Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
C158   10 W

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Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by C158 » Apr 09 2019 12:02am

Hello!

This is my first post!

I have spent several hours searching for the "best" electronic Mountain BIke for my needs. Initially I was turned off because having not done a deep dive on the subject I had assumed Stealth Bikes and HPC were pretty much it and spending $12 to $15k is out of the question. This was steering me toward a Dualtron Thunder scooter or possibly a Works Electric. That said, I did not want to discount the bike option as it truly is more versatile....so I did a deep dive (well, 5 to 6 hours of poking around)

I want a bike that goes 40mph+ and can do about 50mi under moderate stress in a charge. I also want it to look like a bike as much as possible. Price $4500 to $7500 max. This lead me to checking out the about including Vector. While Vector is damn powerful and has one hell of a range, the looks do not do it for me. The Neematic looks great, but as of now is vaporwear and I will be purchasing within a few weeks time.

The Qulbix Q140MD is my #1. From reading reviews their mid system has been done right and has a ridiculous amount of power. It also appears that is the way folks would prefer all of them to be made so the weight is balanced with no weight attached to the rear wheel. That said, the fact it only has one gear is worrisome incase it craps out on a trail....Can you still pedal it? What would the resistance be like?

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All in all, I *think* this would be the best bet. Can anyone chime in a build quality and overall support from this Company? There does not seem to be to many of these around (or any brand for that matter) in this price range.

I am looking to be on pavement and light to moderate trail riding. This seems perfect. So far I have checked out and landed on the Q140MD after looking at Stealth, HPC, LMX, NYX, Neematic, Luna, Vector, Cyclone, anything where you have to put it together yourself. I want turn key. I am open to other brands as well, but feel like I covered many of the top mfg out there.

Thank you!

benjamin84   100 W

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by benjamin84 » Apr 09 2019 1:58am

I won't repeat all the praise I have been giving the Q140MD over in the other thread I started ;) But I can comment on the pedalling. The pedals are geared for useful assistance at higher speeds. So from 20 kph and upwards you start to feel like you are pedalling at a sensible cadence, and it all works as intended.

What that means though, is that from a stand-still it is almost impossible to pedal the bike even on flat ground. The slightest incline will prevent it from moving entirely, and you will be resorting to pushing it - which to be honest is very easy as it rolls quite nicely.

The good news is that Qulbix are working on a lower geared setup more suitable for pedalling at low speeds :) They tell me this is in progress and should be ready in not too long. I reckon I will purchase this and see how it works for my use where the pedals are mostly there as an emergency backup in case I run out of battery in the middle of nowhere :P

Apart from the pedalling aspect at low speeds I reckon the Q140MD would work well for you. With more street-oriented gearing and tires it will easily top over 40mph, mine does 56kph (35mph) with the lowest available gearing and off-road knobby tires. Range should be better in a street setup too, but at a steady 25kph on a wet/muddy gravel road my bike used 30Wh/Km which gives a range of 66 km (41 miles) with 10% reserve, or 73 km (45 miles) until the battery is entirely spent.

C158   10 W

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by C158 » Apr 09 2019 8:58am

Thank you for the reply!

Can you speak on the quality overall? When I open the package up, will I feel it was money well spent by just looking at it in the flesh?

What is your opinion on the fork and rear shock? I looked them up and they seem run of the mill. Was curious if it would be wise just to get credit for them and tell them to install better options. Same with the handle bar. OR maybe it is just fine the way it is? I truly have no experience with this. I did jump over to Fox website and they had an E Bime fork that was around $800 that looked interesting. Again, may not be needed.

For reference I weigh 170lb and am 6ft tall.

What other options did you look into? I imagine you spent some time researching all options prior to purchase ? The Neematic looks great, but is $2k more and they are not released.

I have seen most if not all your posts. You seem to be the only one in the wild with one direct from factory. I’ve seen some custom builds with the Raptor frame and some older models on YouTube, but not too much on this model. I suppose it’s do to this being still a niche with a high price point.

Thank you for the reply!

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by Grantmac » Apr 09 2019 10:49am

I'd be looking at the LMX or Boxxbike if you want to be able to pedal it without motor power.

