Stromer ST1X vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000 vs DIY

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sisachosudo   10 mW

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Stromer ST1X vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000 vs DIY

Post by sisachosudo » Oct 11 2018 5:58am

Hi all,

due to us moving to a new (but more distant from my office) home, I am on the need of increasing my commute speed. As a bike lover, the ebike is my only option.

The route will be 14km with a couple of challenging hills (2km at 8 - 10%). I am doing it now with a normal bike and even enjoying the way but I spend too much time in the process of cycling, shower, working, cycling, shower... home.

Here are my main options:

A.- Stomer ST1 X: 800W CYRO Drive hub engine, 618 Wh battery for a price equivalent to 5'500 USD
Link: https://www.stromerbike.com/en_CH/e-bikes/st1-x.html

B.- Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra 1000: Mid-drive motor Bafang 1000W, 960 Wh (48V 20Ah) battery for a price of 4'600 USD (shipment and taxes included). I would take it with normal street wheels (27" x 3), not the fat wheels.
Link: https://www.biktrix.com/collections/bik ... 8354792519

Living in Europe, Switzerland, I am very concern about the warranty.
Stromer is well established here in Europe and they offer 2 years warranty (10 years in the frame) and I could walk in a shop and purchase the bike right away.
Biktrix offers me 1 year warranty in my local shop (at least I would not have to ship the bike back to USA if something fails).

Looking at the specs, the Juggernaut is much better than the ST1 X but I never saw one in the flesh. I see plenty of Stromer bikes and they are pure quality, looking like a really expensive bike attached to an engine. Sturdy, good looking and made for speed. Not making any sound even in the cobbles or bumpy roads.

What about the Juggernaut Ultra? Has anyone seen both?
I prefer the Juggernaut but the things holding me back are: Warranty, waiting after ordering and overall build quality.

Thank you for your help. I am a bit lost here.
Last edited by sisachosudo on Oct 15 2018 10:01am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by neptronix » Oct 11 2018 9:02am

Both bikes are wildly overpriced by a factor of 3 compared to something you can build in your own.
That being said, 8-10% hills? you want the bike with a mid drive. The mid drive will be less reliable, but also doesn't have the downside of potentially melting on your hill.

I don't know how well the Stromer's hub is designed. Maybe it's got proper thermal controls and is really well engineered. Maybe not. But i can tell you this.. nearly every part on that bike is going to be proprietary, so you're going to have to pay whatever Stromer is asking for replacement parts.

The bafang system probably uses fairly standard parts. In the future, you should be able to buy the replacement parts from various vendors..

We mostly build our own here, so you might not get help on which has the most reliability, etc.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

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Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by sisachosudo » Oct 11 2018 10:05am

Appreciated Neptronix.

I understood from your reply that the hub motors are more reliable than the mid drives. Why is that?

Since I discovered this forum years ago I was decided to build my own ebike but now that my commute is quite challenging I wonder if my old bike plus the hub engine-kit will be able to deal with it in a daily basis.
I don't want to spend 1500 USD to discover myself in a year or so riding a bike full of noises and struggling to keep 28mph.

This is my old bike which is 7 years old:

Image

At least it has hydraulic brakes and front suspension. If you believe it can handle it I would lean more and more towards the own building with a rear hub engine and a battery attached to the bottle screws.

Thank you!

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Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by Kitaro1999 » Oct 11 2018 10:09am

neptronix wrote:
Oct 11 2018 9:02am
Both bikes are wildly overpriced by a factor of 3 compared to something you can build in your own.
Umm.. how ? The closest i can see is the Luna KHS for $3200 plus shipping.
1. Reasonable bike with quality components is atleast $1500. Don't give me the craigslist route - Frame is probably ok, but the rest of the components are shit, and should be replaced. At that point you might as well buy the new bike.
2. BBSHD + battery = $1200-$1500 depending on where you get them from, and battery capacity.
3. Assembly (if not doing yourself) is $100 - $150.

Biktrix or Stromer may be a tad expensive, but for the build quality, warranty, etc.. they are within striking distance of what you can build yourself.

