First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

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Steve.Morris   10 µW

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First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by Steve.Morris » Apr 26 2019 5:02pm

Hello;
Hey all - I've been lurking a while and learning about e-bikes. I've decided to do a DIY build and will be building up a BBSHD. I have a plan of action but I would like some feedback from all the other DIY'ers here. I've decided on a mid-drive because given my weight (see below) I fear I'd put excessive stress on the wheel, and chains are easier to replace than a wheel. I wanted to do the TSDZ2 for torque sensing but felt it might be too small for my weight/speed desire - and the BBS Ultra while very cool, is out of my budget for now (I've got my eye on a custom Titanium frame in the future).

First, about me and my commute:
  • I'm an overweight new rider (280lbs) trying to get more exercise and lose weight.
  • My commute is mostly bike-path and mostly downhill to work and uphill home.
  • Trip is 12.5 miles one way (25 miles / 40.2km round trip)
  • On a non-powered bike it takes me almost 1:15hr to get to work and over 2:15hr home
Here are my goals:
  • I would like to commute to work in 35-45 minutes and have the return trip take the same time.
  • I think with an average top speed of no less than 24mph I can accomplish this
  • I plan to ride year round (maybe not ice/snow) - I live in the Pacific NW (USA) and it's wet/rainy here.
  • I plan to pedal mostly, and only use throttle for emergency or early on when I'm still getting in shape.
  • I plan to get skinny (er)
  • I plan to stop using my car!
Here is my planned build:
  • Donor Bike - 2013 Giant XTC
    • Changed tires to be 700c road tires
    • Added cargo rack
    • Will add fenders.
    • Will buy e-bike chain
    • Sub Total: $430
  • BBSHD Kit from em3ev
    • DCP14 Display
    • Right Thumb Throttle Type 1
    • E-brake Sensor for Hydraulic Brakes X 2
    • 100mm BBSHD
    • 30A Programming
    • 46T Stock Chainwheel
    • GearSensor
    • 52V (14S6P) Hard-Case Triangle Pack with Smart BMS and Bag option
    • 58.8V Charger (for 14S, 50/52V Battery) with 80/90/100 switch
    • BBS02/HD Installation & Servicing Tool, from California Ebike
    • Sub Total: $1293
  • Adapter for Press Fit 41 / BB92 (one of these, unsure which)
Grand Total: $1,773

I do have a few questions for anyone who has the time and knowledge:
  • What am I missing?
  • Which Press Fit 41 / BB92 adapter is best (or worst)?
  • Will my stock cassette hold up? Shimano HG62 11x36, 10-Speed
  • Do you think my battery choice is big enough (or too big?) if I want to run it from 80% to 30% on a round trip commute?
  • Does anyone have any experience with the em3ev triangle hard case? How does it mount? Is there any locking of it(keyed?)? Do you just place it in a bag or screw it down or..?
  • Is it worth it to spend the extra $60 to get these instead of the sensors Shimano M355 Hydraulic Brake Levers Ebrake Sensor
  • Should I order from LunaCycles or someone else? (I'm near the limit of my budget as is - but want to order from reputable business).
  • Should I get the programming cable? I will probably run with stock settings initially, but I hear Karl's Special Sauce is worth using. Should I order the cable now, or wait until later.
  • I'm a software engineer by trade and my dad (who'll be helping me) is an electrician - however we've never done this and are not bike mechanic savvy in any way - what do I need to know that I don't know? (I do know I'll either hammer out my old bearings or take it to my LBS and have 'em pressed out)
Thanks for your time and consideration!

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by furcifer » Apr 26 2019 6:07pm

Steve.Morris wrote:
Apr 26 2019 5:02pm
Hello;
Hey all - I've been lurking a while and learning about e-bikes. I've decided to do a DIY build and will be building up a BBSHD. I have a plan of action but I would like some feedback from all the other DIY'ers here. I've decided on a mid-drive because given my weight (see below) I fear I'd put excessive stress on the wheel, and chains are easier to replace than a wheel. I wanted to do the TSDZ2 for torque sensing but felt it might be too small for my weight/speed desire - and the BBS Ultra while very cool, is out of my budget for now (I've got my eye on a custom Titanium frame in the future).

