Umm.. how ? The closest i can see is the Luna KHS for $3200 plus shipping.
Both Specialized and Giant are proprietary - infact every single component from the battery to the motor, switches, displays etc on them is proprietary. So if Proprietary is bad, Specialized and Giant are the worse choice. You HAVE to buy everything from them.
Which is basically what the Juggernaut is.Go to your local bicycle store and buy a bike you like, take it for a test ride and see how you like it. Then buy a ebike kit.
However, its a much wiser option to buy a used bicycle in good running order or that requires an easy fix, next is to buy a simple electric bicycle kit and install it.
Exactly. What WOULD you do if you are locked into the Specialized or Giant bike, and 3 years from now they start charging double for older tech batteries? And at that point you have no choice because no one else makes them anymore ...With your proprietary ebike, what would you do when your battery no longer works due to malfunction out of warrant or the battery has aged and no longer has a viable range, well you'd have to buy their overpriced battery. Controller doesnt work and an expensive controller if, thats right, if they are still available.
Which is exactly the Juggernaut is.If money and laziness is of no concern to you, then go ahead do whatever you want to do.
You can purchase a much better ebike with longer range for the same money.
In the e-bike space, millions in research doesnt translate to anything super big. Everyone is using the same motor - Shimano or Bosch or something. Their biggest benefit is a strong dealer and repair network.Gotta realize that companies like Specialized and Giant etc have spent billions on research and development over the span of their incorporation. A small company building ebikes with proprietary parts, is a no go! It is really that simple.
If the ST1 is using the UltraMotor, then based on the wheel/motor I have here, it appears well designed and constructed.
A DD (not geared) hubmotor can be more reliable than middrive, because it has less moving parts. All it's torque simply goes out thru the spokes to the rim and tire to the ground, and reacts against the frame in whatever way it's mounted via the axle. (most of them use axle flats, which require torque arms to prevent damage to the dropouts, but some have built in torque arms or other torque transfer methods, that prevent that possibility.
I see you haven't shopped around.Kitaro1999 wrote: ↑Oct 11, 2018 10:09 amUmm.. how ? The closest i can see is the Luna KHS for $3200 plus shipping.
1. Reasonable bike with quality components is atleast $1500. Don't give me the craigslist route - Frame is probably ok, but the rest of the components are shit, and should be replaced. At that point you might as well buy the new bike.
2. BBSHD + battery = $1200-$1500 depending on where you get them from, and battery capacity.
3. Assembly (if not doing yourself) is $100 - $150.
Biktrix or Stromer may be a tad expensive, but for the build quality, warranty, etc.. they are within striking distance of what you can build yourself.
Install time for a BBSxx mid drive kit for me is under an hour. I consider myself pretty skilled but my time is not worth several hundred dollars an hour.
I like DIY as much as the other guy. I just dont think you are getting the point of the discussion. Either you don't read, or have an urge to be appreciated about your experience. You are clearly great at building bikes - no doubt. That bike you have looks sick af ! My point is that a typical buyer isn't. OP's question is about Stromer versus Biktrix and you are more concerned about DIY versus OTS.neptronix wrote: ↑Oct 12, 2018 9:28 amAs for the other end of the spectrum, you see this bike here? the total parts cost was $1900. It has a 48v 25AH battery, 8000W of power, a 2001 Turner O2 frame ( paid $250, original price was $4000 ), 203mm tektro hydraulic brake in the front ( bought on discount ~$75 ), air suspension on both sides, 2000w rated motor wheel that cost, um.. $250 etc etc.
Top speed was 60mph and it could sustain 40mph indefinitely and climb 5% grades for short periods of time at 50-55mph.. range at 20mph was well over 100 miles due to the motor being literally the most efficient ebike hub you can buy.
Learn how to turn a wrench, comparison shop, solder, and use a multimeter.. and you will build things that make big companies blush. That's what this forum is here for. Once you build the thing yourself, you won't need a warranty because you know how everything works. You won't be at 1 company's mercy for parts later down the line because you built your bike with all standardized and interchangeable parts.
DIY is way, way, way better.
I would go for the juggernaut as well. I like Stromer and the ride cannot be compared, but IMO with hills and stuff, you are better off with an open platform like Biktrix. the only thing proprietary is the battery - just buy another one spare in case you ride in cold weather.Deafcat wrote: ↑Oct 12, 2018 4:02 pmJuggernaut Ultra is one hell of a bike for the price, considering the powerful mid-drive and fairly good components. The Stromer is on a whole other level of quality (being euro-made, as opposed to taiwan-made), but the Juggernaut definitely takes the cake in the following categories:
This post was not about me. It's about what is possible and what it costs to build something with better performance and range, more serviceability, and more affordability than a prebuilt bike. Many people have built things far greater than anything i've touched. My builds are only slightly greater than average.Kitaro1999 wrote: ↑Oct 15, 2018 11:40 amI like DIY as much as the other guy. I just dont think you are getting the point of the discussion. Either you don't read, or have an urge to be appreciated about your experience. You are clearly great at building bikes - no doubt. That bike you have looks sick af ! My point is that a typical buyer isn't. OP's question is about Stromer versus Biktrix and you are more concerned about DIY versus OTS.
Anyhow. Glad that you built something for $1900 in components only - more power to you. If you like DIY, help OP with the right components, don't try to argue with me about the virtues of DIY and how cool your personal bike building skills are.
Agreed neptronix. I think Mac motor is also a great recommendation. Do you know if there is a provider out there who sells complete mac motor ebikes ? Is the Juiced a mac motor or a bafang one ? I am not sure if they are the same or similar.neptronix wrote: ↑Oct 15, 2018 11:45 amThe G310 probably cannot handle that unless you volt up and gear down ( this would require 20" wheels and a phaserunner to handle the high eRPM that results ). I'd imagine it can do 25mph continuous ( check the ebikes.ca motor simulator ) all day, but only short spurts to 30mph..
Dude, you are a hero. I know.. sorry if I got carried away. I read your post history earlier - clearly know your stuff.neptronix wrote: ↑Oct 15, 2018 11:51 amThis post was not about me. It's about what is possible and what it costs to build something with better performance and range, more serviceability, and more affordability than a prebuilt bike. Many people have built things far greater than anything i've touched. My builds are only slightly greater than average.
I can obviously read. I am the guy who does surgery on the server that runs this site, and there's no room for error in a linux server . We are a DIY evehicle building forum though, so don't be shocked when someone here tries to nudge someone in the direction of building something better than stock.