C158   10 W

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by C158 » Apr 09 2019 11:10am

Thank you.

Peddling is not of main concern. It’s more If the bike broke. Sounds like it’s possible but only at higher speeds for now with there being a possibility down the line from what the other poster mentioned at lower speeds.

The other thing that is very attractive with the Qulbix is the 15,000W of power! Not too many mid systems or any system for that matter seems to offer this much power.

I’ve seen some bikes on YouTube with 28,000, but they appear to be custom builds, which I do not want to do.

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by Grantmac » Apr 09 2019 11:46am

Any time you have to share the chain between pedals and motor one of them will be seeing a compromise.
Other than that and it's very non-stealth appearance the reviews have been good.

C158   10 W

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by C158 » Apr 09 2019 12:17pm

I’m waiting for an email reply Input our to them. Hopefully hear back soon. I would probably want it powder coated a cement gray if possible with orange accents. We’ll see.

I’d love to hear of build quality. Hopefully the other poster chimes in on that, or anyone else with their bikes.

benjamin84   100 W

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by benjamin84 » Apr 09 2019 3:21pm

Check out the other Q140MD thread for lots of my thoughts and pictures, but to summarise:

- Quality seems very good, welds are neat, frame seems solid, components are well put together, and the design makes sense!

- The suspension seems fine to me, but I am not a pro/semi-pro/competent-amateur motocross rider so I am not capable of pushing this bike to its limits. I will post more thoughts on this once the snow clears from the forest here and I get some more time on the trails :) (Almost got my Arctic Truck Land Cruiser stuck today, so we need a few more weeks of warm weather first!)

- Other options I reviewed: I started with Stealth bikes as they were the only ones I had heard of. Didn't like the rear hub motor, or the price. Then almost decided to go with an Exess E180, thinking it would be stealthier, but it really is much closer to a regular pedelec than anything else. Considered the Vector bikes, but I wanted the bicycle seat and pedals. Once I got chatting to the guys at Qulbix via e-mail I quickly realised they were serious about their product and genuinely enthusiastic, so I took the plunge and went for it :) Very very pleased, and yeah, 15KW's of power is amazing! In fact I've tuned it down a bit as it can be a tad violent :P Everything is easily adjustable in the bluetooth controller software, so you can set it up to your liking.

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by C158 » Apr 09 2019 5:35pm

I checked those out too. Ya, this does seem to potentially seem like the best bet. I am in Seattle WA and the city has those Lime bikes among a few others scattered all over the place. So I’ll be able to blend good enough with this....I think :wink:

Has the company been good with emails etc? Seems like you’re happy with them in that respect. Do you know anyone else with one?

Have you done anything custom to yours?


Also, I read in the other thread you stated (read the whole thing by time of writing this) that you chose the lowest speed gear setup and highest torque. What max speed are you truly getting? I am thinking about getting the middle option. I won’t be getting to technical with it BUT want to rip off the line and fly up hills on the street and on trails with absolute ease. Based on what you say in the other thread the middle option should do this with plenty left over. I want to hit at least 40mph on it. Ideally 45 to 50, but want the torque to be there as well.

engate   10 W

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by engate » Apr 09 2019 8:22pm

I own a Q140MD as well. It's a nice bike for sure but if you wanna get more for your money I would buy a sur ron with pedal kit.
It's a better design overall but with less power.If you can live with slower acceleration I would go for that.The vector mid drive is also nice. Avoid rear hub motor ebikes at all cost. They're straight garbage regarding handling.

The qulbix is more like a garage project regarding design.Lot of components are fished together from certain manufacturers instead of own designs.(QS205,Kelly KLS7230,ugly Cycle analyst,etc).
Battery securing is probably the worst among the high power ebike manufacturers. It's just thrown into the belly with some foam and double sided tape.
The quality of the frame is nice tho,better than the vector frames for sure.

Unfortunately the controller is speed throttle based.It's like cruise control. Everyone who tried the bike told me that the throttle control is garbage.It's exhausting. I can agree with that. I have over 1300km in the bike and I still can't get used to it.You can fine tune it a bit but then the acceleration won't be instant.