First, about me and my commute:
  • I'm an overweight new rider (280lbs) trying to get more exercise and lose weight.
  • My commute is mostly bike-path and mostly downhill to work and uphill home.
  • Trip is 12.5 miles one way (25 miles / 40.2km round trip)
  • On a non-powered bike it takes me almost 1:15hr to get to work and over 2:15hr home
Here are my goals:
  • I would like to commute to work in 35-45 minutes and have the return trip take the same time.
  • I think with an average top speed of no less than 24mph I can accomplish this
  • I plan to ride year round (maybe not ice/snow) - I live in the Pacific NW (USA) and it's wet/rainy here.
  • I plan to pedal mostly, and only use throttle for emergency or early on when I'm still getting in shape.
  • I plan to get skinny (er)
  • I plan to stop using my car!
Here is my planned build:
  • Donor Bike - 2013 Giant XTC
    • Changed tires to be 700c road tires
    • Added cargo rack
    • Will add fenders.
    • Will buy e-bike chain
    • Sub Total: $430
  • BBSHD Kit from em3ev
    • DCP14 Display
    • Right Thumb Throttle Type 1
    • E-brake Sensor for Hydraulic Brakes X 2
    • 100mm BBSHD
    • 30A Programming
    • 46T Stock Chainwheel
    • GearSensor
    • 52V (14S6P) Hard-Case Triangle Pack with Smart BMS and Bag option
    • 58.8V Charger (for 14S, 50/52V Battery) with 80/90/100 switch
    • BBS02/HD Installation & Servicing Tool, from California Ebike
    • Sub Total: $1293
  • Adapter for Press Fit 41 / BB92 (one of these, unsure which)
Grand Total: $1,773

I do have a few questions for anyone who has the time and knowledge:
  • What am I missing?
  • Which Press Fit 41 / BB92 adapter is best (or worst)?
  • Will my stock cassette hold up? Shimano HG62 11x36, 10-Speed
  • Do you think my battery choice is big enough (or too big?) if I want to run it from 80% to 30% on a round trip commute?
  • Does anyone have any experience with the em3ev triangle hard case? How does it mount? Is there any locking of it(keyed?)? Do you just place it in a bag or screw it down or..?
  • Is it worth it to spend the extra $60 to get these instead of the sensors Shimano M355 Hydraulic Brake Levers Ebrake Sensor
  • Should I order from LunaCycles or someone else? (I'm near the limit of my budget as is - but want to order from reputable business).
  • Should I get the programming cable? I will probably run with stock settings initially, but I hear Karl's Special Sauce is worth using. Should I order the cable now, or wait until later.
  • I'm a software engineer by trade and my dad (who'll be helping me) is an electrician - however we've never done this and are not bike mechanic savvy in any way - what do I need to know that I don't know? (I do know I'll either hammer out my old bearings or take it to my LBS and have 'em pressed out)
Thanks for your time and consideration!
Hi. I'm a newb to this but did a BBSHD install recently. Here's what I've got.

I had a big post about the BB bracket but IMHO stay away from press fit adapters. It's hard to maintain chainline and any adapter is going to make it more pronounced. Older high end dual suspension bikes probably make for cheaper and better donors. IMHO.

Nobody can say if your cassette will hold up, there's so many variables and even with identical setups two different people will have different results. Keep a chain break and link on you at all times.

IMHO PAS wrecks drives on the BBSHD. You can use full throttle to assist as you see fit, you just need to know what gear you are in. You're smarter that a gear sensor or PAS. Probably. :D

I don't see what your Ah are on your battery choice. The bigger the better, you will push it less. Can you charge between commutes? If so that changes your battery needs. 20aH seems like a sweet spot offhand, but it totally depends on how much you pedal and the environmental conditions.

OK, that was FWIW, but my only real suggestion is GET 2 or 3 controllers! At least order a spare, if not 2. When you get the motor take the controller off, familiarize yourself with it, then fill it up with silicone. Get a spare gasket too. The rest are my opinion but this is essential for continuous reliable BBSHD riding. The controllers are temperamental.

