Seattle Commuter/Trail Build

nlhaines · Sep 18, 2018

I'm looking to build a relatively cheap mid-power (1500W or more) mid-drive. I don't think I'd need to ever go much over 35mph, but I suppose it's hard to know for sure.

I have a Bike (Cannondale Cujo 2) that's got 27.5x2.8" tires and decent components (Disc Brakes, 1x11 drivetrain). It's well within the return window, so if starting with this bike is a bad idea, then please let me know. I could get about $950 credited back to my card upon return. I figured the wheels/tires would somewhat make up for not having a rear suspension and the hard-tail configuration would be good for speed and commuting.

I was thinking I'd get a Cyclone kit, Luna's Bluetooth controller, and a relatively small battery (for now).

I want to avoid RC LiPo and the fire hazard that comes with it, but at this point my main concern is what kit I should go with.

So main priorities:

- Good for hills
- Relatively Cheap (up to $800 on motor/controller)
- Capable of 30-35mph or more
- Reasonably light (need to carry it up to 3rd floor apt on a tight staircase, don't mind if it's difficult, but must be possible after a ride).

Other info:
Rider weight - ~170 lbs

I have some experience working on bikes/e-bikes so I'm open to challenges but would like to avoid soldering if at all possible.

dustNbone · Sep 18, 2018

The 3kw Cyclone will probably do the job pretty well, it's not the easiest install though, nor is it stealth in any way. But it seems to be fairly reliable once installed and debugged.

Battery is super important on any ebike, don't cheap out on it, you will not be happy.

As for getting up the stairs, a mid drive bike in low gear climbs the stairs by itself

markz · Sep 18, 2018

dustNbone said:
The 3kw Cyclone

I would vote for the Cyclone 4kw
but if you wanted silence, I have heard first hand, face to face from a guy that says the BBSHD's are silent I dunno if he said with a Sinewave controller. Do simple search on ES.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=95662&p=1400778&hilit=BBSHD+silence#p1400778

The stock handlebar also interfered with my sticked out leg. I often accidentally pressed the horn on left turns.well, given the silence of this bike. That can warn other trail riders i am coming. Good feature!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=92324&p=1352820&hilit=BBSHD+silence#p1352820

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&p=1306591&hilit=BBSHD+silence#p1306298

nlhaines · Sep 18, 2018

markz said:
dustNbone said:

The 3kw Cyclone

Click to expand...

I would vote for the Cyclone 4kw
but if you wanted silence, I have heard first hand, face to face from a guy that says the BBSHD's are silent I dunno if he said with a Sinewave controller. Do simple search on ES.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=95662&p=1400778&hilit=BBSHD+silence#p1400778

The stock handlebar also interfered with my sticked out leg. I often accidentally pressed the horn on left turns.well, given the silence of this bike. That can warn other trail riders i am coming. Good feature!

Click to expand...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=92324&p=1352820&hilit=BBSHD+silence#p1352820

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&p=1306591&hilit=BBSHD+silence#p1306298

I was looking at the Cyclone on Luna Cycle. Where is the 4kw available? Can I get it without incurring high shipping costs?

I'm not too worried about noise as long as it doesn't sound like a gas motor or anything crazy.

markz · Sep 19, 2018

No they aren't that loud, just the typical geared motor sound. I am used to direct drive hub motors which have no noise when using a Sine wave controller.

I type in Cyclone TW into the search engine to find the manufacturer of the Cyclones
The website is the same http://www.cyclone-tw.com/
I believe the TW stands for Taiwan which is 200km (124 miles) off the coast of China.

http://www.cyclone-tw.com/Coaxial.html is the 4kw and they are a very slightly larger motor then the 3kw.
To buy - http://www.cyclone-tw.com/motor.html

$270usd (clock wise shaft rotation) and $290usd (CCW)

I paid $520usd included shipping to Alberta Canada.

Lemme look at Luna's offerings...
https://lunacycle.com/mid-drive-kits/
I have to look into the Ultra motor, been reading good things about it.
OK Looks like Luna's s/h price is $30usd so flat rate.