Regarding power,in reality it's more like ~10-13kW based on the battery voltage
Hill climbing is a weak point as well. I can easily overheat it in 5 minutes. Meanwhile my 1500W BBSHD can climb that hill without any overheating.And the qulbix overheats with the high torque setup where the max speed is ~50km/h.

The bottom of the bike is unprotected.For some reason they forgot to design a bash plate there. So if you hit it hard you're frocked. You'll have to replace the pedal chain wheel along with the kickstand probably.

Regarding qulbix customer service: so far they reply quickly,and they provide a solution quickly if there's an issue with the bike.

So it's a nice bike with some cons.I really enjoy riding it but I wouldn't buy it again that's for sure.

C158   10 W

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by C158 » Apr 09 2019 9:35pm

Thank you for the blunt, honest reply.

I looked at Sur ron but it looks too much like a dirt bike. I need it to look like a mountain bike as much as possible. The price point is attractive, but can’t risk that design for riding around the city etc.

Are there any other mfg you would suggest meeting my spec requirements? It’s too bad neematic has not been around for a year or so in the wild(and not out period yet). That *could* be a good choice as well albeit $3k more. Being outside the EU the Q140MD is around $6800. That’s about as much as I’d want to spend. The LMX64 looks clean, but does not nearly the same amount of power.

It appears most of the mfgs use other 3rd party parts? Especially the struts, shocks etc.

You mention the over heating. That Is a red flag for sure. I don’t want that to happen lol. As stated above I think if I were to get it I would do the “mid” option. Good speed at what they claim to be around 43mph and what I would assume good torque as well. The Summer heat worries me a bit hearing this. Maybe Ben can chime in? It sounds like it’s still feeezing there though, so might be too cold to give feedback on overheating as the weather is assisting.

I am open to other suggestions. You mention you would not buy this again. It sounds like your goals are close to mine (listed below) which is why you bought the bike? I feel like the HPC mid offering (top models) are rediculously expensive fully loaded at around $14 to $19k. I think that is crazy to be honest. The mid option from Stealth too, is a crazy price to pay.

Also, have you given them any of this feedback? I wonder if they can make a frame with a guard on the bottom? I wonder why they left that out for what otherwise seems to be a fairly well thought out bike.

Just want:

-Full suspension
-Clean look
-50+ mile range under moderate strain , 40+mph sustained for a time (think on pavement from flat to slight grade here and there with a hill or two thrown in the mix) without over heating
-quality company
- great acceleration and climbing
-$5 to $7k

C158   10 W

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by C158 » Apr 09 2019 9:48pm

Also, can you please go into further detail on the throttle? Are you referring to the fact you have to role the handle grip with your hand rather than a trigger you pull with your fingers like a goped? Sorry for my ignorance. But I’d like to hear more on this gripe.

Ben, any thoughts on this as well?

Also, can this be ridden in the rain? Or is that a no go? I live in Seattle, never know when a rain storm may roll through.

benjamin84   100 W

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by benjamin84 » Apr 10 2019 3:53am

Comments from my experience so far (note I don't have as many miles on this as engate has):

- Power. Cycle analyst shows power draw of over 15KW peak, and it certainly feels like it. Note that this is based on my use which in terms of speed is more like cycling than motocross riding. From 25kph it will pop a wheelie off the throttle in full power mode. If you ride it like a motocross bike, full power for extended amounts of time, I guess your experience may differ. But then again you might be better off with a proper electric motorcycle designed for that use, like a KTM Freeride-E or one of Zero's models?

- Throttle response. This is really very tunable. In full power mode it seems to be a torque control setup (where a certain twist gives a certain amount of torque, regardless of the actual speed you are doing), but in ECO mode it limits your top speed and introduces some speed control elements (where a certain twist of the throttle equals a set speed, and it will even slow you down to achieve that speed). Torque control is much more natural for anyone used to motorbikes, but to be honest I have been able to get used to both options.

