Newbie help with choosing a kit

Hey,
I've been reading around and basically got 2 options on my mind..
Mainly because there are so many out there that it was overwhelming to figure out which ones are quality ones..

Basically my whole budget is around or less than 500 pounds. I live in the uk.
I'd like 48v 1000w motor with around 20ah battery.. Basically to be able to go up fairly annoying hills and do about 30miles on a trip..
Hope that makes sense? I weigh about 100kg.

For kit, I am considering either :

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1947983314.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&productId=1947983314&productSubject=Wholesale-48V-1000W-26-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-Ebike-Conversion-Kits-2015-New-Style-with-LCD&spm=2114.01010208.3.28.agiwjN&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9%252Csearchweb201602_4_10037_10034_507_10032_10020_10017_10005_10006_10021_10022_10009_10008_10018_10019%252Csearchweb201603_6&btsid=860fca15-d84c-42ce-b602-626f3cc5fe9d&aff_platform=link-c-tool&cpt=1536672663084&sk=JIEQJ233V&aff_trace_key=c44bad4ae122472f80a881ac7dc023cc-1536672663084-06475-JIEQJ233V&terminal_id=612d850d801042fca25057fe6cc21117


Or


https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/529-q11-48v1kw-rear-driving-e-bike-conversion-kit-ebike-kit.html

Or any other similar suggestion you might have that is cheaper and just as good quality?

And then, with whichever of the recommended kits, I was considering getting this battery:

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32401868802.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&productId=32401868802&productSubject=Great-Triangle-electric-bike-battery-48v-20ah-Samsung-cell-lithium-ion-for-1000w-1500w-2000w-motor&spm=2114.30010308.3.10.9N72mP&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9%252Csearchweb201602_4_10037_10034_507_10032_10020_10017_10005_10006_10021_10022_10009_10008_10018_10019%252Csearchweb201603_6&btsid=ec3a5d35-2689-42a7-aaa3-8d3bc6e08155&aff_platform=link-c-tool&cpt=1536670781937&sk=iq3BeEE2n&aff_trace_key=11b71db8810c4628bb10609ea70349ce-1536670781937-04759-iq3BeEE2n&terminal_id=612d850d801042fca25057fe6cc21117

But I am not sure if it would be compatible with the kits, or how I can find that out?

Thanks a lot.

BMS Battery seems cheap, until you see what the s/h prices are, but still they are a very good price over all.

Buy
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/529-q11-48v1kw-rear-driving-e-bike-conversion-kit-ebike-kit.html
and
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/664-high-c-rate-polymer-li-ion-battery-heat-shrink-battery-pack-battery.html#/336-voltage_capacity-48v_15ah
or
or you could also buy one of their batteries made to fit their rear rack.
and
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-charger-ev-charger/883-p20-200watts-pcabs-shell-li-ionlifepo4-battery-charger.html
and
https://bmsbattery.com/parts/450-a-pair-of-ebike-torque-arm-parts.html?search_query=torque+arms&results=88
and
a spare throttle
freewheel removal
chain whip

You did not mention em3ev.com , Paul a fellow Englishman owns the business and lives in China. ( Much better customer service than e-bay or aliexpress ! )

Good Products, Real good Quality Batteries.

If you lived in the U.S. there is Grin in Canada for great products including the best batteries for anyone who wants to travel , and Luna that makes their own packs . ( last time I checked only if you buy a whole kit form them )

However since you live in the U.K. and shipping prices from California or B.C. would be high , then em3ev.com is your best bet for quality products that are quality and work together .

https://em3ev.com/

markz said:

BMS Battery seems cheap, until you see what the s/h prices are, but still they are a very good price over all.

Buy
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/529-q11-48v1kw-rear-driving-e-bike-conversion-kit-ebike-kit.html
and
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/664-high-c-rate-polymer-li-ion-battery-heat-shrink-battery-pack-battery.html#/336-voltage_capacity-48v_15ah
or
or you could also buy one of their batteries made to fit their rear rack.
and
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-charger-ev-charger/883-p20-200watts-pcabs-shell-li-ionlifepo4-battery-charger.html
and
https://bmsbattery.com/parts/450-a-pair-of-ebike-torque-arm-parts.html?search_query=torque+arms&results=88
and
a spare throttle
freewheel removal
chain whip

Click to expand...