Subtotal $349.95
Shipping $30.00
Tax $38.00
Total is $417.95usd for the Cyclone 3kw

The good thing with purchasing from Luna is they are an American company that buys in bulk from China and rebrands the components to the Luna brand. Luna also sells batteries, so its a one stop shop, easy returns. Please do an ES search on Luna's customer service, a sprinkling of mixed reviews but the great majority/over-all its positive. Better then any China company for sure. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from Luna! One thing is for sure, you'd be receiving your purchase(s) quicker!

You should do an ES search on the Bafang Ultra motor compared to the Cyclone 3kw. The Ultra might suit your needs!

nlhaines said:
I was looking at the Cyclone on Luna Cycle. Where is the 4kw available? Can I get it without incurring high shipping costs?
I'm not too worried about noise as long as it doesn't sound like a gas motor or anything crazy.

nlhaines · Sep 19, 2018

markz said:
No they aren't that loud, just the typical geared motor sound. I am used to direct drive hub motors which have no noise when using a Sine wave controller.

I type in Cyclone TW into the search engine to find the manufacturer of the Cyclones
The website is the same http://www.cyclone-tw.com/
I believe the TW stands for Taiwan which is 200km (124 miles) off the coast of China.

http://www.cyclone-tw.com/Coaxial.html is the 4kw and they are a very slightly larger motor then the 3kw.
To buy - http://www.cyclone-tw.com/motor.html

$270usd (clock wise shaft rotation) and $290usd (CCW)

I paid $520usd included shipping to Alberta Canada.

Lemme look at Luna's offerings...
https://lunacycle.com/mid-drive-kits/
I have to look into the Ultra motor, been reading good things about it.
OK Looks like Luna's s/h price is $30usd so flat rate.

Subtotal $349.95
Shipping $30.00
Tax $38.00
Total is $417.95usd for the Cyclone 3kw

The good thing with purchasing from Luna is they are an American company that buys in bulk from China and rebrands the components to the Luna brand. Luna also sells batteries, so its a one stop shop, easy returns. Please do an ES search on Luna's customer service, a sprinkling of mixed reviews but the great majority/over-all its positive. Better then any China company for sure. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from Luna! One thing is for sure, you'd be receiving your purchase(s) quicker!

You should do an ES search on the Bafang Ultra motor compared to the Cyclone 3kw. The Ultra might suit your needs!

nlhaines said:

I was looking at the Cyclone on Luna Cycle. Where is the 4kw available? Can I get it without incurring high shipping costs?
I'm not too worried about noise as long as it doesn't sound like a gas motor or anything crazy.

Click to expand...

Don't you need a special frame to use the 4kw/coaxial version? It doesn't look like it's compatible with a typical BB shell. I believe the Bafang Ultra would also require some machining and custom mounts, right? If there's one thing I'd like to avoid it's that sort of thing. I don't mind mechanical challenges, but I am not capable of machining parts. That said, I could return the hardtail I have, get an e-bike frame, and start building from scratch.

fechter · Sep 19, 2018

Yes, the Bafang Ultra requires a custom frame. I would not recommend it as a retrofit.

I have a BBSHD and it is very quiet. Top speed on my bike is around 28mph on flat ground. This is with the stock 30A BBSHD controller. With an upgraded controller, 35mph or more is possible. One thing I really like about the BBSHD is the controller is integrated and all the wiring is nice and neat. No spaghetti hair ball of wires to hide and get damaged.

markz · Sep 19, 2018

OK maybe some miscommunication going on here. The Cyclone 4kw will fit any bicycle that will fit the Cyclone 3kw. They both have standard BB width dimensions for both their units. I fitted my 4kw onto 3 bicycles, a Townie 21D cruiser, a CityGlide Norco and a generic CCM, all had 68mm bb shell widths. The kits come with the right bb axles, but you have to measure your bb to select the right option in bb. I can tell you first hand, the Cyclone 4kw will climb anything. I was going up a 20% grade if not 25% that was 100-150 meters long with an entire load of 350lbs, maybe 375lbs. It was a beast! I rode it for 6m-1yr but I didnt like the fact people that were walking would look back when I got up to about 10-15' away.