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Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by 2old » Oct 11 2018 10:13am

I've had the opportunity to ride the ST1X for a long period of time and The ST2 (AIR, the $10K model) for one long ride. Both were superb as one would expect of a bike designed in Switzerland with the motor constructed in Germany. I think the ST1X would be far preferable if it can handle whatever hills you have which you need to discover for yourself if they'll allow a test ride. The ST1X that I rode could easily cruise at 30 mph (180 pound rider, flat terrain, no wind). BTW, I don't consider the ST1X overpriced considering what you get with a dealer nearby, and what you need in reliability.
Last edited by 2old on Oct 12 2018 3:18pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by markz » Oct 11 2018 12:16pm

Proprietary is not good at all.

Go to your local bicycle store and buy a bike you like, take it for a test ride and see how you like it. Then buy a ebike kit.

However, its a much wiser option to buy a used bicycle in good running order or that requires an easy fix, next is to buy a simple electric bicycle kit and install it.

With your proprietary ebike, what would you do when your battery no longer works due to malfunction out of warrant or the battery has aged and no longer has a viable range, well you'd have to buy their overpriced battery. Controller doesnt work and an expensive controller if, thats right, if they are still available.

If money and laziness is of no concern to you, then go ahead do whatever you want to do.
You can purchase a much better ebike with longer range for the same money.

Gotta realize that companies like Specialized and Giant etc have spent billions on research and development over the span of their incorporation. A small company building ebikes with proprietary parts, is a no go! It is really that simple.

Mid Drives have geared motor and are wonderful for hills because you can use the bicycle drive train like a transmission.
Direct Drives have no gears so they are way more durable and reliable.

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Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by Kitaro1999 » Oct 11 2018 12:47pm

markz wrote:
Oct 11 2018 12:16pm
Proprietary is not good at all.
Both Specialized and Giant are proprietary - infact every single component from the battery to the motor, switches, displays etc on them is proprietary. So if Proprietary is bad, Specialized and Giant are the worse choice. You HAVE to buy everything from them.
Go to your local bicycle store and buy a bike you like, take it for a test ride and see how you like it. Then buy a ebike kit.
However, its a much wiser option to buy a used bicycle in good running order or that requires an easy fix, next is to buy a simple electric bicycle kit and install it.
Which is basically what the Juggernaut is.
With your proprietary ebike, what would you do when your battery no longer works due to malfunction out of warrant or the battery has aged and no longer has a viable range, well you'd have to buy their overpriced battery. Controller doesnt work and an expensive controller if, thats right, if they are still available.
Exactly. What WOULD you do if you are locked into the Specialized or Giant bike, and 3 years from now they start charging double for older tech batteries? And at that point you have no choice because no one else makes them anymore ...
If money and laziness is of no concern to you, then go ahead do whatever you want to do.
You can purchase a much better ebike with longer range for the same money.
Which is exactly the Juggernaut is.
Gotta realize that companies like Specialized and Giant etc have spent billions on research and development over the span of their incorporation. A small company building ebikes with proprietary parts, is a no go! It is really that simple.
In the e-bike space, millions in research doesnt translate to anything super big. Everyone is using the same motor - Shimano or Bosch or something. Their biggest benefit is a strong dealer and repair network.

The "proprietary Juggernaut " battery is available on Alibaba for $500 (you don't have to buy it from biktrix). If I were to make a recommendation, I would say, stock up on them by end of next year once the prices fall, and guarantee yourself a good 6 year run.

I am not for Juggernaut or Specialized or any brand in particular. I am trying to get to the heart of your argument, and turns out you have no idea what you are talking about. It is fair to say everyone has their own strengths - but your line of argument makes no sense.

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Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by Voltron » Oct 11 2018 3:02pm

From the complaints I've seen so far, nobody has spare parts for the Ultra motors yet as they're all going to new production, so you could be stuck for a while if you really need it as a reliable commuter.

Some of the choice involves how close your nearest dealer is for the different brands, as that can change the time delay getting on the road again.

For what its worth, its really hard to beat a barebones system that doesn't have much to go wrong, or get stolen. You can build yourself a kit off of Amazon these days, and if something fails get a replacement part within days. The more you do the same route every day, you don't need a lot of range estimators, displays, or really much of anything besides a comfy position and reliability. Spend the money on a great battery... the rest of the stuff is just bell and whistles usually.

All of the proprietary systems are great, but so so incredibly hard to diagnose with all their enclosed wiring, hard to probe power connections, impossible to replace displays etc. Some of them, the warranty isn't hardly any better than random mail order stuff, and can cost an arm and a leg paying shop rate while they track down your problem.

