Recommend a motor superior to the..

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ebike11   100 kW

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Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by ebike11 » Dec 17 2018 9:30pm

MXUS 3000 Turbo. (3T version)

Just curious whats out there that is superior to this motor.
I think its a great motor though.
Not looking to break the bank.
Thanks!

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by spinningmagnets » Dec 17 2018 9:58pm

Superior in what way? Lighter? Cheaper? More powerful?

As far as power, there are several hubmotors with a 205mm diameter stator. The MXUS 3000 has a 45mm wide stator. MXUS also has a 55mm wide stator option. (more copper mass, more power potential). Cromotor is 50mm

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by ebike11 » Dec 17 2018 10:16pm

spinningmagnets wrote:
Dec 17 2018 9:58pm
Superior in what way? Lighter? Cheaper? More powerful?

As far as power, there are several hubmotors with a 205mm diameter stator. The MXUS 3000 has a 45mm wide stator. MXUS also has a 55mm wide stator option. (more copper mass, more power potential). Cromotor is 50mm
Hi there
I guess performance/speed wise and one that has similar diameter.
I know the mxus 3000 will fit in a standard 26" MTB frame.

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by Tommm » Dec 17 2018 10:40pm

The qs motor 3000w is 50mm wide stator, the motor is wider too. about 148mm, making it tough to fit unless it is a custom frame.
The Mxus is 45mm stator and around 142mm, so it is easier to do. That is the main advantage to the mxus.

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by amberwolf » Dec 17 2018 11:22pm

To know what might be better, we first have to know the complete configuration of your existing system:

--wheel size, tire size
--controller capability
--battery capability
--what exactly are you getting out of it now
----maximum speed
----continuous speed
----acceleration
----battery current draw at max acceleration and speed
----battery voltage drop at that current

and then what you want out of it
--maximum speed
--continuous speed
--acceleration
--etc

to know if you are even reaching the maximum that it can put out, and if not,
what the limiting component is, which may not be your motor.

It's not usually the motor that is the limiting factor in a system, unless it's obviously overheating constantly.


As an example, I am using the same motor you have now, in a 20" wheel with 16" moped tire (more like 21" actual diameter) on the SB Cruiser, and with the right controller and settings, and a battery that can supply the current without much voltage sag, it can accelerate from 0-20MPH in <5 seconds (I think I've had less than 4 at one point). Or I can use it at lower speeds and accelerations (mostly to prevent damage to the cargo from the roads) to haul a piano, or a couple St Bernards, or several hundred pounds of dog food.

And I'm sure I"m not really pushing the motor to it's limits, though I can get it too hot to keep my hand on if I try, I could easily cool it in a number of ways and get more out of it, or push it harder even without the modifications and still not actually damage it.

(and there are two of those motors on there, one 3T and one 4T, but the above can be done with just one of them).

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by dogman dan » Dec 18 2018 8:53am

IMO, once you get into that size magnets in your motor, they all do damn well.

at 2000w, a very nice moped, at 4000w and above, you got yer homemade street illegal motorcycle with pedals. What breaks the bank is not usually the big ass motor, but the battery that can handle it, particularly when going motorcycle.

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by markz » Dec 21 2018 7:06pm

The QS motors have lots of power.
The Leaf Bike and Leaf Motor 1500W is decent as well.

All depends, as mentioned.

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by neptronix » Dec 21 2018 7:46pm

leafbike 1500w beats it in efficiency at lower power levels ( 1000-1600W ). At higher power levels ( >1600W ), the MXUS wins the efficiency/power contest, of course.

MXUS 5kw motor is one i don't have a dyno graph for, but i'd pick it over a QS any day for a larger motor because of how damn heavy the QSes are and how they have subpar efficiency numbers for their class due to the lower quality materials used. Not a fan.