Order from Luna. I regret not doing this.They know stuff. If you order from them you probably don't need a programming cable but for $20 you may as well. You may want to have an extra drive gear as well.

tl;dr - chainline is important, controllers are important, hydraulic brakes are important, LUNA is good.

eta: I'd suggest getting familiar with the Park Tool line up. I mentioned a chain break, but a Shimano cassette tool, a bottom bracket tool (depends on the bike you go with), spoke wrench, pedal wrench, BB tool might help. A bleed kit for your brakes, allen key "pod", chain tension gauge, blue lock tight, etc. Hard to say what the importance of these things is but having all can't hurt as much as not having them. You don't have to become a bicycle mechanic to ride an ebike, but it won't hurt.
Last edited by furcifer on Apr 26 2019 6:25pm, edited 1 time in total.

markz   100 GW

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by markz » Apr 26 2019 6:20pm

Save the nut sack massage of the rigid frame, and buy a full suspension bicycle!

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by furcifer » Apr 26 2019 6:34pm

markz wrote:
Apr 26 2019 6:20pm
Save the nut sack massage of the rigid frame, and buy a full suspension bicycle!
^this

If I was going to pick between a new bike and getting a 20 year old full suspension bike for the same price I'd get the full suspension.

"Decent" roads on a bicycle doing 25mph are murder on the sit bones.

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by Steve.Morris » Apr 27 2019 11:41am

Would a Suspension Seat-Post be sufficient?

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by Tommm » Apr 28 2019 6:20am

Steve.Morris wrote:
Apr 27 2019 11:41am
Would a Suspension Seat-Post be sufficient?
It will help, but no. Your battery and motor will still take the rattling punushment. Ideally you need full suspension and a big plush touring seat with rubber or spring inserts. Maybe a sus post additionally. Saving weight by sacricifing comfort doesn't make sense on any commuting vehicle.

You are looking at an average speed of about 35-38kmh, so forget whatever range you have seen quoted for the battery. Depending on how much you pedal, if you plan on using the pack 80% to 20% (which you should), you might need to charge at work.
If you don't feel like pedaling a lot on some days (which if you plan on riding almost all year around will probably happen), you will need to take it slow and charge to 100%, or charge at work to make it back home. Going with high capacity cells like the 35e or mj1 would help a lot.
If you can charge at work I would consider downsizing and getting a jumbo shark with 14s5p. Unsecured frame bags are dangerous and ugly, secured frame boxes reduce stealth. For any pack, ask if they are rain proofed.

The 46t stock is a terrible piece of metal, too big and can't keep the chain on. Expect it to throw a chain on your first pothole. You need a narrow wide chainring like a lekkie, 36t would be ideal.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lekkie-Bling ... 4172264531
I'd get a spacer just to be sure so you can fine tune the chainline.
https://www.brightonebikes.co.uk/store/ ... ng_HD.html

The gear sensor is pointless complexity, skip it, just learn how to shift propely, it is simple.

If you must use that bike, then get the widest possible balloon tire you can fit. It should be a ~2.35" or more road going tire with protection, like a crazy bob or a supermoto-x.

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by donn » Apr 28 2019 10:35am

Just want to point out that you can buy an electric bicycle for that kind of money. It won't be a 24mph average speed ride, but that's really kind of a good thing. Along with legal, safer and more comfortable, it's more efficient - for example, you'll double your battery range, if you cut that down to 18 mph. You might stop by a dealer, get a test ride and see what you think.

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by E-HP » Apr 28 2019 11:33am

Steve.Morris wrote:
Apr 26 2019 5:02pm
First, about me and my commute:
  • I'm an overweight new rider (280lbs) trying to get more exercise and lose weight.
  • My commute is mostly bike-path and mostly downhill to work and uphill home.
  • Trip is 12.5 miles one way (25 miles / 40.2km round trip)
  • On a non-powered bike it takes me almost 1:15hr to get to work and over 2:15hr home
If you're able to ride 12.5 miles uphill for 2:15, then sounds like you're in great shape or the grade isn't too steep. Do you know how steep it is? If the grade is 4% or less it opens up the option of using a hub motor. Even a typical 9C won't overheat, assuming a 350 lb load, but only at 18 mph (which would still make your return commute a little over 40 minutes.

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h ... A&mass=160

If you were lighter, or if you add Statorade, the same motor could go ~7% without overheating, but commute time would be closer to an hour. You could use the simulator to see if what the best motor would be for you commute.

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by markz » Apr 28 2019 12:00pm

Look at the Trip Simulator (BETA) on www.ebikes.ca and go to the left column, all the way down to the last options and click on Google Maps.

