get back on the bike... Flat tire. Ugh... Doesn't look like any damage or I ran over something so I'm guessing maybe either the stem or puncture from a spoke going over a bump? Good thing I've got 2 extra tubes on standby...
The overwhelming majority of flats are either foreign objects (glass, thorns, wires) or pinch flats from underinflation. If your puncture is on the inside of the tube, facing the hub, then it's probably a fault in the rim strip.

Inflate the tube by itself and try to find the puncture. And before you install the new time, be sure to feel carefully all around the inside of the tire for any sharp objects you might not be able to see on the outside.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by Philaphlous » Aug 20 2018 7:24am

Ended up being a defective tube... Ended up having a little tear along the seam on the outside of the tube... Good thing we don't trust that company for producing any other tear resistant items or else.... :roll:

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by Philaphlous » Aug 20 2018 8:08pm

Good grief... 2nd flat in 2 days... this time it was a sliver of glass in the tire. I'm guessing it might have been from the 1st flat and I didn't do a good enough job checking the tire... it's so tiny I ended up using some krazyglue and melted the little slit shut with my soldering iron on the tire and changed out the inner tube. Going to get a replacement tire just in case and a few more inner tubes...

My fault... I'm riding in our back alley that's filled with glass on the ground....lesson learned... :oops:

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by wturber » Aug 20 2018 8:34pm

Philaphlous wrote:
Aug 20 2018 8:08pm
Good grief... 2nd flat in 2 days... this time it was a sliver of glass in the tire. I'm guessing it might have been from the 1st flat and I didn't do a good enough job checking the tire... it's so tiny I ended up using some krazyglue and melted the little slit shut with my soldering iron on the tire and changed out the inner tube. Going to get a replacement tire just in case and a few more inner tubes...

My fault... I'm riding in our back alley that's filled with glass on the ground....lesson learned... :oops:
There may be better ways, but for small to medium sized tire damage I'll glue a tube patch to the inside of the tire - usually a medium to large sized one. That usually distributes the inflation pressure well enough to make a lasting repair. Though at a certain size of damage, I just punt and get a new tire.

Also, when I remove a tire and tube to check out a flat, I'll usually mark (chalk or masking tape) the tire where the valve stem is before un-mounting the tire. That way when I do find the puncture(s), I know the area of the tire to look at with extra care.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by MadRhino » Aug 20 2018 10:21pm

What is the tire that you have?
What is the PSI that you ride?

Bigger tires, better casing, lower PSI= better puncture resistance

Use wire beaded tires the widest that you frame does clear. Choose them Dual Ply if you can, or 120 tpi single ply. Use DH tubes of the proper size, add 4oz of green slime if your terrain is hard on tires.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by Philaphlous » Aug 21 2018 6:29am

Image

I run about 50-55psi on 60psi tires.

I believe they're the kenda 838 slicks. They're wire bead. The puncture is about 1-2mm max

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by Philaphlous » Aug 21 2018 3:41pm

So I'm going to put a little more money in the bike now instead of looking for something different...

Going to get a new chain and rear derailluer since both are currently rusted on my bike... I will pickup a patch kit but I think I'll be OK from now on. I should probably do a good job of inspecting my rear tire...

I'm also hoping to drop the 3 chairings in the front to 1 since I threw away my front derailluer...

I actually want to work on the bike so it looks half way decent and also functions as a bike and doesn't creek to high heaven when I try to pedal...you know....to get some exercise

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by MadRhino » Aug 21 2018 10:56pm

Philaphlous wrote:
Aug 21 2018 6:29am


I run about 50-55psi on 60psi tires.
I believe you could ride them much lower PSI, if your if your rims are wide especially. They would have a much better puncture resistance.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by Philaphlous » Aug 22 2018 10:32am

I've got super narrow rims.. They're stock trek rims on the 800...

I actually checked the tire pressure and no wonder why it was so hard pedaling yesterday... I was at 30psi on the rear and I guess my front was at 45. I brought them back upto 55-60psi and now they ride great!

So I'm not sure if anyone else has had this problem before with a hub motor but my absolute pos rear derailluer is rubbing on my hub motor when I'm trying to change into a high gear... It runs along the outer edge of the hub motor and won't allow me to shift into the highest gear. I'm surprised the derailluer even still works... Im picking up a new one today...and a chain. My chain is almost completely rusted. Lol.

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by wturber » Aug 22 2018 11:54am

Philaphlous wrote:
Aug 22 2018 10:32am
I've got super narrow rims.. They're stock trek rims on the 800...

I actually checked the tire pressure and no wonder why it was so hard pedaling yesterday... I was at 30psi on the rear and I guess my front was at 45. I brought them back upto 55-60psi and now they ride great!

So I'm not sure if anyone else has had this problem before with a hub motor but my absolute pos rear derailluer is rubbing on my hub motor when I'm trying to change into a high gear... It runs along the outer edge of the hub motor and won't allow me to shift into the highest gear. I'm surprised the derailluer even still works... Im picking up a new one today...and a chain. My chain is almost completely rusted. Lol.
You mean lowest gear (largest diameter cog nearest the hub)? If so, yes. I've set the derailer stop gear to keep me out of that gear. That is also one reason to keep at least one of your three smaller chainrings. If you ever do face a particularly steep or long hill and need a granny gear, having a small front chainring will be a blessing. Even if you do have to move the chain down to it by hand. BTW, I've kept my front derailer because I don't see much advantage in removing it. Neither the reduction in weight nor the handlebar space is that valuable to me.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by motomech » Aug 22 2018 2:04pm

"Flat guard" tires are worth their weight in gold on an Ebike.
The one thing I didn't like was the "squirmy" feeling the belt imparted to the rider on the Schwable and Forte tires I used in the past.
But recently, I switched to the WTB Thickslicks, which have a thinner thread and feel almost like reg. bicycle tires. Probably the best investment I have made concerning ebikes and I wish the were avail. for my 2WD which uses 24" X 2.5" tires.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/20Ah Multistar Lipo rear 5Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
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'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by markz » Aug 22 2018 10:03pm

Loving the ebike life
Indeed its a good life!
1) No Insurance Payments
2) No Fuel Costs
3) No Vehicle Repairs
4) No Broken or Cracked Windshields To Be Fixed
5) No Insurance Deductables
6) "Less" (yes Less in quotes) Road Rage Incidences
7) No Parking Payments

What I love is being able to ride up or down river and cast a line.
Hopping on the train and going to the other end of town, or choosing to ride there.
Getting the amazed stares from onlookers.

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Re: Loving the ebike life but wishing for a full suspension bike...

Post by billvon » Aug 22 2018 10:12pm

markz wrote:
Aug 22 2018 10:03pm
3) No Vehicle Repairs
You must have a very different sort of ebike than I do!
--bill von

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