Looking for robust 24'' rim

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
hias9   100 W

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Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by hias9 » Sep 20 2018 4:53pm

At the moment I am using a MXUS v3 3k 3T inside a 17'' MC rim, however I don't like the high weight of the MC rim + tire.

My next project will be a bike for offroad use with a MXUS 3k inside the rear wheel. Are there any 24'' rims which can handle the forces?

markz   100 GW

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by markz » Sep 20 2018 5:17pm

Anything from this website
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicy ... om_size=61
The Crystalyte 24" rim is good, I originally laced that onto my mxus 3kw v2, abused the heck out of it, bent the rim wall from hitting curbs too fast. I bought a second Crystalyte rim, because I love it so much. It has deep double wall, which is great for us ebikers. You can even use ebikes.ca spoke calculator and order spokes from them as well. I usually go with double butted 13/14 guage.

ONLY TWO LEFT!!!!!!!!

24" 31mm Wide Downhill Crystalyte Rim - http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicy ... 24j31.html
ERD of 477
XF40-45H is the motor for the MXUS 3kw
That rim is Clyte 24" DH
Spoke length is 1X
Left Spoke Length / Right Spoke Length
136.0 mm / 135.3 mm


Halo SAS 24
https://www.amazon.com/Halo-SAS-disc-ri ... B007WUP05G

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=93120&p=1370090&hilit=sas#p1370090
Lately, the strongest rims I've been using have been Halo SAS






hias9 wrote:
Sep 20 2018 4:53pm
At the moment I am using a MXUS v3 3k 3T inside a 17'' MC rim, however I don't like the high weight of the MC rim + tire.

My next project will be a bike for offroad use with a MXUS 3k inside the rear wheel. Are there any 24'' rims which can handle the forces?

hias9   100 W

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by hias9 » Sep 20 2018 7:18pm

Thanks for the reply!

I would like to buy the Crystalyte rim, but I did not find it in the EU.
Shipping from Canada to Germany would be $130, so I would be paying $180 for one rim.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by Chalo » Sep 20 2018 8:04pm

hias9 wrote:
Sep 20 2018 7:18pm
I would like to buy the Crystalyte rim, but I did not find it in the EU.
Shipping from Canada to Germany would be $130, so I would be paying $180 for one rim.
Lucky for you. The rims that come with Chinese hub motors are garbage. Crystalyte is not an exception.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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brumbrum   100 kW

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by brumbrum » Sep 21 2018 2:25am

hias9 wrote:
Sep 20 2018 4:53pm
At the moment I am using a MXUS v3 3k 3T inside a 17'' MC rim, however I don't like the high weight of the MC rim + tire.

My next project will be a bike for offroad use with a MXUS 3k inside the rear wheel. Are there any 24'' rims which can handle the forces?
You need a Halo SAS rim. Made for jump bikes, very wide rim that can easily take a 3” tire. Rim is nicely matched with 3” Halo contra tire.
My NYX and cromotor build
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74615
My LMX 161 dirt bike build
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=94074

hias9   100 W

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by hias9 » Sep 21 2018 6:31am

I have already ordered 2 SAS rims after I had seen that the Crystalytes were not available in the EU.
I only read good things about the SAS rims.

Do you think this 3'' tire will also survive high speeds (70mph+) ?

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brumbrum   100 kW

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by brumbrum » Sep 21 2018 8:54am

hias9 wrote:
Sep 21 2018 6:31am
I have already ordered 2 SAS rims after I had seen that the Crystalytes were not available in the EU.
I only read good things about the SAS rims.

Do you think this 3'' tire will also survive high speeds (70mph+) ?

I'm honestly not sure,, you'll have to let us know! if you go off-roading at 70+mph, i'm sure you are dressed like robocop and an unexpected blow out shouldnt phase you :wink:
My NYX and cromotor build
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74615
My LMX 161 dirt bike build
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=94074

hias9   100 W

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by hias9 » Sep 21 2018 11:42am

70mph+ would be on the street ;-)

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brumbrum   100 kW

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by brumbrum » Sep 21 2018 2:18pm

hias9 wrote:
Sep 21 2018 11:42am
70mph+ would be on the street ;-)
Haah, i thought it sounded a bit bravado. :D
My NYX and cromotor build
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74615
My LMX 161 dirt bike build
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=94074

markz   100 GW

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by markz » Sep 21 2018 7:05pm

Bicycle tires are not meant for those speeds.