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by docw009 » Apr 28 2019 1:28pm

donn wrote:
Apr 28 2019 10:35am
Just want to point out that you can buy an electric bicycle for that kind of money. It won't be a 24mph average speed ride, but that's really kind of a good thing. Along with legal, safer and more comfortable, it's more efficient - for example, you'll double your battery range, if you cut that down to 18 mph. You might stop by a dealer, get a test ride and see what you think.
I think he is counting the price of the bike he bought back in 2013. Take that off, get rid of the gear sensor (I agree - learn how to shift) and he's looking at around $1300, plenty of budget for a BBSHD.

Slow the BBSHD down to 18 mph, ride every days, and that weight will drop. At that point, he could get the BBS02 and a hub motor. Build two bikes. Swap batteries.

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by Steve.Morris » Apr 29 2019 10:32am

E-HP wrote:
Apr 28 2019 11:33am
Steve.Morris wrote:
Apr 26 2019 5:02pm
First, about me and my commute:
  • I'm an overweight new rider (280lbs) trying to get more exercise and lose weight.
  • My commute is mostly bike-path and mostly downhill to work and uphill home.
  • Trip is 12.5 miles one way (25 miles / 40.2km round trip)
  • On a non-powered bike it takes me almost 1:15hr to get to work and over 2:15hr home
If you're able to ride 12.5 miles uphill for 2:15, then sounds like you're in great shape or the grade isn't too steep. Do you know how steep it is? If the grade is 4% or less it opens up the option of using a hub motor. Even a typical 9C won't overheat, assuming a 350 lb load, but only at 18 mph (which would still make your return commute a little over 40 minutes.

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h ... A&mass=160

If you were lighter, or if you add Statorade, the same motor could go ~7% without overheating, but commute time would be closer to an hour. You could use the simulator to see if what the best motor would be for you commute.
I considered a hub motor but my concern was that my weight would be hard on a wheel and I'd be replacing wheels/spokes more often that I'd like to (which, really, is more than 0)

Here's what google maps shows as my elevation for my ride home:
Image

Here is the grade chart
Image

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by Steve.Morris » Apr 29 2019 10:37am

docw009 wrote:
Apr 28 2019 1:28pm
donn wrote:
Apr 28 2019 10:35am
Just want to point out that you can buy an electric bicycle for that kind of money. It won't be a 24mph average speed ride, but that's really kind of a good thing. Along with legal, safer and more comfortable, it's more efficient - for example, you'll double your battery range, if you cut that down to 18 mph. You might stop by a dealer, get a test ride and see what you think.
I think he is counting the price of the bike he bought back in 2013. Take that off, get rid of the gear sensor (I agree - learn how to shift) and he's looking at around $1300, plenty of budget for a BBSHD.

Slow the BBSHD down to 18 mph, ride every days, and that weight will drop. At that point, he could get the BBS02 and a hub motor. Build two bikes. Swap batteries.
Yes, I am counting the cost of the bike I just bought on craigslist - it is a 2013 Giant XTC

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by donn » Apr 29 2019 12:18pm

Steve.Morris wrote:
Apr 29 2019 10:32am
I considered a hub motor but my concern was that my weight would be hard on a wheel and I'd be replacing wheels/spokes more often that I'd like to (which, really, is more than 0)
There's big tires, I guess. Disk brake gives you more rim options, and you should be able to fit 2.35 or thereabouts in there. That's another reason to keep the speed under 20 mph - fast riding on city streets is hard on wheels.

The route should be manageable with a hub motor, in my opinion. I mean, if you set everything up on the motor simulation, for say a 10% grade, you might see it predicting a burn out - in 10-15 minutes. Which gives you over a mile, and your hill is way shorter. A simple direct drive hub can take a lot of abuse. You might be limited to 4% grades if we're talking about mountain passes and the like, but not city hills.

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by Chalo » Apr 29 2019 2:04pm

Riding a bicycle without mechanical suspension works just fine; disregard nonsense to the contrary. You just can't be an inert seat potato if you go that way. On a bicycle (as opposed to a wheelchair, car, or other disabled person's vehicle), you can and should stand up on the pedals when you see a bump or rough surface approaching. Even just transferring weight to the pedals, without necessarily rising off the seat, can help a lot.