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Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by amberwolf » Oct 11 2018 4:09pm

neptronix wrote:
Oct 11 2018 9:02am


I don't know how well the Stromer's hub is designed.
If the ST1 is using the UltraMotor, then based on the wheel/motor I have here, it appears well designed and constructed.

However: the controller in mine is built into the hub, and would be subject to all the heat generated by the motor. It does have a thermal sensor in there that should prevent damage to it, but it'll still get as hot as the motor, and it has no direct heat path out for the controller heat either.
sisachosudo wrote:
Oct 11 2018 10:05am
I understood from your reply that the hub motors are more reliable than the mid drives. Why is that?
A DD (not geared) hubmotor can be more reliable than middrive, because it has less moving parts. All it's torque simply goes out thru the spokes to the rim and tire to the ground, and reacts against the frame in whatever way it's mounted via the axle. (most of them use axle flats, which require torque arms to prevent damage to the dropouts, but some have built in torque arms or other torque transfer methods, that prevent that possibility.

Any middrive has to send all its torque thru the chain, sprockets, and freewheel pawls, so every single one of the parts of each one of those things is a potential failure point. Many middrives also have internal gearing that is yet another PFP.

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Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by neptronix » Oct 12 2018 9:28am

Kitaro1999 wrote:
Oct 11 2018 10:09am
neptronix wrote:
Oct 11 2018 9:02am
Both bikes are wildly overpriced by a factor of 3 compared to something you can build in your own.
Umm.. how ? The closest i can see is the Luna KHS for $3200 plus shipping.
1. Reasonable bike with quality components is atleast $1500. Don't give me the craigslist route - Frame is probably ok, but the rest of the components are shit, and should be replaced. At that point you might as well buy the new bike.
2. BBSHD + battery = $1200-$1500 depending on where you get them from, and battery capacity.
3. Assembly (if not doing yourself) is $100 - $150.

Biktrix or Stromer may be a tad expensive, but for the build quality, warranty, etc.. they are within striking distance of what you can build yourself.
I see you haven't shopped around.

Yes, i buy used bikes. What's wrong with that? i've bought bikes on craigslist/KSL/ebay that were 100% functional for 1/3rd-1/5th of the cost of brand new. We're talking Giant, Specialized, Trek, etc. A lot of people buy bikes and let them collect dust in their garages and sell them for nothing. Sometimes they need a brake or derailleur adjustment or a new $25 part. Break out a screwdriver and a hex key wrench and put 15 minutes into it and it's ready to ride.

The best bikes have busted rear wheels.. who cares? you're replacing the rear wheel with a $150-$500 electric hub motor wheel.

Recently i bought a brand new Montague roadbike off bikesdirect for $350. Aluminum frame, carbon fork, Shimano component set that's a few steps above walmart. 24lbs.. the only bad part is that the front shifter is a bit imprecise. That's a $20-$50 upgrade. OK, now i have $400 roadbike that is what.. 2lbs heavier than a $4000 one? why would i care when i'm doubling my human power? :)

The motor i'm putting on is a $125 shipped Xiongda YTW-06 with a dual reduction drive inside.. comes in at 3lbs. Using a small 48v battery that cost $300.. $50 controller.. the whole build will be under $1000 and will be lighter and a bit faster than most electric roadbikes on the market today..

If you think $1200-$1500 is the minimum entry point for a motor kit and battery, you haven't shopped around at all. Did you know that lunacycle is not the only ebike parts vendor out there? :mrgreen:
20150919_105617.jpg
As for the other end of the spectrum, you see this bike here? the total parts cost was $1900. It has a 48v 25AH battery, 8000W of power, a 2001 Turner O2 frame ( paid $250, original price was $4000 ), 203mm tektro hydraulic brake in the front ( bought on discount ~$75 ), air suspension on both sides, 2000w rated motor wheel that cost, um.. $250 etc etc.

Top speed was 60mph and it could sustain 40mph indefinitely and climb 5% grades for short periods of time at 50-55mph.. range at 20mph was well over 100 miles due to the motor being literally the most efficient ebike hub you can buy.

Learn how to turn a wrench, comparison shop, solder, and use a multimeter.. and you will build things that make big companies blush. That's what this forum is here for. Once you build the thing yourself, you won't need a warranty because you know how everything works. You won't be at 1 company's mercy for parts later down the line because you built your bike with all standardized and interchangeable parts.

