Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
mickk   10 W

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Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Aug 20 2018 10:51pm

My my things have changed in ten years.

So theres no point fixing my old rear hub Bafang. May as well replace the lot.

So Im leaning towards some form of kit, leafmotor, Bafang ebay etc.

What I need is rear hub motor and 26 inch wheel std tyre with budget around 500
Upgraded controller to suit budget 300 (if kit controllers are no good).
Dont need disc brake, rim brakes are fine, frame doenst have rear disc mounts.
Battery to suit range of say 70k mostly flat, no mountains, no offroad a few hills.
Rackmount or similar, no idea of price, I would want two for exrtra range. Say budget 500?
Max speed around 40k on the flat
Im thinking I dont need 1500w 1000w would be plenty.

Im after range not speed.
Pedal assist is a must.
I just want to ride it not fiddle with it all the time.
with panniers call the riding weight 100 kg
10 years ago I could get 40k from the bafang 250w fully loaded weight 130kg
So it will be fun to see how much tings have improved.
I am happy with the frame, its solid and fits well so I want to reuse it rather than buy a complete bike.

IM hoping for a link to a wheel kit and a link to a controller and a link to a battery and the job is done.
That would be ssooo easy, thanks in advance.

lionman   100 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by lionman » Aug 21 2018 1:38am

You probably want to spend less on the kit and more on the battery.

You could get a 1000w rear hub kit with motor/controller/throttle/PAS etc for under 500AUD off ebay or Ali.

Order a big triangle pack from EM3EV (assuming it will fit in your frame). A pack that will get you 70+kms will need to be fairly big, you will want that weight as low and central as possible.

Alternatively you could order it all from EM3EV

MAC motor (1200w max) built into 26" rim
6FET controller
TDCM Torque sensing bottom bracket (depending on your frames BB design)
Cycle Analyst 3 with hardware
52V 30Ah triangle battery with bluetooth BMS and bag
5A 58.8V charger with 90%/100% switch

around 2K AUD plus shipping and duties, but would be a pretty sweet ride.

You could save money by getting a smaller battery and cadence PAS sensor. Depends on how much you want to peddle and how deep you want to discharge the battery. The shallower you discharge, the longer the pack will last. You also want the pack to still get you the range you need even after it starts to age and its capacity drops. The cadence PAS systems don't feel as natural as the torque sensing variety, but are cheaper and simpler to install.

mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Aug 21 2018 4:46am

A kit sounds better for me, when it comes to things electrical a 500 kit can be replaced a 2000 job will just worry me.

I found this, cant see anyting wrong with it for the price. Lowering the speed in the options list to 25mph should ease the strain a bit and make it last longer, it has regen which is good.

http://www.leafbike.com/products/diy-bi ... -1067.html

Found this also for almost half the price, Violamart 1500w 48v

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/26-1500W-Re ... Swp7tabn~b

markz   100 GW

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by markz » Aug 21 2018 12:01pm

Leafbike kit is the way to go!
It is a KNOWN quantity, KNOWN to be a good quality kit, and a great quality motor!

Whereas the ebay kit is an UNKNOWN quantity, an UNKNOWN quality kit, and an UNKNOWN quality motor.

mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Aug 21 2018 7:19pm

Sounds fair enough. Will do.

mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Aug 21 2018 8:55pm

Ok its ordered and paid for.

LBCK26481000RN $293 USD Torque arm $18 USD Shipping $152. Paypal fee which is only added at the very end of the process,. $17
all UP $480.13 USD.

When doing the conversion, paying in AUD would have been about $70 AUD more than USD in real terms a bit odd.
Maybe it is an incentive to pay in USD not Aussie pesos.

The motor set to max speed 25mph has to be made is not in stock.

Now I need a 48V battery, how many Ah am I looking for? looks like 12 or 20 to me. I am thinking mounted on downtube or top of rear rack as I use panniers. This would work well I think 48/12
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lionman   100 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by lionman » Aug 22 2018 12:05am

paypal exchange rate is not that great. They are just making extra profit on the transaction.

The battery size you need will depend on how far you want to go and how much you are willing to pedal. If you are expecting 70km from a case pack then you will need to be peddling a lot.

Pretty sure you will only get 20Ah in one of those cases at 36V, not 48/52V. A 52V 20Ah pack has about 30% more energy than a 36V 20Ah pack.

70km is quite far, I would seriously consider a triangle pack in a frame bag. 52V in the 25-30Ah range.

https://em3ev.com/shop/50v-14s9p-large- ... rrency=AUD

Image

mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Aug 22 2018 9:00pm

Ah I guess the fun starts now, batteries.
I am going to look at whats inside the existing battery case and see if that can be reused with new motor.
I may then just have to add a second battery for what I want. I think it was a 36/12 on the old one come to think of it.
That used to get me 40-50k
I know the ideal is the triangle battery, but I want to be a bit more discreet and cheaper.

I will head over to the battery forum.

Oh after reading that the axle for 7 speed cassette is smaller than for 6 speed, I changed to 6 speed.

mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Aug 23 2018 2:26am

Well its shipped already, so that was quick! we will see if its 6 or 7 doesnt matter really.