If you want to be both brainless and lazy about your riding, then by all means load up on every kind of suspension. But the fact that you already know your 25 mile round trip commute by cycling it without electric assist demonstrates you're not the brainless and lazy kind of rider.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by furcifer » Apr 29 2019 5:23pm

Chalo wrote:
Apr 29 2019 2:04pm
Riding a bicycle without mechanical suspension works just fine; disregard nonsense to the contrary. You just can't be an inert seat potato if you go that way. On a bicycle (as opposed to a wheelchair, car, or other disabled person's vehicle), you can and should stand up on the pedals when you see a bump or rough surface approaching. Even just transferring weight to the pedals, without necessarily rising off the seat, can help a lot.

If you want to be both brainless and lazy about your riding, then by all means load up on every kind of suspension. But the fact that you already know your 25 mile round trip commute by cycling it without electric assist demonstrates you're not the brainless and lazy kind of rider.
You are right and you are wrong.

I mean everything you're saying is correct, it just overlooks the fact that eventually you're going to get forced into the curb or rut in the right lane by a brainless lazy driver in a car and find some crappy pavement that no bicycle was ever made to take at 30mph with +200lbs of weight.

The good thing about a commute is you really get to know the road and be prepared. You can avoid a lot of problems being aware and aggressive in the saddle, but traffic will force you into some bad patches eventually, guaranteed.

Saying otherwise is just false bravado. The first time you have to share the lane with a passing truck through one of those bad patches you usually avoid, you are going to wish you had sprung for the dual suspension, guaranteed.

Or maybe you live where there are magic roads and no traffic.

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by markz » Apr 29 2019 5:27pm

Buy a full suspension fat bicycle with the largest tires out there (5.05-inch), grab a suspension seat post and a suspension seat with big springs, then while your at it go for the suspension stem. and do not forget the suspension wheel! oh too old skool you say, then this is newage fancy dancy bs should do the trick.\

Safer stem suspension, Specialized - https://bikerumor.com/2016/09/09/quanti ... uspension/

Then while your at it, save money on not buying a chain, nor a freewheel/cassette or derailleurs or shifters. :shock:


Fancier fork suspension
Favorit-F3-Adventure_custom-carbon-Gates-belt-drive-internal-gear-hub-gravel-adventure-touring-road-bike_Lauf-Grit-suspension-fork.jpg






Edit: I forgot to add to the list the slip on seat cushioning.
Last edited by markz on Apr 29 2019 7:28pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by donn » Apr 29 2019 6:14pm

Or just ride it like a bicycle, for which a bicycle should serve pretty well. It isn't the motor that's creating this need for suspension and 5 inch tires and so forth, it's the motor-scooter speed range. That will also work in favor of your fitness goals. As you go up the scale, from 10mph to 15, 20, 25mph, the division of labor between your legs and the motor trends geometrically more towards the motor, to the point where eventually you're kind of irrelevant. At the low end, you can ease in and out between pedal and motor power and the division makes sense, makes a big difference in range etc. At the high end, you can fool around with the pedals but it don't make much difference at all.

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by Chalo » Apr 30 2019 2:24am

furcifer wrote:
Apr 29 2019 5:23pm
I mean everything you're saying is correct, it just overlooks the fact that eventually you're going to get forced into the curb or rut in the right lane by a brainless lazy driver in a car and find some crappy pavement that no bicycle was ever made to take at 30mph with +200lbs of weight.
What do I know? I have only been using a bicycle as primary transportation for most of the years since the late 1980s. I guess I've never been forced off the road by a retarded piece of cheese in any way that suspension would have helped, but that must be dumb luck. And there was that period of my life when I reached 55mph, give or take, every day on the way to work-- without suspension, at a body weight close to 400 pounds. Somehow my bicycles managed to do it, as did I. More dumb luck.

The key to hauling extra weight at high speed on a bike isn't suspension. It's having a bike that's good to haul extra weight at high speeds.

If sellers of special gee-whiz equipment have persuaded you that you need special gee-whiz equipment to do these things, I doubt I can convince you otherwise. But be advised it costs extra money, displaces things like battery and cargo that you might rather bring with you, and will cause your bike to die early. 12 year old suspension bikes that come into my shop are in sorrier shape than 40 year old actual bikes.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by wturber » Apr 30 2019 3:09am