DIY is way, way, way better.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by 2old » Oct 12 2018 11:00am

The OP asked whether the ST1, with a local dealer, or Juggernaut, without, was the better choice, and I reasoned the original, which seemed superb in every aspect when I rode it, was superior. I've had a YESCOM 1000w, 48V conversion with 52V battery (from the hated Luna Cycle) which cost about $600 (plus donor bike) for three+ years, and it's been perfect for errands, but not everyone is looking for the cheapest solution, and I think if one can afford it, the Stromer is excellent.

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Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by Deafcat » Oct 12 2018 4:02pm

Juggernaut Ultra is one hell of a bike for the price, considering the powerful mid-drive and fairly good components. The Stromer is on a whole other level of quality (being euro-made, as opposed to taiwan-made), but the Juggernaut definitely takes the cake in the following categories:

-most powerful torque-sensing motor on the market
-very common battery pack format (reention dorado 48V, easy to buy more packs in different sizes)
-Bafang is easy to reprogram and modify
-everything on the bike is easy to modify, it's all industry standard bits

If you want to pay extra for a very refined bike, and don't intend to make changes, and don't expect to buy too many parts for it, Stromer is a good ride... But most enthusiasts will tell you, the Stromers aren't really worth the money. They are good but not great for "cost-to-fun" ratio. Biktrix on the other hand, from first hand experience, have excellent cost to fun ratio, and good, direct customer service.

For the record, I'm also buying a Juggernaut ultra at end of this month. I have bought several other Biktrix bikes too, and ride one daily to work (no component failures or any issues in the past 2000km since I got this one).

PS, it's true that DIY-build will save a few dollars, but if you include your time... you break even. I prefer to ride a working bike home from the shop, personally.

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Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by markz » Oct 12 2018 8:38pm

I built an 500W ebike for a friend. $200cdn for the kit. $50 for used power tool batteries in 36V 9Ah. Used his own bike, so $250. If he had more money I would have put him into a Leaf 1500W kit with a 24" wheel laced by a local pro all for extra torque, 48 or 60V battery. $300 kit, and a decent seller of batteries on Aliexpress/Alibaba like OSN or UPP., probably a g-note.

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Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by dustNbone » Oct 12 2018 8:52pm

Deafcat wrote:
Oct 12 2018 4:02pm

PS, it's true that DIY-build will save a few dollars, but if you include your time... you break even. I prefer to ride a working bike home from the shop, personally.
Install time for a BBSxx mid drive kit for me is under an hour. I consider myself pretty skilled but my time is not worth several hundred dollars an hour.

This statement implies that ebike makers assemble them for no profit, and that doesn't make any sense at all.

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Re: Stromer ST1X vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000 vs DIY

Post by sisachosudo » Oct 15 2018 4:55am

Thank you for the debate guys.

Honestly, never paid too much attention to this "buy locally to limit the risks" and never had problems. But recently, my expensive mobile phone bought from a huge Chinese supplier broke down and I am going through a nightmare trying to communicate with them. That's why I thought maybe is worthy to step into a shop, pay around 30-40% more than what I would pay online and walk out with the Stromer.

After some deep research, though, it seems like the Stromer will be a very overpriced option. Their bikes are pure quality but maybe not worthy to pay more than double to get less power.

A.- DIY pack:
  • Golden Pie (1000W): 425 USD
    Wheel built: 60 USD
    840wh battery (48v x 17.5ah GA cells): 600 USD
    New brakes: 100 USD
    Shipping and taxes: 650 USD
    Throttle, Torque arms, Charger: 120 USD
TOTAL: approx. 2'000 USD with 1 year warranty in a local shop of my choice.


B.- Juggernaut Ultra 1000: approx. 3'500 USD with 1000W mid-drive motor and 900wh (48V - 20Ah) battery.

C.- Stromer: approx. 4'600 USD with 500W DD motor and 814wh battery.
With 2 years warranty period, 10 years on the frame and the battery will hold more than 75% of its capacity after 2 years.
It comes with more extras than a Swiss-knife: Regenarative braking, phone connectivity, buit-in GPS (they claim that as an average, they can recover/find 95% of the stolen Stromers), good braking power and I am sure the built quality will be far better than my DIY pack.

My main issue is the motor. Do I need the extra 500W? How do you feel the difference? I don't mind slowing down while climbing and I intend to pedal a lot.