For QS 205 type power, i'd rather just stick some statorade in a MXUS 45mm ( 3kw ) motor.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by MadRhino » Dec 22 2018 12:40am

neptronix wrote:
Dec 21 2018 7:46pm
...For QS 205 type power, i'd rather just stick some statorade in a MXUS 45mm ( 3kw ) motor.
I ride the QS 205 H50 v3, and it does beat the MXUS 3000 badly. More copper fill mostly. I have fellow riders using the MXUS 3000, not even close to compete. The 55mm MXUS rated 5kw is still behind, yet close enough that acceleration difference could be caused by other factors. Something else I like of QS, is they are making the motor in a large variety of windings, and willing to accept mods. I ordered the two last ones drilled for bicycle spokes, and it didn’t make much longer shipping delay.

I haven't tried the bigger QS motors because of their weight.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by neptronix » Dec 22 2018 11:59am

MadRhino wrote:
Dec 22 2018 12:40am
I ride the QS 205 H50 v3, and it does beat the MXUS 3000 badly. More copper fill mostly. I have fellow riders using the MXUS 3000, not even close to compete. The 55mm MXUS rated 5kw is still behind, yet close enough that acceleration difference could be caused by other factors. Something else I like of QS, is they are making the motor in a large variety of windings, and willing to accept mods. I ordered the two last ones drilled for bicycle spokes, and it didn’t make much longer shipping delay.

I haven't tried the bigger QS motors because of their weight.
Yes, so the QS is the modern Crystalyte 35xx, basically. Lots of torque, lots of weight, lots of thermal mass.. but this all comes at the expense of lower efficiency, which counteracts the benefits of tons of copper while you are at cruising speeds. But you have a long time before you overheat, so this isn't noticed so much, except when it comes to the range you get out of a battery.

I guess i am in the opposite camp. I want the highest efficiency during a continuous cruise. I also want the highest continuous power to weight ratio - not really interested in what happens during temporary bursts of power. The entire QS lineup makes absolutely no sense to me. If i want more power, i can select a slightly larger motor and see higher efficiency, but still have lower weight because the QS's are so damn heavy!

Maybe the difference is subjective then - because my use case is long distance riding at high speeds, kind of hypermiling an ebike, to be honest. So performance takes a back seat.

PS - the MXUS 3kw is actually very dishonestly rated. In reality, the motor is only capable of about 2250-2500w continuous when you stick it in a 26 inch wheel. The 3kw rating came from a test in a 20" wheel. I believe it also suffers of sloppier windings than say, the leafmotor.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by MadRhino » Dec 22 2018 11:20pm

Can’t compare with Clytes. Even my X54 is far behind the 205h50. Clytes are so cheaply wound. I have fried a whole garbage can of them H35.

But yes, the weight difference is considerable as compared to the MXUS. My rides in the city are more about repeated acceleration than efficiency, although the 205v3 efficiency is not bad when it’s not beaten like I do. For acceleration and top speed, hard to beat a QS. MXUS should make their motors available in a larger choice of windings.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
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ebike11   100 kW

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by ebike11 » Dec 26 2018 8:49am

neptronix wrote:
Dec 21 2018 7:46pm
leafbike 1500w beats it in efficiency at lower power levels ( 1000-1600W ). At higher power levels ( >1600W ), the MXUS wins the efficiency/power contest, of course.

MXUS 5kw motor is one i don't have a dyno graph for, but i'd pick it over a QS any day for a larger motor because of how damn heavy the QSes are and how they have subpar efficiency numbers for their class due to the lower quality materials used. Not a fan.

For QS 205 type power, i'd rather just stick some statorade in a MXUS 45mm ( 3kw ) motor.
Would you know where to find the 5000 MXUS for sale? Only see the 3000 MXUS on aliexpress which is what I bought before

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by amberwolf » Dec 26 2018 12:37pm

Still waiting on complete answers to my previous post if you really want help figuring out what will work for your needs, rather than just getting a "bigger" motor (which may do absolutely nothing for you and waste your money).


If you just want a bigger motor to say you have a bigger motor, well, then anything that says itcan handle more watts and is physically larger will do.

Then you can have a heavier bike that doesn't work any better than before, and possibly is worse, since heavier with no change in the rest of the system just decreases acceleration and hill climbing.

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by Bullfrog » Mar 24 2020 8:59am

I realize this is an older thread...just posting to help those that might read it in the future.