You'd need motorcycle/motorbike/scooter type DOT rated tires, or what Schwalbe called "E-bike Ready 50" which still isnt meant for those speeds.

https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/e-bikes
Non really stick out as far as names go, other then perhaps maybe the Marathon GT365 or Deluxe HS420 (The Marathon Deluxe has ECE-R75 certification making it suitable for faster E-bikes.) they both look good for protection and durability ratings. My guess is the HS stands for High Speed.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by Chalo » Sep 21 2018 9:27pm

He wants motorcycle speed but not motorcycle weight. He'd better get used to the idea of aircraft maintenance.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by MadRhino » Sep 21 2018 11:52pm

Chalo wrote:
Sep 21 2018 9:27pm
He wants motorcycle speed but not motorcycle weight. He'd better get used to the idea of aircraft maintenance.
Yep. Performance has a cost in maintenance. It is satisfying to do better and lighter, but one need to be conscious and disciplined.

To the OP. Germany is among the best places to find a variety of rims and tires at a good price. See Classic-Cycle.de for this one:
https://classic-cycle.com/all/923/alu-r ... atte?c=414

... or Sun Double Track on ebay
https://m.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzei ... rack/c0-l0
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
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exe   10 W

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by exe » Sep 22 2018 12:28am

What would be an acceptable safe speed limit when using bicycle tires?

dustNbone   10 kW

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by dustNbone » Sep 22 2018 12:34am

Some bicycle tires are a lot safer to go fast on than others. If you want to go 70 mph on the street, I suggest something with a smooth tread, no knobs. Correctly inflated. Then you might not die.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by Chalo » Sep 22 2018 12:53am

dustNbone wrote:
Sep 22 2018 12:34am
Some bicycle tires are a lot safer to go fast on than others. If you want to go 70 mph on the street, I suggest something with a smooth tread, no knobs. Correctly inflated. Then you might not die.
Let's just say it in unison: "Maxxis Hookworm 24 x 2.5". That's the only one I'd try, if I wanted to try 70mph on bicycle with 24" tires. Which I do not.
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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by markz » Sep 22 2018 3:41am

hias9 wrote:
Sep 21 2018 11:42am
70mph+ would be on the street ;-)
however I don't like the high weight of the MC rim + tire
I would want the safety of MC rims front and rear along with MC tires with those 70mph+ (115kph+) speeds.

Another thing to mention is that bicycle brakes are not engineered to stop you at those speeds.
or the bicycle frame
or the fork

Imagine going 70mph+ and some oil from the road splashed up onto your brake pads.
You will not have any braking at all.

or a pothole
or train tracks
or even an angular cut in the road for say paving
or grooved road prep for paving

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by MadRhino » Sep 22 2018 8:36am

markz wrote:
Sep 22 2018 3:41am
hias9 wrote:
Sep 21 2018 11:42am
70mph+ would be on the street ;-)
however I don't like the high weight of the MC rim + tire
I would want the safety of MC rims front and rear along with MC tires with those 70mph+ (115kph+) speeds.

Another thing to mention is that bicycle brakes are not engineered to stop you at those speeds.
or the bicycle frame
or the fork

Imagine going 70mph+ and some oil from the road splashed up onto your brake pads.
You will not have any braking at all.

or a pothole
or train tracks
or even an angular cut in the road for say paving
or grooved road prep for paving
That is typical of those who never did ride a good bike, nor a bad motorcycle.

Weight has an advantage only cruising on the highway. Safety of bigger and heavier is an illusion.

I stop shorter than a GP motorcycle, handle better than a racing MX, using only bicycle components. Lighter weight is a neat advantage in performance, but lighter weight is coming with responsibilities. Lightweight components have a short life and require perfect tuning. One need to inspect, tune and maintain his bike with strict consciousness and constancy.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by MadRhino » Sep 22 2018 8:54am

Chalo wrote:
Sep 22 2018 12:53am
dustNbone wrote:
Sep 22 2018 12:34am
Some bicycle tires are a lot safer to go fast on than others. If you want to go 70 mph on the street, I suggest something with a smooth tread, no knobs. Correctly inflated. Then you might not die.
Let's just say it in unison: "Maxxis Hookworm 24 x 2.5". That's the only one I'd try, if I wanted to try 70mph on bicycle with 24" tires. Which I do not.
Well, I do it. Hookworms are good only on ideal conditions. I find thicker tires with deeper thread much better. Different tires for different conditions and temp. Replacing them before they get weak. That is the way to safely speed on bicycle tires.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by MadRhino » Sep 22 2018 9:03am

exe wrote:
Sep 22 2018 12:28am
What would be an acceptable safe speed limit when using bicycle tires?
The DH speed world record is 170 MPH, and during this annual competition that’s been held for 2 decades, it happened only once that a tire failed.