Thank you guys.
Last edited by sisachosudo on Oct 15 2018 10:01am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by neptronix » Oct 15 2018 9:00am

You can do a cheaper motor than that. The magic pie is an okay motor, but it sounds like you don't really need the power or expense..
Honestly, for a lower power design, i'd go with a geared motor. Grin technologies is selling the Bafang G310, and it's a motor that's pretty inexpensive AND very light for the power it puts out. I'd pair that with a controller and throttle from grin, and a battery from em3ev.

Even a "German engineered" bike is mostly a collection of Chinese parts. Bosch does not make their own motors - they farm that out to a company in China who does high end stator production.
You pay a premium for them to deal with China for you. You can do this yourself with a little street smarts. :)
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
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Re: Stromer ST1X vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000 vs DIY

Post by sisachosudo » Oct 15 2018 10:45am

Thanks Neptronix,

I did not intend to go for a low power design. I want to go fast for commuting, being able to keep around 30-32 mph for around 40-50min. and avoid the risk of frying the motor. Do you believe that the Bafang G310 could handle that?
I found the LEAF which seems like a good option as well.

Is there any particular reasoning you would opt for a geared motor rather than a not geared one?

Still, cannot take away the Stromer and its design away from my head :oops:

Thanks!

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Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by Kitaro1999 » Oct 15 2018 11:40am

neptronix wrote:
Oct 12 2018 9:28am
As for the other end of the spectrum, you see this bike here? the total parts cost was $1900. It has a 48v 25AH battery, 8000W of power, a 2001 Turner O2 frame ( paid $250, original price was $4000 ), 203mm tektro hydraulic brake in the front ( bought on discount ~$75 ), air suspension on both sides, 2000w rated motor wheel that cost, um.. $250 etc etc.

Top speed was 60mph and it could sustain 40mph indefinitely and climb 5% grades for short periods of time at 50-55mph.. range at 20mph was well over 100 miles due to the motor being literally the most efficient ebike hub you can buy.

Learn how to turn a wrench, comparison shop, solder, and use a multimeter.. and you will build things that make big companies blush. That's what this forum is here for. Once you build the thing yourself, you won't need a warranty because you know how everything works. You won't be at 1 company's mercy for parts later down the line because you built your bike with all standardized and interchangeable parts.

DIY is way, way, way better.
I like DIY as much as the other guy. I just dont think you are getting the point of the discussion. Either you don't read, or have an urge to be appreciated about your experience. You are clearly great at building bikes - no doubt. That bike you have looks sick af ! My point is that a typical buyer isn't. OP's question is about Stromer versus Biktrix and you are more concerned about DIY versus OTS.

Anyhow. Glad that you built something for $1900 in components only - more power to you. If you like DIY, help OP with the right components, don't try to argue with me about the virtues of DIY and how cool your personal bike building skills are.

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Re: Stromer ST1X vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000 vs DIY

Post by neptronix » Oct 15 2018 11:45am

The G310 probably cannot handle that unless you volt up and gear down ( this would require 20" wheels and a phaserunner to handle the high eRPM that results ). I'd imagine it can do 25mph continuous ( check the ebikes.ca motor simulator ) all day, but only short spurts to 30mph..

A MAC motor would do exactly what you're looking for in a 26+ wheel. It can do 32mph all day long without missing a beat. It's rated for 1000w continuous but for the latest version of the motor, i'd say 1000w is an overly conservative rating.
It's also 10lbs versus the magic pie at 16lbs.

Why geared? DD motors are heavy. If you don't need the extra power they can push, they're a waste. Lower weight/smaller DDs usually have sucky efficiency and power. One exception is grin technologies' custom machined 9C motor.. i think they call it the all axle motor or something.. but they only sell a front motor version, which is a bad place to put a motor wheel for many reasons.

DD is where you wanna go if your power requirements are 35mph top speed continuously and beyond.

When you have a flat tire, and can pop off a 3-10lb geared motor instead of a 10-32lb DD motor.. you'll thank yourself :)
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

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Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by Kitaro1999 » Oct 15 2018 11:48am

Deafcat wrote:
Oct 12 2018 4:02pm
Juggernaut Ultra is one hell of a bike for the price, considering the powerful mid-drive and fairly good components. The Stromer is on a whole other level of quality (being euro-made, as opposed to taiwan-made), but the Juggernaut definitely takes the cake in the following categories:
I would go for the juggernaut as well. I like Stromer and the ride cannot be compared, but IMO with hills and stuff, you are better off with an open platform like Biktrix. the only thing proprietary is the battery - just buy another one spare in case you ride in cold weather.

