Crystalyte/LiFePO4 preasembled ebike available anywhere?

Is there any business or individual that sells an assembled ebike that uses a Chrystalyte motor and uses Li-FePo4 battery technology?

I ask this question because I'm sick of kits. I have had good success with building two different ebikes using Chrystalyte motors. One ebike used lead-acid batteries which was popular back in the day. It worked well and was fairly fast (although extremely heavy), clocking in at about 42MPH. I parted that ebike out when I built my second ebike which used a different Chrystalyte motor and Lithium Polymer batteries. It was a real screamer, attaining a speed of 50MPH. Unfortunately the Lithium Polymer batteries were quite flammable and during a charging cycle in my attached garage caught fire and burned down most of my house in the process. Thus my intense dislike for Lithium-Polymer batteries.

I believe that LiFePo4 batteries are not flammable (or at least not nearly as flammable as Lithium Polymer batteries). I could be wrong about that assumption. Anyway, assuming they are OK, I would like to purchase a prebuilt ebike that uses a Chrystalyte motor and have LiFePo4 batteries. My question is where to buy such an ebike that is already assembled.

Thanks for your time.

bob

NMC chemistry can ignite for all the same reasons that a li-co based polymer ( pouch ) battery can.
If you want safety, lifepo4 chemistry is the best choice. However it comes with a downside of being 2-4 times heavier and larger.

Pouch format batteries are not inherently unsafe because of the format they are in. A123 lifepo4 chemistry cells in pouch format are as safe as cylindrical ones are. A function of the chemistry, not the format.

OK, thats good to know about the potential flammability of Li-NMC. I do want safety, so I guess my question now is "Is there any business or individual that sells an assembled ebike that uses a Chrystalyte motor and uses LiFePo4 battery technology?"

Is there any business or individual that sells a fully assembled ebike that uses a Chrystalyte motor and uses LiFePo4 battery technology? I'd like it to have 26" wheels and have a reasonable range of nominally 30 miles and a top speed of about 30MPH.

Thanks.

bob

In short, I don't know - I checked the online catalogues for a couple local manufacturers; one of them says "lithium" (duh) and the other doesn't say, at all. Here's what I think: you can get the kit with all the parts more or less configured, install it on a sturdy bicycle and have a pretty good ride, but I'd be really surprised to see anything like that on the market. The 30mph motor/controller is outside the "bicycle" standard in many if not most jurisdictions, and it's a lot of motor to put on a bike that's been hobbled to meet the standard. The LiFePO4 battery is a good choice for various reasons, but those reasons aren't particularly manifest in the catalogue, where higher charge density LiCo batteries look better. And at any rate, no one's going to spec that stuff out for shoppers - you get a motor and a battery. It's not like the automotive industry.

Seems like somebody could make a good living putting these kits together on a bicycle and then selling fully functional assembled ebikes online. I know I, at least, would pay for one.

There are manufacturers that use LiFePO4 batteries, or at least have in the past, like Prodeco, but they generally don't use Crystalyte products, which are usualy found as kits or individual parts for DIY bikes.

The catch with OEM complete ebikes is that they tend to be quite expensive compared to what a kit costs.

Even a builder just using kits on wallyworld bikes, if charging even a reasonable labor cost and has no overhead running the business out of a house, will have a high enough cost to become comparable to OEMs, unless not much profit is desired, and no warranty is offered, and no one has a problem with their bike that causes them to have to sue for damages due to lack of warranty/service.

There are DIY builders around, including some here on ES if you look in the for sale sections, but "good living" is questionable unless they charge quite a bit more than you could do it yourself for.

As long as you have the budget for it, I'm sure there is someone here on ES that would be willing to build you one...as long as you're willing to accept the possibility of no warranty/service/etc.

But if you want a warranty, the OEMs are your best bet; you might be able to get one of them to install a LiFePO4 battery in place of whatever they have; dunno if they'd do a Crystalyte motor though.


FWIW, Crystalyte has some of the most variable quality I've seen in motors. If you're just after power or speed, there's other stuff out there; see http://ebikes.ca/simulator for something you can "test" different motors/etc to see which can do what you want.


Also, LiFePO4 isn't necessarily any more fireproof than any other chemistry, if the wrong thing happens.

But almost anything is better than RC LiPo, which is frequently of questionable consistency with little or no QC.



I think rather than looking for a specific motor brand, etc., you may be better off looking at bikes from well-known OEMs that can definitely do what you need them to regarding range, power, speed., etc.