Warning...the 5KW 55H MXUS motor looks real good at first glance BUT I have read they use an obscure French thread on the cover so finding a freewheel that will work may be challenging.

I sent MXUS a message a while back asking about the thread but have not gotten a reply.

Can anybody verify whether MXUS still uses the French thread on the cover of their 5KW motor?

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DogDipstick   1 kW

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by DogDipstick » Mar 24 2020 10:31am

dogman dan wrote:
Dec 18 2018 8:53am
What breaks the bank is not usually the big ass motor, but the battery that can handle it, particularly when going motorcycle.
I have heard you say this before. I disagree. a good battery is one of the cheaper budget items if you DIY. IF you plan on buying, good luck.

I yanked over 2000A and 8000w out of my first set of homemade battery, over two years old now. Looking at motors now and the onyl ones that are up to the level I want are all like 800+$ First battery has 200$ worth of cell in them. Crossing 100 cycles with zero degradation on this bike soon. Not counting the year prior.


Carry on.
Allota Watts @ 83.1v of raw QS power takes me everywhere on my Ironhorse DW link XC... :) Powered by Chevy. :D Broke 10 horses the other day. ( BTW; ...don't get hurt... :? )... (Currently building a battery datalogger.). :roll: Playin with (24) IRFB4115s now. :wink:

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by DogDipstick » Mar 24 2020 10:34am

Bullfrog wrote:
Mar 24 2020 8:59am


Can anybody verify whether MXUS still uses the French thread on the cover of their 5KW motor?

French thread? Can you measure it at all? Dont know of any weird french thread lol.

You talking 1.0mm pitch? Very common.
Allota Watts @ 83.1v of raw QS power takes me everywhere on my Ironhorse DW link XC... :) Powered by Chevy. :D Broke 10 horses the other day. ( BTW; ...don't get hurt... :? )... (Currently building a battery datalogger.). :roll: Playin with (24) IRFB4115s now. :wink:

Bullfrog   100 W

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by Bullfrog » Mar 24 2020 10:54am

I don't have one so I can't measure it. Just read about it on one of the threads here on Endless Sphere.

Getting old so I can't remember exact diameter/pitch but it is not 1.375x24 tpi which is the "most" common for currently available freewheels.

You can probably find freewheels to fit the 5KW MXUS motor...it just isn't going to be as simple and you'll need to make sure you use a freewheel that fits so you don't damage the threads on the motor :D .

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DogDipstick   1 kW

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by DogDipstick » Mar 24 2020 11:46am

Bullfrog wrote:
Mar 24 2020 10:54am
I don't have one so I can't measure it. Just read about it on one of the threads here on Endless Sphere.

Getting old so I can't remember exact diameter/pitch but it is not 1.375x24 tpi which is the "most" common for currently available freewheels.

You can probably find freewheels to fit the 5KW MXUS motor...it just isn't going to be as simple and you'll need to make sure you use a freewheel that fits so you don't damage the threads on the motor :D .

yeah this is a really good thing to know certainly.
Allota Watts @ 83.1v of raw QS power takes me everywhere on my Ironhorse DW link XC... :) Powered by Chevy. :D Broke 10 horses the other day. ( BTW; ...don't get hurt... :? )... (Currently building a battery datalogger.). :roll: Playin with (24) IRFB4115s now. :wink:

markz   100 GW

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by markz » Mar 24 2020 1:56pm

MXUS factory is on ali, probably cheaper then buying from a 3rd party or counterfeiter.
ebike11 wrote:
Dec 26 2018 8:49am
Would you know where to find the 5000 MXUS for sale? Only see the 3000 MXUS on aliexpress which is what I bought before

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by john61ct » Mar 25 2020 10:09am

French thread is 1.366" x 25.4tpi (34.7 x 1mm)

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/freewheels.html

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Re: Recommend a motor superior to the..

Post by Bullfrog » Mar 25 2020 11:15am

john61ct wrote:
Mar 25 2020 10:09am
French thread is 1.366" x 25.4tpi (34.7 x 1mm)

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/freewheels.html
That is it...Thanks john61ct :D .

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