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Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by neptronix » Oct 15 2018 11:51am

Kitaro1999 wrote:
Oct 15 2018 11:40am
I like DIY as much as the other guy. I just dont think you are getting the point of the discussion. Either you don't read, or have an urge to be appreciated about your experience. You are clearly great at building bikes - no doubt. That bike you have looks sick af ! My point is that a typical buyer isn't. OP's question is about Stromer versus Biktrix and you are more concerned about DIY versus OTS.

Anyhow. Glad that you built something for $1900 in components only - more power to you. If you like DIY, help OP with the right components, don't try to argue with me about the virtues of DIY and how cool your personal bike building skills are.
This post was not about me. It's about what is possible and what it costs to build something with better performance and range, more serviceability, and more affordability than a prebuilt bike. Many people have built things far greater than anything i've touched. My builds are only slightly greater than average.

I can obviously read. I am the guy who does surgery on the server that runs this site, and there's no room for error in a linux server :lol:. We are a DIY evehicle building forum though, so don't be shocked when someone here tries to nudge someone in the direction of building something better than stock. :)
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

Kitaro1999   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 48
Joined: Oct 25 2017 4:27am

Re: Stromer ST1X vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000 vs DIY

Post by Kitaro1999 » Oct 15 2018 11:52am

neptronix wrote:
Oct 15 2018 11:45am
The G310 probably cannot handle that unless you volt up and gear down ( this would require 20" wheels and a phaserunner to handle the high eRPM that results ). I'd imagine it can do 25mph continuous ( check the ebikes.ca motor simulator ) all day, but only short spurts to 30mph..
Agreed neptronix. I think Mac motor is also a great recommendation. Do you know if there is a provider out there who sells complete mac motor ebikes ? Is the Juiced a mac motor or a bafang one ? I am not sure if they are the same or similar.

Kitaro1999   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 48
Joined: Oct 25 2017 4:27am

Re: Stromer ST1 vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000

Post by Kitaro1999 » Oct 15 2018 11:55am

neptronix wrote:
Oct 15 2018 11:51am
This post was not about me. It's about what is possible and what it costs to build something with better performance and range, more serviceability, and more affordability than a prebuilt bike. Many people have built things far greater than anything i've touched. My builds are only slightly greater than average.

I can obviously read. I am the guy who does surgery on the server that runs this site, and there's no room for error in a linux server :lol:. We are a DIY evehicle building forum though, so don't be shocked when someone here tries to nudge someone in the direction of building something better than stock. :)
Dude, you are a hero. I know.. sorry if I got carried away. I read your post history earlier - clearly know your stuff.
My argument was about the proprietary stuff.. I am for open platforms... i dont like proprietary stuff and between Juggernaut and Stromer, I htink the Biktrix is cheaper TCO.

Appreciate you running the site. Apologies - I didn't mean any disrespect.

Voltron   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1841
Joined: May 02 2013 4:53pm
Location: Santa Barbara CA

Re: Stromer ST1X vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000 vs DIY

Post by Voltron » Oct 15 2018 12:50pm

For the op... If you are fascinated by the Stromer and have the bucks go for it! It's a very smooth and technologically integrated system. Just don't be mad when somebody on their under $1000 bike passes you going up a hill... Lol.

One sweet memory was riding my de-electrified Pedego Ford cruiser and running into a buddy on a Stromer ST2, so we rode about 15 blocks in stop and go traffic lights uphill, and he finally turns to me and says that thing pulls out pretty good, has it got a crank drive or something? His confused face when I told him I was just pedaling was priceless :lol:
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Voltron   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1841
Joined: May 02 2013 4:53pm
Location: Santa Barbara CA

Re: Stromer ST1X vs Juggernaut Ultra 1000 vs DIY

Post by Voltron » Oct 15 2018 1:01pm

And my main concern with the Juggernaut is where and when can you get motor parts? All the other stuff is pretty generic, but that motor is so new unless you love being on the bleeding edge of development, it seems a little overkill unless on trails all the time as a play bike. In a pavement work commuter the possiblity of having weeks of downtime waiting for parts doesn't fit the reliable commuter ideal very well, for me anyway.

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