And charge outside away from the house/etc., and/or never charge unattended, regardless of what battery type/etc. you use.

amberwolf said:

Also, LiFePO4 isn't necessarily any more fireproof than any other chemistry, if the wrong thing happens.

But almost anything is better than RC LiPo, which is frequently of questionable consistency with little or no QC.

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LiFePO4 seems to be widely understood to be more stable, safer than the common "Lithium" (Lithium Cobalt, or LiCoO2.) (Also less of an environmental problem, and longer life.) It's an excellent choice for electric bicycles, but if you let someone else make the choice you'll always get Lithium cobalt.

By itself, it is more stable, but it is just as possible to cause a fire with it under the wrong conditions.

And unattended charging seems to be one of the most common times that fires happen, with any chemistry.

Riding or driving along and having it just burst into flame is the other. (most likely from a wiring short). That's happened with almost every chemistry I know of (I haven't seen a report here of an LTO pack go up that way yet).

I think Fisker had a problem where a coolant leak would short things inside the battery compartment, and then a fire would start. The batteries (A123?) burned just as well as any other once that happened, even though the chemistry itself was unlikely to be at fault (and some other chemistries might have been worse fires).

Last I checked, Crystalyte was a small, family-owned business that specialized in DIY motors and kits for hobbyists in Western countries. If that's still true, you won't find any complete e-bikes with Crystalyte motors, because that's not what they do.

Chalo said:

If that's still true, you won't find any complete e-bikes with Crystalyte motors, because that's not what they do.

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Actually I just remembered there's the Stealth ebike series, at least the older ones. Dunno what they use these days. (and I don't think they use LiFePO4). Pretty expensive though.

But I cant' think of any other OEMs that use their stuff.

Sucks your bike burned your house. I got lucky and only got the garage actually burned when my bike set the garage on fire, charging the battery. I hope you had insurance as good as mine was. Most of what burned in the fire was bought at half to a third of retail price, but insurance paid off on it at 70% of retail. Enough to pay for those items that were not covered in the fire and then some. House all new, or like new. Not worth it at all, but an extra 15 thou took a some of the sting out of that experience.

You might be stuck with a kit again, but maybe this time go to pingbattery for the power. I keep going round and round on the decision myself. My last lipo's that did not burn in the fire are about dead. They survived because not trusting them, they were stored in the fireplace of the house.

Anyway, now I don't trust shit, and even if I go with a ping lifepo4 it will never come inside the house or garage. So whats the diff? If its out in the battery bunker. Most likely this spring I'll just buy some more turnigy packs, and continue to treat them like they will catch fire.

For go fast, I turned back to gas a long time ago. And biking, I'm doing a lot of pedaling since my health continues to slowly improve to where that is even possible. Rides too short though, I REALLY miss the e bikes. Anyway, for 25 mph ebikes, a ping and a decent kit is all you need. Get a motorcycle for go fast, and be fully insured and legal while hauling ass.


Best bet for a really good kit is of course going to be at grin technology, aka ebikesca. Not sure if he still sells the crystalytes or not. Been a couple years more focused on rebuilding, and getting settled back into the house.

dogman dan said:

Not sure if he still sells the crystalytes or not. Been a couple years more focused on rebuilding, and getting settled back into the house.

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em3ev.com sells a kit - but ironically it looks like you'd have to get the battery elsewhere.

dogman; Insurance was good. Covered everything except my deductible. From now on battery charging will get done during daylight hours when I am home and will be done in my detached barn.

I've looked around at various sites and decided that I'll go for the kit again. It wasn't too hard to do in the past, so it shouldn't be hard now. I've got my sites currently set on electric-bikes.com/betterbikes/phoenixii. It is very close to my last build, so my learning curve won't be so bad.

I have since created space out next to my barn where I can charge my next ebike. I bought a Vector Typhoon from Germany and it is en route to my location in the US. If a fire occurs during charging, there is very little it can burn except the bike itself. Everything else around the ebike is metal or non-combustible.

I gave up on Chrystalyte motors ( the title of this thread) even though I have one of them laying around from my last build. I probably should offer it for sale since I'm never going to use it. I just don't know what $ I should sell it for.

- bob

If you have received your Vector Typhoon can you give me your thoughts on it? I am interested in the Typhoon. And the Typhoon light if I can get them to build the Light battery with the 3500 mAh LG-MJ1 cells.