Thanks,
Why choose bmsbattery over aliexpress? Are they incompatible? The Ali battery for example seems really great range..

Also why the spare throttle? Do they tend to break?

smaua said:

Why choose bmsbattery over aliexpress? Are they incompatible? The Ali battery for example seems really great range..

Click to expand...

Most e-bike batteries are a crapshoot in terms of reliability, lifespan, quality of construction. Getting one from an unknown seller raises the risk of having problems with it and lowers the likelihood of having any recourse if you do have problems.

The listing in your battery link suggests that if you need to communicate with the seller after the sale, you won't be able to do it in English. That is at least a complication unless you speak Mandarin.

Also why the spare throttle? Do they tend to break?

Click to expand...

Yes. Cheap chargers also tend to crap out while young.

Chalo said:

Most e-bike batteries are a crapshoot in terms of reliability, lifespan, quality of construction. Getting one from an unknown seller raises the risk of having problems with it and lowers the likelihood of having any recourse if you do have problems.

The listing in your battery link suggests that if you need to communicate with the seller after the sale, you won't be able to do it in English. That is at least a complication unless you speak Mandarin.

Click to expand...

I got that link suggestion from bike school, it seems trustworthy. I guess the language part is less of a big issue whereas the quality and compatibility of the item is.

This is the bike school link http://www.ebikeschool.com/list-great-inexpensive-electric-bicycle-parts/

Yes. Cheap chargers also tend to crap out while young.

Click to expand...

I was looking at this charger, it was recommended as well on the bike school link. What do you think?


https://m.aliexpress.com/item/422560048.html?trace=storeDetail2msiteDetail&aff_platform=link-c-tool&cpt=1536671650377&sk=iyR3zbAUR&aff_trace_key=c71c35e27a5e4837ba528cc8eb4f7a95-1536671650377-05037-iyR3zbAUR&terminal_id=612d850d801042fca25057fe6cc21117

I guess I would like a charger which is faster than 2a and perhaps more reliable so I don't have to keep replacing it. Is there any you would recommend on bmsbattery that works with the other parts mentioned from bms?

Thanks

markz said:

BMS Battery seems cheap, until you see what the s/h prices are, but still they are a very good price over all.

Buy
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/529-q11-48v1kw-rear-driving-e-bike-conversion-kit-ebike-kit.html
and
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/664-high-c-rate-polymer-li-ion-battery-heat-shrink-battery-pack-battery.html#/336-voltage_capacity-48v_15ah
or
or you could also buy one of their batteries made to fit their rear rack.
and
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-charger-ev-charger/883-p20-200watts-pcabs-shell-li-ionlifepo4-battery-charger.html
and
https://bmsbattery.com/parts/450-a-pair-of-ebike-torque-arm-parts.html?search_query=torque+arms&results=88
and
a spare throttle
freewheel removal
chain whip

Click to expand...

What about this battery? Looks a bit cheaper than the one you recommended.. Seems limited to 4a charging but otherwise I'm not sure how it differs?

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/248-48v15ah-li-ion-shrink-tube-ebike-battery-pack-ecitypower-battery.html

smaua said:

markz said:

BMS Battery seems cheap, until you see what the s/h prices are, but still they are a very good price over all.

Buy
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/529-q11-48v1kw-rear-driving-e-bike-conversion-kit-ebike-kit.html
and
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/664-high-c-rate-polymer-li-ion-battery-heat-shrink-battery-pack-battery.html#/336-voltage_capacity-48v_15ah
or
or you could also buy one of their batteries made to fit their rear rack.
and
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-charger-ev-charger/883-p20-200watts-pcabs-shell-li-ionlifepo4-battery-charger.html
and
https://bmsbattery.com/parts/450-a-pair-of-ebike-torque-arm-parts.html?search_query=torque+arms&results=88
and
a spare throttle
freewheel removal
chain whip

Click to expand...

Thanks,
Why choose bmsbattery over aliexpress? Are they incompatible? The Ali battery for example seems really great range..

Also why the spare throttle? Do they tend to break?