- Design. I'm a bit torn on this one. Essentially this is built like the small custom build it is. There are no fancy mouldings or castings like on the Sur-Ron as their production numbers are just too low. So it is built with sheet metal and welded together, which certainly gives it a more boxy look. That said their craftsmanship appears very good judging by my bike, no sharp edges, good welds, nice fit and finish all round. I do agree on the protection for the crank though, that area is vulnerable and could do with a mini-bashplate of sorts.

- Overheating. I really can't comment on this as I've been actively trying not to freeze to death on every ride I've had so far ;) I have gone up long and steep hills, but that's been at around 25kph and not maxed out at 55.

- Comparison to Sur-Ron. I quickly decided against that bike for two main reasons: looks and sound. It looks like a motocross bike, lacks pedals by default, and isn't available with a bicycle seat. The main issue though is sound - the thing whines like an RC car, which for my use was disqualifying as I have to be able to stealthily glide past hikers if I meet them in the forest. That is the advantage of the QS205 motor on the Q140MD, which is absolutely 100% silent. The only noise the Qulbix makes is the sound of the tires crunching gravel.


It's not an easy choice to make. The Sur-Ron is a mass-produced marvel, and great for its intended market. Qulbix (and Vector and other small niche manufacturers) have taken quite a different approach. More power for shorter bursts, and a more bicycle like appearance and handling. I like that Qulbix have used mostly off-the-shelf parts, this means I can quite easily keep the thing mainained and running for however long I want to :)

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by C158 » Apr 10 2019 8:45am

Thank you for reply.

As stated, I need it to look like a bike or the other options you mentioned including Sur Ron would be on the table.

I’m still trying to understand what you guys are talking about with the throttle?

My style of riding will be light to moderate forest trails or logging roads, but mainly city and bike paths. Ben, I’ve watched your videos on YouTube including the longer one you did. That would be the max I’d do in terms of technicality. Probably 30% of the riding. The other 70% would encompass city riding to and from work in Seattle and the suburbs utilizing bike paths etc. I envision doing goofy things too, like ride up a steep grass hill or things of that narture at a park where bikes are allowed. While riding in the city, I won’t be riding on the streets for the most part and sustained speeds of 40 to 50 mph is not realistic and likely not even 30 mph. Eventually you will need to slow down for a light or pedestrians or simply won’t be safe period given the variables of the particular location. With that said, I do not want the thing to overheat as the total trek would be + - 10 miles. I don’t think you guys are saying that though?

Hill climbing. I want to hear more on this. With this power, hill climbing should be of no problem sustaining I would hope 35mph+ With a 10 degree or so city hill grade. There are also some 20 degree grades which would need to be tackled too. But not for miles and miles, just here and there.

In Seattle as you guys may or may not know is pretty mild in terms of climate. However, in the Summer, it gets to be around 80 degrees pretty regularly to about 90 to 95 degrees for a few weeks. Perfect riding temps if no human power is needed right :wink: I wonder if those heat temps would prove to be too much. Period?

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by engate » Apr 10 2019 9:58am

Put belt drive on the sur ron. It will be almost as quiet as a hub motor setup.
What the CA shows is based on the calibration. You could make it show 20kW if you change the settings.The controller is not capable of 15kW. Check the vector bikes. They sell their bikes with the same controller and they state 10kW max power.

I think neither looks like a bicycle to be honest. Everyone says that my qulbix looks like motorcycle.
If you want it to look like a bicycle... Well buy a bicycle and put an electric drive system on it.If you will ride like ben I wouldn't bother with a high power ebike to be honest.1500W ebike would be perfect and it could climb as fast as him with the qulbix in the video. It can climb any hill without overheating and it's 15kg lighter and way more nimble,efficient. the pedaling system is basically useless on the qulbix.

Oh and I don't recommend riding in the rain with the qulbix. I opened the bike up after a rain ride and unfortunately there was some water in the box.However I pressure washed the bike in a car wash about 10 times so not sure if it was the rain or that.

About the throttle. I swapped the regen and throttle cables today and the thumb throttle is so much nicer :) So it's not a big deal to buy a proper thumb throttle and throw that garbage twist throttle into the trash.

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by C158 » Apr 10 2019 10:16am

Good information.