For the Bafang Ultra, I have no clue, fetcher knows best!
Another confirmation by fechter that the BBSHD is super silent!

nlhaines said:
Don't you need a special frame to use the 4kw/coaxial version? It doesn't look like it's compatible with a typical BB shell. I believe the Bafang Ultra would also require some machining and custom mounts, right? If there's one thing I'd like to avoid it's that sort of thing. I don't mind mechanical challenges, but I am not capable of machining parts. That said, I could return the hardtail I have, get an e-bike frame, and start building from scratch.

fechter said:
Yes, the Bafang Ultra requires a custom frame. I would not recommend it as a retrofit.

I have a BBSHD and it is very quiet. Top speed on my bike is around 28mph on flat ground. This is with the stock 30A BBSHD controller. With an upgraded controller, 35mph or more is possible. One thing I really like about the BBSHD is the controller is integrated and all the wiring is nice and neat. No spaghetti hair ball of wires to hide and get damaged.

nlhaines · Sep 19, 2018

When I go to purchase anything from the cyclone-tw website I get shipping charges of 100x the price of the item....So that $469 kit doesn't fit my budget. It looks like it would be $439 shipped from Luna for the 3k kit though....not bad, though they don't include brake sensors or PAS.

markz · Sep 19, 2018

nlhaines said:
When I go to purchase anything from the cyclone-tw website I get shipping charges of 100x the price of the item....So that $469 kit doesn't fit my budget. It looks like it would be $439 shipped from Luna for the 3k kit though....not bad, though they don't include brake sensors or PAS.

I see what you are saying, I just tried it myself. My guess is, is that Cyclone-TW is out of stock and instead of just simply stating "Out of Stock" they just jack up the shipping price 1000x for the gamble jackpot of some rich drunk or dumb frock to click buy. To be honest, I do not know why they do that with shipping prices, I've seen the exact same thing on ebay.

I was simply giving you another option of a more powerful motor, if you required it. With some first hand experience of installing it and riding it. Just buy whatever you want from Luna. You will enjoy your 3kw Cyclone, no doubt about that.

Normally s/h from China would be perhaps an extra $100, a great example of that would be the BMS Battery website.

craneplaneguy · Sep 19, 2018

I ride my BBSHD bikes (two of them, one at a time) through a walkway in a tunnel under some railroad track, fairly often. Maybe 6 or 7' wide, so very "reverbatative" (?). The tires make enough noise to mask any E noise, as near as dead silent as any bike can be. I also used to ride a 350 watt hub motor powered 20" fat bike through the same tunnel, and even the fat tire noise would not over ride the whine from the rear hub motor, ( Bafang geared), I may as well had had a sign, saying, " E bike, coming through." With the BBSHD, or the BBSO2 (I also have 1 of those) no one is the wiser, they are that silent. I think I have heard the Cyclone is not so quiet....but it sounds like a progerly geared/high geared BBSHD would pretty much do what you want, maybe with a slight downgrade in your expectations, but not much. I can hit 38 mph with my one high geared BBSHD.

nlhaines · Sep 20, 2018

craneplaneguy said:
I ride my BBSHD bikes (two of them, one at a time) through a walkway in a tunnel under some railroad track, fairly often. Maybe 6 or 7' wide, so very "reverbatative" (?). The tires make enough noise to mask any E noise, as near as dead silent as any bike can be. I also used to ride a 350 watt hub motor powered 20" fat bike through the same tunnel, and even the fat tire noise would not over ride the whine from the rear hub motor, ( Bafang geared), I may as well had had a sign, saying, " E bike, coming through." With the BBSHD, or the BBSO2 (I also have 1 of those) no one is the wiser, they are that silent. I think I have heard the Cyclone is not so quiet....but it sounds like a progerly geared/high geared BBSHD would pretty much do what you want, maybe with a slight downgrade in your expectations, but not much. I can hit 38 mph with my one high geared BBSHD.

Yeah, I'm thinking I may pony up for the BBSHD, just for the ease of installation and completeness of the kit. It's an extra $400 or so, but it would probably save me hours of screwing around with electronic connectors and such.

Do you have yours "hot-rodded" to achieve 38mph or is that at 750W?

Seattle Commuter/Trail Build

nlhaines

100 W

dustNbone

10 kW

markz

100 TW

nlhaines

100 W

markz

100 TW

nlhaines

100 W

fechter

Administrator

markz

100 TW

nlhaines

100 W

markz

100 TW

craneplaneguy

10 kW

nlhaines

100 W

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