Click to expand...

BMS Battery is the World's largest distributor of Ebike parts/kits and in general their batteries are considered a good value. The high turn-over rate assures they haven't been sitting on a shelf for a long period of time. There has been problems w/ their BMS's and chargers, but that is pretty much the case w/ all vendors. It has been documented that their "panasonic cell" batteries do, in fact contain Panasonic cells.
By having so many products, everything can be ordered from them, consolidating and saving on freight. I, like many others like their offerings of GEARED motors.
While throttles can fail, the main reason to buy several is to get several different styles to try until you find the one you like the best. I prefer the left-hand, half twist throttle and BMS Battery is one of the few places it can be found. They are only several Dollars and since freight will be determined by the heavy stuff(batt, motor, whl.), the time to stock up is during the main order.
Small items should also include their spoke wrench and a couple of pr.s of their torque arms.

smaua said:

What about this battery? Looks a bit cheaper than the one you recommended.. Seems limited to 4a charging but otherwise I'm not sure how it differs?

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/248-48v15ah-li-ion-shrink-tube-ebike-battery-pack-ecitypower-battery.html

Click to expand...

It's limited to 20A discharge. If you use a motor kit that has a maximum discharge rate of less than that, no problem. 1000W kits use more than that much current.

Amazing, thanks all! Things are much clearer now. The only thing left is the battery charger, if there's anything someone could recommend that would charge the
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/664-high-c-rate-polymer-li-ion-battery-heat-shrink-battery-pack-battery.html#/336-voltage_capacity-48v_15ah

at something higher than 2a? And which is more durable? I'm not sure how I can tell the maximum possible charging amps for that battery..

Everything as mention!

*

I wouldnt hesitate to buy from any of these vendors, in no particular order.

MXUS Factory in China - https://mxus.en.alibaba.com/

Leafbike - www.leafbike.com

Leafmotor - www.leafmotor.com

OSN Power - https://osn.en.alibaba.com/?spm=a2700.details.cordpanyb.1.779435dcFSMzm8

Unit Pack Power - https://unitpackpower.aliexpress.com/store/1178407 - Good quality batteries

www.ebikes.ca - Vancouver Canada, batteries, kits, chargers, everything you need to e-ride

www.em3ev.com - Englishman in China - Batteries, chargers, kits, everything you need to e-bike

www.lunacycle.com - California - Batteries, chargers, kits, everything you need to e-cruise (just having fun using different terms for ebikes)

Greentime - https://evfittinggreentime.aliexpress.com/store/313864 - Batteries, kits, chargers

BMS Battery - as mentioned

Conhismotor - https://conhismotor.aliexpress.com/store/513166 and https://www.ebay.com/sch/conhismotor/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
- There is a sister company of Conhismotor called RisunMotor
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/706709?spm=2114.10010108.0.0.1c8c6acfuE2Jqg

YESCOMUSA - ebike kits - https://www.yescomusa.com/search?type=product&q=electric+bike%5D
There is a very detailed thread on their motor, use E.S. search.

Xcceries - https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=xcceries&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xebike.TRS0&_nkw=ebike&_sacat=0

http://ebikessf.com/

http://www.pswpower.com

Chargers are just a crap shoot. I have a cheap chinese charger that I bought used like 3 years ago and it still works fine, it's just the quality control isn't great (as with most cheap stuff), so the early life failure rate is pretty high.

If it lasts a month and you don't do anything mean to it (drop it, reverse polarity, spill beer in it, etc) it's probably going to keep working for a long time.

But as mentioned above, they're cheap but the shipping isn't necessarily. Having a spare charger on hand isn't a bad idea anyway, maybe one to keep at home and one at work. Or one at home and one in a pannier bag for charging on the road.

We're just speaking from experience, which IMO is far more valuable than any claims made by the manufacturer or seller.

Which brings me to batteries and their claimed range. Ignore that. Look at the actual specs, Voltage, Amperage (in and out) and capacity in Ah. Those are hard numbers that you can hold the seller to. Range claims can be fudged any which way.