While I agree with you that it does not look like a standard mtn bike, the lines are far more in line with that than the Sur Ron. They WANT that to look like an Enduro bike and I’ll get in trouble for sure. I’m too old to fkuck with the cops etc like I used to on my gas motor goped 18 years ago at 13 years old. Playing the old “I didn’t know card” with an innocent look won’t pull it off. Maybe if I was a cute blonde female haha.

My riding style is as stated in my above post in detail. 25 degree to 30+ degree hill climbs on gravel with sticks etc will be few and far between if at all. It will be more city and trail (light to moderate) most of the time.

In your opinion, why would someone want a high power bike like this or the Vector?

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by engate » Apr 10 2019 10:38am

C158 wrote:
Apr 10 2019 10:16am
In your opinion, why would someone want a high power bike like this or the Vector?
Because hard acceleration is fun :) But you can't really use that power in a forest trail.I rode a lot of times in the forest with it. It's simple: IF you take it easy (retired grandpa mode,the way ben rode in the forest ride video) then it will not overheat.If you'll full throttle it whenever you can then the normal operating temperature will be 100+ celsius easily and it will overheat if you combine that with a slight uphill. All that with my 120kg weight. If you're under 100 it will make a big difference. Riding slow (<25km/h) uphill is the biggest enemy of this bike.

Oh and you can return your qulbix bike if you don't like it ;)

Image

C158   10 W

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by C158 » Apr 10 2019 10:55am

My stats:

76KG
6 ft tall

Can you describe the throttle response more. You seem to genuinely hate it lol.


Does my weight change things in your opinion? Maybe Ben will give us his weight too. He also mentioned that in ECO mode that it was more than powerful enough. So there is that.

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by engate » Apr 10 2019 11:05am

Yeah your weight changes it a lot. It will be fine probably regarding overheating.
The throttle is too sensitive.Sometimes I accidentally twist it just a really tiny bit because of some road imperfection and then it starts accelerating hard.

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by C158 » Apr 10 2019 11:17am

Ok well that is good! Did you ride it in Summer heat with it yet?

They have 3 gear options, what version do you think would be best for me?

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by engate » Apr 10 2019 11:33am

I rode it in ~20 celsius. Ambient temperature doesn't make a huge difference. I would go for the high torque version where the max speed is 55km/h. I actually bought every single chainwheel so I can swap it later :). and I bought the moto seat along with the bicycle seat as well. The moto seat is way better.

C158   10 W

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by C158 » Apr 10 2019 11:41am

55kph (35mph)while fast...I was hoping for a bit more speed. Do you think the middle version, given my weight would provide enough torque to still put a smile on my face? The middle version gets it to about 43 mph which is a descent compromise.

You having all three would know how they all ride though....

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by benjamin84 » Apr 10 2019 11:46am

Regarding the throttle discussion I think we have quite different backgrounds for our riding - I've got about 20 years from motorcycles of varying types, and using a thumb throttle feels a bit like stabbing at the gas pedal of a car with a stick to me, could not control it at all :P

(Edit: I've tested thumb throttles on other e-bikes, on ATV's, and on one weirdly setup SeaDoo jetski. Hated them all :lol: )

The twist throttle on the Qulbix is sensitive but not madly so in my opinion, easy enough to control once you remember the huge torque available :) But again, my background is from motorcycles and the last 5 years spent off road riding.

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by C158 » Apr 10 2019 11:56am

Hey Ben,

Can you answer some the same questions I asked the other poster? I’d like to hear your thoughts too. We’ve had a little discussion going since I’m guessing you were sleeping :D

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Re: Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

Post by benjamin84 » Apr 10 2019 12:32pm

Not sure I have too much more to add :P For the record I'm 87kg, and the bike seems as mentioned more than powerful enough in ECO mode. But again, that is when using it as a bicycle. If my 690 Enduro motorbike topped out at 55kph I'd be a bit pissed, but they have totally different use-cases for me ;)

As for gearing, I chose the lowest possible gearing because I will never be riding this bike on road, and I'll never want to go faster than 55kph as I have the 690 for higher speed stuff. For your use I think I would have tried the slightly higher gearing, but to be honest 55kph with bicycle tires and brakes felt scary as hell to me :lol:

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