I have been taking apart the old ebike gently so the motor controller, wires can all be rehomed.

I had to cut only one wire and pull a couple apart.

I am glad I never had to work on the old bike as all the wires are run through channels on the frame and the plugs need to come apart to go through each one, a lot harder than it sounds, very time consuming. But I have salvaged it.

I seen the controller after all these years, very small, almost ciggie packet size.

I will clean up the frame and forks and see what we have to do. Ive got brakes for it, front wheel, need new gs derailler, chain, maybe chain ring, chain, tyres tubes puncture protection thats about it.
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mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Aug 25 2018 1:59am

IM leaning toward 1 x 48v 13ah or similar frame mounted pack, I can use the existing downtube 36v 12 as well then.

I figure that will give me 100k range in pedal assist mode.

Which name brand will depend on fitting type and charger cost.

I decided if I was to go down the triangle route, I would build one myself. The complete kits, all snap on only a few bits of solder, you save $400 doing it yourself, two for the price of one.

Waiting on BB tool to arrive, I dunno where mine went. Got a couple bikes from the tip for parts, may be able to use a 52 chainring and nice chrome rings, a couple tubes, nice valve caps, a few 10mm hex heads, bar grips, maybe a BB a rear derailer, and saddle all on this project. Was an almost new $500 type hybrid there you see. Nice large 21 inch frame if anyone wants one.

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wturber   100 kW

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by wturber » Aug 25 2018 9:34am

mickk wrote:
Aug 25 2018 1:59am
IM leaning toward 1 x 48v 13ah or similar frame mounted pack, I can use the existing downtube 36v 12 as well then.

I figure that will give me 100k range in pedal assist mode.
There are no hard numbers for range, but you can do some reasonable estimates. If your previous battery was 36v 12Ah that means you had 432 watt/hours and that got you 40-50 km. A 48v 13Ah gives you 624 watt/hours so that suggests more like 60-70 km range.

Let's figure it another way. using my personal experience. My moderately fast commuting averages about 20 wh/mi. But I'm going up and down hills and trying to cruise at between 20 and 25 mph most of the time. This is probably faster than you intend to go, but not a lot faster. At this rate you have a 50 km range. If I slow down a lot, turn off my headlight, and bypass my boost converter, I figure I could probably get 15 wh/mi which gives me a 67 km range.

Now it is perfectly possible to get more than a 15 wh/mi range. After all, regular bicycles can cover many miles with zero electric assist. But the reality is that I seldom see an ebike getting better than 15 wh/mi and covering distance at a "reasonable" clip unless it is a recumbent.

If we now consider that batteries will age and that you don't want to run your battery down to empty very often, it seems pretty likely that 60-70 km is probably going to be your practical range limit. If you want to go 100 km regularly, you need a bigger battery. a 48v 20Ah battery might get you there. But going a bit bigger would make it more of a sure thing.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Aug 25 2018 9:56pm

Thats where the 36/12 comes in, gives me extra range.

mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Aug 25 2018 11:27pm

I think I go here for batteries, seems to be a lot less for the same cells as other companies.
https://www.elecycles.com/component/e-b ... nt/battery
changed my mind, going for local stock
Its gunna be a 52 17.5 or 16.5 downtube, triangles wont fit.
will give me the range I want.

16.5 Samsung 33G cells is 50$ less than 17.5 Samsung 18600 Battery Cells Im leaning toward 17.5 for now

mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Sep 02 2018 11:11pm

I made up a cardboard box. It seems I can fit a jumbo shark battery from Em3ev.com which is where I am leaning toward now.
Ive got 118 x 89 x unlimited length. jumbo is 96 x 88x 368. It will be a snug fit but should work.
srg 003 [1280x768].JPG
The comparison photos of Em3ev.com vs lunamate battery pretty much put me off Luna.
Seems there is an extra charge of around $150 if you want a local battery of same specs, ie local shipping.
Otherwise its a few dollars here and there, the odd amp here and there. Not a lot to choose from really.
To me the gap in the market is someone who buys the china versions cheap, tests them and looks inside to see the type of cells and adds $100 to the cost of the china battery for doing so.
Would under cut the market by $200 a unit and add some sort of buyer confidence.
There is not one seller who gives full specs on any battery, something is always missing, a view, a measurement, a %, cell type on it goes.

mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Sep 03 2018 9:17pm

I went for a 48v 17.5 ah silverfish battery on ebay but located in australia LG MJ1 cells $636 posted.
A bit of a compromise as far as specs go but will fit where I want it to go. Should get 80k range we will see.
Saved about 200-400 over a 52v 16/17.
Just need a cluster now and a lock ring spanner then I can get to work.

mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Sep 06 2018 12:27am

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Well this frame had a bottom bracket with a spindle 155mm long, 200 end to end.
I could only get 124mm which looks very small in comparison.
I measured the old bafang wheel and the hub is about 85mm wheres the leafmotor is only 60 or so
so there is the reason for the long spindle.
So the 124 will fit no worries.
I went for std generic sealed bearing square taper from local BS, lucky bloke will be fixing all my mistakes.
I bought a couple of tupperware containers to see how they would go as cases for the controller.
The 2L juice container seems to be the best fit, plus its got a bung in the lid that can be used for the cables.
Plenty of room. It will go on the downtube.
Battery arrived, only took 2 days.
It was wrapped in a thin layer of that plastic foam like sheet. Not even bubble wrap. Satchell shows signs of being dropped on the corners as the plastic is torn and it doesnt tear easy. No instructions, 4 amp 48v charger is shite, has the smallest LED ever made and the dimmest too.
Its on charge, I can see a very faint green light flickering I suppose thats good as it hasnt exploded yet.
I reckon I will be wanting a better charger.
It fits behind the seatpost no worries, just have to work out supports etc. as there were no mounting or charging instructions.

mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Sep 08 2018 3:29am

The back tyre isnthere yet so Ive just put the bottom bracket on.
I need to get some touchup paint. may as well do it now while the frame is bare.
It weighs 7.5kg with the packrack fitted, so call it 7kg. I think half is in the front fork.
It wil be 20-25kg all up.
Ive decided to get a new crank set, I think I have a nice 105 here with a new 52 ring.

mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Sep 09 2018 5:12am

I found some old 1050 170mm cranks that will polish up OK when I get some polish.
Also found near new set of 52/32 biopace rings that will do nicley. I dont plan on using the 32 as I wont be fitting a gear lever bit it can sit there for manual mode in emergencies.
The PAS ring does not fit a square taper sealed BB so I will have to modify it. I may epoxy the sensor minus the ring to the frame, as its only one sensor not a bi type.
I could glue it to the outside of the BB frame shell but no point if thers gunna be glue theres a better place for it.
The rear hub motor seems to want to fit dead centre of the drop outs.
When the tyre turns up I will fit the rear wheel so I can adjust the brake pin settings.
Then fit front cranks and chain, check angles.
Then I can fit front disc brakes and wheel
Do everything apart from wiring, send to LBS for checking of nuts bolts and cables and shifting.
Then work on battery mount, then controller mount, then connect it all up.
be 2 weeks all up

mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Sep 09 2018 9:39pm

Well the marathon plus tyre turned up. Took a bit of fitting as it was a bit more warped thana usual.

The post office hit me for excess postage $7.15 as the seller only paid for 500 grams it weighs 995.

The back wheel looks like it will weigh about 8 kilos all up.

mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Sep 12 2018 2:17am

The chain has gone missing in the mail and still waiting on the cassette. When the cassette gets here I can fit the back wheel, flip it and install the cockpit. In the meantime I will fit new bearings to the front wheel.
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mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Sep 17 2018 4:04am

The chain arrived, so did the 7 speed cassette what dont fit the wheel without a spacer! So its easier to buy an 8 speed than try to get a spacer.

mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Sep 21 2018 1:00am

Got the right cassette, the games can begin.

I have all parts now so can play lock washer fun with the back wheel, get it upright, fit the cockpit.
Run the wires, do the connections and see wheres best for the controller to go.

Downtube, on top of rear rack, seat tube.... we will see.

mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Sep 22 2018 10:34pm

Can anyone see a problem with this arrangement?

On the drive side, from the inside out I have a nut on the outside of the cassette by a few mm acting as a stop.
Then I have the silver torque washer, no it wont make a difference if I flatten the tab, then is the drop out
attached to it is a silver derailleur mount, then a torque arm that is bolted to the frame, under the pack rack arm.
Then the nut. I am yet to see any of these washers with the tabs actually fair and square inside the dropouts.
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The LHS has from te inside out, two C washers acting as spacers to protect the cable, then the supplied torque washer with tab, the frame, a flat washer then the nut.
005.jpg
The axle seems to be low enough in the forks, the wheel is pretty much dead centre although I havent tightened it all up properly.
One thing is the torque arm on the drive site, where it is secured to the frame is usually used to mount the lower arm of the pack rack. This hole is only a few mm from the outside of the frame. It may crack under load I dunno.
Attachments
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mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Sep 23 2018 4:15am

Heres the general idea. The juice container has enough room to shove all the cable connections up through the hole in the lid whilst still having room for air. It will be simple enough to stick a thermometer in the container and maybe a lil solar micro fan or two. Should be pretty waterproof and any water will be visible in the container.
I can orientate the controller in the container 6 ways.
I will decide which way when I have all the cables run.
It will attach to the bottle mounts and can rotate out to allow access to the controller.
I am having trouble removing the old decals, when I get them off I will touch up the frame.
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mickk   10 W

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Re: Everything needed apart from the frame Aussie Build

Post by mickk » Oct 05 2018 3:51am

I have spent a lot of time trying to remove the decals from the frame.

My my, eucy oil, petrol, heat, wd40, hot water, you name it, very stubborn.
finally got em off, touching up the frame with spray gloss enamel.
Been sick, but very close.

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