Dunno anything about these choices... perhaps others can comment. Only though is to stay away from claims over 1000 watts (continuous?) unless yah gots "big" hills to go up.
Top 5 Best Bike Conversion Kit Reviews 2018 | Cheap Bicycle Conversion Kit Perfect Quality !
[youtube]ChJinSBSPdI[/youtube]

EDIT: Maybe see also: 5 crazy bicycle conversion kits to convert any bike to electric bike Best Quality ! (Not sure why these are "crazy"...) :lol:
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Hehe... It's Bike Conversion Kit Day on YT. Best Electric Bicycle Conversion Kits of 2018 - Electric Wheel
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Yup they exaggerate the claims.

And another note, a seller may sell a motor that is stated at 500W and another with 1000W, but in reality they are both the exact same motor. It is just the seller trying to catch a scared fish. Like say a certain country has an ambiguous law that states no bike over 500W and another country states an ambiguous law about no bike over 1000W. They are both the exact same motor.

Oh ya another note, sellers stated SPEED MOTOR or TORQUE MOTOR, well that is hogwash and there is an entire thread on that MYTH. They are the exact same motor, again the seller trying to cater their sales technique to uninformed consumers.


Proper post on "The Myth" - https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64907&p=984783&hilit=myth#p984783
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14482&p=218275&hilit=myth#p218275
and a few posts down from ^that one - https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14482&p=218275&hilit=myth#p218309

Most recently - https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=96045&p=1407496&hilit=speed+myth#p1406750

Where am I going with that statement, I dunno, but its good to know and learn. Maybe not high priority on your list, but do remember, a high kv = higher speed for voltage, throw that into a smaller wheel and you do get more torque, but that will confuse you so forget about that. I would buy a 4T wind motor, if you have a choice. That means you need a smaller battery for the same speed as say a 8T wind motor. But again, we are getting ahead of ourselves here.

Just go ahead and buy a kit, install it, and e-ride your e-bicycle. You will grin from ear to ear and other cyclists will be jealous of you, they will sometimes stare, they will ask you questions and when you pass anyone going up a hill while your legs are straight out in front doing feet circles they will smile and laugh. Nonsense I heard you say out loud, yes I've done it just to fuuck with 'em.

dustNbone said:

any claims made by the manufacturer or seller.

claims

Click to expand...

"You will grin from ear to ear"... Careful. My jaw hurts.

I am doing what you are doing.

My advice is to buy as much locally as possible.

Its near impossible to comare specs and shipping prices across the board of options.

If something goes wrong, do you want to pay air freight for 7 kilos to China?

Things will go wrong, problems will arise, get to know your LBS as you will need them eventually.

China ships pretty fast tho as they just stuff the cargo hold of the first China Airways passenger flight full of batteries.

mickk said:

get to know your LBS as you will need them eventually.

Click to expand...

Good for traditional installs, and components but nothing ebike related.
Even if they sold ebikes, they'd work on their own brand.

markz said:

mickk said:

get to know your LBS as you will need them eventually.

Click to expand...

Good for traditional installs, and components but nothing ebike related.
Even if they sold ebikes, they'd work on their own brand.

Click to expand...

I'm the one at my shop who inherits most of the e-bike repairs and upgrades. To be honest, most of those bikes are not good enough for Triumph the Insult Comic Dog to poop on. Some are design atrocities, and most of them are BSO quality at best.

I consider sometimes hanging up my shingle as a specialty e-bike mechanic, but I suspect I'd regret that choice every day of my life. I think my usual gigs would have to become a lot harder or lower-paying.

Hey thanks for everything.. I guess I'll get stuff from bmsbattery this time and see how it goes and probably learn a bit in the process. Appreciate all the answers, I'll keep them in mind. Really looking forward to zooming across London.. This city is way too big but hopefully it will feel smaller soon

markz said:

Oh ya another note, sellers stated SPEED MOTOR or TORQUE MOTOR, well that is hogwash and there is an entire thread on that MYTH. They are the exact same motor, again the seller trying to cater their sales technique to uninformed consumers.

Click to expand...

I am relatively new here and seem to have missed out on that discussion. What I'd infer from the terms - if they're offering two different options on the same motor here - is that one motor is wired tighter than the other, what some sellers describe in terms of rpm/volts. That goes to your wheel diameter, is one way of looking at it - if it's going on a 20" wheel, then you want something that turns faster than for a 26", because the 20" wheel has to turn faster at the same velocity.

