Best controller to use with qs 205?

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Ctrider   100 µW

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Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by Ctrider » Feb 19 2019 11:26am

Qs 205v3 50h hub, what 72v controller? This will be my second build but first time going over 48v. I am fairly new in this world (2 years) and I am not sure what controller to use. They are expensive so I want to make the right choice. I use my Ebike for commuting to work 12 miles round trip and also lots of pleasure riding. My area is all flat. During commute I don’t pedal at all. I want to go as fast as possible. I also want flux weakening and variable Regen. I have read a lot of both good and bad about the sabvoton 72150. I like it’s price point but not it’s physical size. It’s very large. What about the vectors from golden? Anybody willing to steer me in the right direction I would appreciate it.

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by 999zip999 » Feb 19 2019 2:36pm

Look at powervelocity bt controllers 18 fet or more. What battery you using ? Battery the important part.

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by Ctrider » Feb 19 2019 4:13pm

I have a 20s10p pack of brand new 30q.

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by flat tire » Feb 19 2019 7:16pm

ASI BAC 4000

Good quality, easy to program, huge configurability, torque-request throttle (that one's huge).

Powervelocity has a speed-request throttle which is not as good.

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by markz » Feb 19 2019 9:12pm

Adaptto if you want to spend lots and lots of money.

Kelly Controller is good too, would meet your 150A requirements, but Kelly uses Phase Amps not battery.



sabvoton 72150
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 1d3cXzVhCE
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=150
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0&start=25

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by Dauntless » Feb 19 2019 11:06pm

Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by zeccato » Feb 20 2019 1:39am

Nucular 12f,
but will be available in a some months.
Full susp. folding 20 swxh r. (2011),. batt. 48v. 25A Life (2012), and 48 7,5A a123 (2018?). Controller programmable EB3 12 FET. Charger Balancer 14s: TP1430C. Mercury (rarely). Buzzer.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 6dXxc9-lNW

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by amberwolf » Feb 20 2019 1:45am

markz wrote:
Feb 19 2019 9:12pm
Adaptto if you want to spend lots and lots of money.
In one of the sale/support threads for those, it essentially says they're out of business.

(EDIT: found the post: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &p=1444797 )
Last edited by amberwolf on Feb 20 2019 5:40pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by Ctrider » Feb 20 2019 9:48am

Thanks for replying everyone. I find that There is so much info on ES that trying to find what you are actually looking for can be quite difficult. The power velocity looks like a good option. I am unclear about the differences between tourque request and speed request throttles. I will try to read up on that and also learn about the asi controller

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by 999zip999 » Feb 20 2019 11:21am

Nice battery thank you for where did you pick it up and what size is it as I want 20s 10p of Samsung 30q and may I ask how much

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Feb 20 2019 11:45am

Ctrider wrote:
Feb 20 2019 9:48am
...I am unclear about the differences between tourque [sic] request and speed request throttles ...
Basically, if you need to ask, then it doesn't matter. Simple as that.
For those who are very particular there might be a reason to choose one over the other.

M

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by shortcircuit911 » Feb 20 2019 11:59am

I've been very pleased with my QS205/Mobipus combo. Just my 2 cents, good luck.

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by markz » Feb 20 2019 1:21pm

amberwolf wrote:
Feb 20 2019 1:45am
markz wrote:
Feb 19 2019 9:12pm
Adaptto if you want to spend lots and lots of money.
In one of the sale/support threads for those, it essentially says they're out of business.
Oh really, ok then that is good to know!
Not that I was ever really going to buy one, I am just too cheap :oops:

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by Ctrider » Feb 20 2019 6:29pm

999zip999 wrote:
Feb 20 2019 11:21am
Nice battery thank you for where did you pick it up and what size is it as I want 20s 10p of Samsung 30q and may I ask how much
I had guy I know make it for me, who is a personal friend. He has a 12kw power storage battery set up with solar, so I trusted him to make it for me.

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by Ctrider » Feb 20 2019 6:31pm

MJSfoto1956 wrote:
Feb 20 2019 11:45am
Ctrider wrote:
Feb 20 2019 9:48am
...I am unclear about the differences between tourque [sic] request and speed request throttles ...
Basically, if you need to ask, then it doesn't matter. Simple as that.
For those who are very particular there might be a reason to choose one over the other.

M
May I ask for a brief description of the difference between the speed and tourque request throttles please? (I searched ES, but could not find)

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by amberwolf » Feb 21 2019 1:07am

There's two things called "speed" throttles.

One is an open-loop that really just uses the throttle position to control the duty cycle of the PWM that sets the average voltage on the motor. Effectively it controls the voltage, and thus the speed, of the motor, but it doesnt' regulate that speed--just mroe throttle = more speed for the same conditions otherwise.

The toher is a closed-loop that monitors the speed of the vehicle and the throttle position. It "knows" (not really) the maximum speed of the vehicle, and uses the throttle as a zero to 100% control of that speed. So holding any particular throttle position should result in the same speed under any conditions at which the vehicle can actually maintain that speed with the power/etc it's capable of.

One disadvantage of these two types of throttle control is in a high power (to weight) system, it is difficult to use low power levels, and can be prone to surges of power at startup or during large changes in throttle position intended only to change speeds.