There are many bicycle tires that are up to the task, but they don’t last. Speeding on bicycle tires is much more expansive, in time and money. But, it can be safe if you never postpone, never ride a tire that is weakened.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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brumbrum   100 kW

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by brumbrum » Sep 22 2018 1:34pm

hias9 wrote:
Sep 20 2018 4:53pm
At the moment I am using a MXUS v3 3k 3T inside a 17'' MC rim, however I don't like the high weight of the MC rim + tire.

My next project will be a bike for offroad use with a MXUS 3k inside the rear wheel. Are there any 24'' rims which can handle the forces?
I don't see why weight is such an issue if the bike is for road use. I would understand more why you would want a more agile bike if it were for offroad which is what you first suggested. I take is that for 70mph on a heavy mxus motor you must have a big battery with high voltage so the bike is likely fairly heavy too... So rim and tyre savings on front and back may save about 6kg, and thats on both wheels. Will the bike be going long distances? Or is it for drag racing?
My NYX and cromotor build
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74615
My LMX 161 dirt bike build
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=94074

ebike11   100 kW

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by ebike11 » Sep 23 2018 11:11am

hias9 wrote:
Sep 20 2018 4:53pm
At the moment I am using a MXUS v3 3k 3T inside a 17'' MC rim, however I don't like the high weight of the MC rim + tire.

My next project will be a bike for offroad use with a MXUS 3k inside the rear wheel. Are there any 24'' rims which can handle the forces?
What speeds are u reaching with that mxus on 17"?

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by MadRhino » Sep 23 2018 11:47am

Wheel weight has little effect on top speed, but it has a dramatic effect on acceleration and braking. The larger the wheel, the more the momentum effect does slow down acceleration and braking performance. It does affect handling too, weight alone does, but wheel weight has a greater effect than overall bike weight. Wheel weight also does affect suspension, to the point that shocks need to be modified or replaced with bigger.

Weight in general, has an escalade effect. More weight does require more watts and sometimes heavier components that require even more watts, and more watts does mean a bigger battery that does add to the weight...
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

hias9   100 W

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by hias9 » Sep 23 2018 1:42pm

With the 17'' MC wheel I am doing 70mph with a 22S battery and 100amps of field weakening (unlocked Sabvoton). The bike without the battery is less than 30 kilograms. Usual 22S Lipo setup is about 7 kilograms and in the backpack. For more range I use 18S2P sometimes.

markz   100 GW

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by markz » Sep 23 2018 1:55pm

You can play with this
http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html
and see what speeds you get.


You can also play with this
http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/trip-simulator.html
Left side, near the bottom there is INPUT TYPE click on Google Maps
Left click Zoom out which is the negative sign below the positive sign
Using the hand icon, move to your neck of the world.
Right click starting point, right click ending point, click X to close
It will automatically do a route for you but you just move the blue line to where your route is.


Speed is determined by
A) The "Turn Count" of the motor
B) Your controllers ability to handle battery voltage, like 36V versus 72V as an example. Some cont's have 60V limit, others dont.
C) Battery Voltage

A high rpm/voltage is a low turn count motor and they can handle more current (Amps) for longer periods of time because they have shorter and thicker wires that are called windings. On the opposite end, a low rpm/voltage is a high turn count motor which has longer and thinner windings that does not handle as much current or for the length of time as the first low turn count motor.

Lace that [high rpm/voltage is a low turn count motor] into a smaller diameter wheel means that your speed decreases but your torque increases: That is why you go with a [high rpm/voltage is a low turn count motor] doing it this way also means everything will run cooler. Your battery will require more "Discharge Current" when taking off.
http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.ht ... r_b=MX4506

Take a look at your requirements and see what best suits your needs.
Direct Drive motors have no moving parts and are quiet and completely silent with a sinewave controller, but when no power is applied to the motor there is noticeable drag like riding with a flat tire. But you apply even the very slightest of throttle, say 1% throttle there is no drag until you run out of battery power then there is drag.

Geared motors have moving gears and can be heard. You can strip the gears. When no power is applied there is no drag, this is called freewheel. People around you can hear the noise of the gears, but its not that loud. Depends on the motor I guess.

Mid Drive motors have geared motors, uses your chain, crank, r.der., r.cassette/f.w. so they wear out faster then normally. Great for hill climbing, stop and go traffic, heavy cargo.


ebike11 wrote:
Sep 23 2018 11:11am
What speeds are u reaching with that mxus on 17"?

hias9   100 W

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Re: Looking for robust 24'' rim

Post by hias9 » Sep 23 2018 2:16pm

The top speed shown in the simulator is without any field weakening. It will be around 55mph for a 17'' mxus 3k 3T with a fully charged 22S battery.
It would be cool if the simulator would also support calculations with field weakening.

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