But I opted for the slower of the two options I was presented with, for my 26" wheel, because I cared less about speed and more about acceleration at slow speed. (And that has worked out great.) Which I could sort of see describing as "speed" vs. "torque." But that isn't the choice they're offering?

^^ LOVE torque... in a stop-and-go urban world. BUT... torque usually likes a smaller diameter wheels? Riding on 12" wheels - my first electric two-wheeler - wasn't too hard to beat about anything across an intersection when the light went green. Just press that little GO Button... and hang on. "Name of the game" is *average* trip speeds.

Chalo said:

e-bike repairs and upgrades.

Click to expand...

So lets get the OP excited about ebiking. I know he/she will have a blast.
Go ahead and buy any of the kits mentioned and ride, you are guaranteed to f'ing enjoy yourself.
There are of course considerations to consider.
For example hills, if there is a very long and steep hill that you need to ride up your requirements for type of motor will change.

Direct Drive, Geared and Mid Drive. Direct Drive is the most reliable and no noise with a sinewave controller (extra $) but with a generic trapezoidal controller, the noise is there but not a lot, not like a geared motor. Direct Drive motors have a sort of lag to them when not powered, it feels like a flat tire, meaning there is more drag, run out of juice and have to pedal home you can still do it not an issue at all. You can get more torque in a direct drive by going to a smaller wheel, or upgrading to a better controller.

Geared motors there is zero drag, they are more noisy and people can hear you coming up behind them. More moving parts, so the gears could strip. You get more torque because of the reduction from the very high speed motor, through the internal motor gears to a rideable speed of your wheel.

Mid drives are geared motor, but you can use your bicycles gears as a sort of transmission. This is the ultimate in hill climbing ability. The Bafang BBSHD is very quiet and can climb anything, this first hand info coming from a chat, in person with a fellow whohad the BBSHD who saw me charging my ebike and hence subsiquent 10 minute chat. First ever on going chat with a knowledgable person face to face.

In all cases the motor winding wire could burn up if you are not careful.

Go to www.ebikes.ca click on Tools then Trip Simulator (BETA), go to left hand side for different inputs, go to the bottom of that, and to Chart Options - Input Type and change from Elevation & Distance to Google Maps. A Google maps will come up of Vancouver BC Canada, where www.bikes.ca is located. Scroll out by clicking on the - and go to your location. Zoom in by clicking + and move around by left clicking the mouse and moving the mouse. Right click your starting location, and Right click your destination. You can move the route by left clicking the route line and moving to your desired pathway or road. Click on the X at the top right to finish and calculate all the variables. Battery power required, percent grade, distances and so on.

If your motor is on there, good. If not then we can help you choose the closest matching motor you are interested in or have bought. Leave all other Motor Parameters as they are. Under Vehicle Parameters choose the type of riding position and bike. Then input the appropriate
Mass (kg):
Human Pwr. (W):
Wheel Diam. (in):
Sp. Lim. (Kph):
Head Wnd (Kph):

Under Battery Parameters the main things to change are the voltages and the Ah, voltage = speed and Ah = distance. Under Controller Parameters, you need to choose what output your controller has, 20A, 25A, 35A, 40A.

Under Chart Options Second Graph I like to select grade but you can choose anything.

I hope that helps and now my battery is charged and I am ready to e-cruise to the pulled pork sandwich shack and chow down.

LockH said:

^^ LOVE torque... in a stop-and-go urban world. BUT... torque usually likes a smaller diameter wheels?

Click to expand...

Sure, but ... like I said, I'm doing great with a "torque" option - if that's what we're talking about - on a 26" wheel. I'm still able to go as fast as I want. With no suspension vs. conditions around here, that's rarely much more than 20mph, but I think I'm good for maybe 30mph. Supposedly a 1500W configuration, if that matters. You have to check the system parameters and run the simulations or whatever to see whether a given configuration will hit the spot, but my point is, you can go to ebikes.ca or wherever and see hubs offered in different winding configurations. Does that mean torque vs. speed? or is that something else that really is marketing eyewash?