Current, or "torque" throttle, controls the amount of current to the motor instead of the speed, otherwise just like the above. So it doesn't maintain a particular speed, it maintains a particular current, which roughly equates to a particular torque. Some (including me) find this more comfortable to work with than the other two above.

I like it because in the higher power systems it lets you roll up torque of the motor to gradually apply "power" and have pretty fine control over the system at any speed.


There are also some that use a "power" throttle, that controls the total watts instead of current. These usually monitor *battery* current instead of phase (motor) current, along with battery voltage, so actual motor conditions may vary from this and so a particular throttle position may not always provide the same motor power (at the ground). I haven't used this mode enough to say if it's useful to me; what I have used of it so far isn't what I want.

The current (torque) throttle is my preference, either as the CA (Cycle Analyst from Grin Tech http://ebikes.ca ) implements it, or as the Incememed SFOC5 does in the testing I've done so far in it.

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by j bjork » Feb 22 2019 7:51am

flat tire wrote:
Feb 19 2019 7:16pm
ASI BAC 4000

Good quality, easy to program, huge configurability, torque-request throttle (that one's huge).

Powervelocity has a speed-request throttle which is not as good.
How are the possibilitys to buy them now?
You did´nt seem very happy with the dealer back then. I have not been in contact with ASI myself, but it seems like they don´t sell to customers.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=96264&start=50
Last edited by j bjork on Feb 22 2019 7:59am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by j bjork » Feb 22 2019 7:54am

I asked the same some time ago, but not very much responces:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=98416

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by flat tire » Feb 22 2019 3:50pm

j bjork wrote:
Feb 22 2019 7:51am
How are the possibilitys to buy them now?
You did´nt seem very happy with the dealer back then. I have not been in contact with ASI myself, but it seems like they don´t sell to customers.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=96264&start=50
I buy from ASI now. The bad buying experience was from Alan at ERT.

ASI will sell to you in single quantities, you just need to be professional and have it look like you're a business. They don't want to deal with incompetent idiots which most end-users are from a business perspective. I placed my orders with a business email and didn't have any problems. They even include support, and your own login for the support site and mobile app. I didn't get that from the "other" vender.

And yes, in my experience ERT and Alan are completely incompetent and dishonest to a degree that was absurd and comical...for someone not waiting for a 2-months overdue controller.

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by j bjork » Feb 22 2019 4:44pm

Thanks, what do you think of the fw etc? Is it easy to work with, do you use the phone app? It is so annoying that so much of the info is locked if you don´t have an occount. And you only get it after you buy..
$750 for the 4000 on ASI:s webb page is a bit less appealing than the $550 in ERT:s thread too.

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by flat tire » Feb 22 2019 5:14pm

Yes, ERT's 4K are cheaper. Here is the problem with that even if he delivers the product next-day: he has horrible quality harnesses shunts and connectors and most importantly you rely on his personal ASI login to use the app, which he shares with his customers against ASI's terms of service. So if (or when) his account gets shut down, then you are SOL as far as being able to talk to the controller. It is a hideously unprofessional situation.

All the programming info and stuff is mostly available just not straightforward to find. ebikes.ca has a couple PDFs on their site. I bought a bac2000 from them a while ago and learned how to program it without support. In any case, you have nothing to worry about programming-wise, everything is straightforward you just need to be thorough and check out all the options.

I don't really have any thoughts on the firmware. The controller boots up pretty much instantly and just works.

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by tigcross » Feb 22 2019 5:40pm

I recommend the Grin Phaserunner, it uses ASI internals but is nicely potted for waterproofness and play's nicely with their Cycle Analyst screen. www.ebikes.ca. They can also sell you an ASI controller

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by flat tire » Feb 22 2019 5:43pm

tigcross wrote:
Feb 22 2019 5:40pm
I recommend the Grin Phaserunner, it uses ASI internals but is nicely potted for waterproofness and play's nicely with their Cycle Analyst screen. www.ebikes.ca. They can also sell you an ASI controller
That controller is not worthy of pushing a QS205. It's weak as shit.

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by tigcross » Feb 22 2019 6:19pm

That controller is not worthy of pushing a QS205. It's weak as shit.
Hmm, maybe you didn't read the initial post regarding the flat aspect of his ride. The Phaserunner can handle 50 amps and at 72 volts that's quite a bit of power. (3500 watts) I guess the question is, do you want obscene power, or lots of power and some range and battery life.

I think it is also worth mentioning that Grin is working on a 12 'fet Phaserunner that will have more power, but I'm not sure what their timeline is.

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Re: Best controller to use with qs 205?

Post by MadRhino » Feb 24 2019 4:07pm

tigcross wrote:
Feb 22 2019 6:19pm
That controller is not worthy of pushing a QS205. It's weak as shit.
Hmm, maybe you didn't read the initial post regarding the flat aspect of his ride. The Phaserunner can handle 50 amps and at 72 volts that's quite a bit of power. (3500 watts) I guess the question is, do you want obscene power, or lots of power and some range and battery life.

I think it is also worth mentioning that Grin is working on a 12 'fet Phaserunner that will have more power, but I'm not sure what their timeline is.
Let’s say you are using the phaserunner controller: what the hell are you doing with a big heavy hub like the QS 205 ?

That is what was meant by flat tire in his previous post. It is a bad match. Either you need a smaller motor, or a bigger controller. Would you feed a 12 cylinder racing motor with a lawnmower carburetor ?
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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