donn wrote:
Apr 29 2019 6:14pm
Or just ride it like a bicycle, for which a bicycle should serve pretty well. It isn't the motor that's creating this need for suspension and 5 inch tires and so forth, it's the motor-scooter speed range. That will also work in favor of your fitness goals. As you go up the scale, from 10mph to 15, 20, 25mph, the division of labor between your legs and the motor trends geometrically more towards the motor, to the point where eventually you're kind of irrelevant. At the low end, you can ease in and out between pedal and motor power and the division makes sense, makes a big difference in range etc. At the high end, you can fool around with the pedals but it don't make much difference at all.
It is true that at higher speeds you aren't really doing that much. But install a PAS system and it really doesn't matter because it feels like you are doing the work - so you just keep putting in the effort - and whether it is a low percent of what makes you go or not, it is still real work from your legs. I suppose that how this works may depend on the person riding. I've ridden bicycles for so many years that it just seems odd if I go very far at all - even downhill - without pedaling. I just naturally find myself pedaling at an effort to to have enough energy to finish the ride - just as I do on an unassisted bike.

I've monitored my heart rate on the same route with my e-bike and my unassisted road bike and the main difference is that my hear rate peaks to around 140 bpm climbing hills on the unassisted road bike and between 120 and 130 bpm on the e-bike. That's a good fat burn heart rate BTW. But on the road bike, I'd rest more on the downhills to recover after the harder uphill effort. The e-bike acts like a hill flattener and I ride at a steadier overall rate.

Maybe another factor is that I have a direct drive rear motor with about 1000 watts peak input. This motor doesn't have the torque to go up steep hills all by itself. So I just plan on standing up and blasting up the hills almost as fast as I can. I can always recover with the motor's help once I'm either at the top or past the steep parts.

Also, riding a hard tail is no problem at all at sub-30 mph speeds. Just ride light in the saddle. Heck, on a road bike you'd learn to hop over rough spots. I do have a front suspension, but I'm not sure it is needed. As for beating up the bike. I dunno. Once I got everything tightened down good, nothing has shaken loose. I'm at about 7700 miles on the bike.

I suggest that the OP NOT change the wheels but instead keep the Mountain Bike wheels that came with the bike. Rolling resistance isn't much of an issue once you have a motor.
Last edited by wturber on May 08 2019 3:48pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by furcifer » Apr 30 2019 6:38am

Chalo wrote:
Apr 30 2019 2:24am
More dumb luck.
Exactly.

I don't see the point of relying on luck and making your life more difficult just to avoid spending a couple hundred bucks. There are plenty of good bikes out there you can get for next to nothing. It just takes some knowledge and the patience to watch for them and jump on them when you get the chance.

The same principles apply to riding a full suspension bike. You still need to pay attention to the road ahead, ride light in the saddle and be aware of your surroundings. The only difference is that you'll end up having a smoother ride with more control doing so on a bike with suspension.

eta: it's by no means impossible to ride a rigid frame ebike. it's just unnecessary.

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wturber   1 MW

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by wturber » Apr 30 2019 8:50am

furcifer wrote:
Apr 30 2019 6:38am
Chalo wrote:
Apr 30 2019 2:24am
More dumb luck.
eta: it's by no means impossible to ride a rigid frame ebike. it's just unnecessary.
Well a motor isn't necessary either. But it does have its benefits ... as does a rigid frame.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by furcifer » Apr 30 2019 8:57am

wturber wrote:
Apr 30 2019 8:50am
furcifer wrote:
Apr 30 2019 6:38am
Chalo wrote:
Apr 30 2019 2:24am
More dumb luck.
eta: it's by no means impossible to ride a rigid frame ebike. it's just unnecessary.
Well a motor isn't necessary either. But it does have its benefits ... as does a rigid frame.
There's no benefit of a rigid frame. In fact the opposite is true. That's just a fact. It seems odd to even argue it, there's +100 years of automotive technology to prove this. You can ride a rigid frame but it's stupid. I'm not sure what else there is to say?

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by RunForTheHills » Apr 30 2019 10:01am

I am still waiting for parts for my build and I haven't ridden an electric bike much, but I have put a lot of miles on rigid framed bikes with no issues getting up on the pedals to absorb the bumps. I feel like I am missing something in the argument for full suspension bikes, but maybe it is one of those things you have to learn from experience. That said, I can think of a few stretches of bike path that I avoid because roots have caused the pavement to heave up.

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by wturber » Apr 30 2019 11:12am

furcifer wrote:
Apr 30 2019 8:57am

There's no benefit of a rigid frame. In fact the opposite is true. That's just a fact. It seems odd to even argue it, there's +100 years of automotive technology to prove this. You can ride a rigid frame but it's stupid. I'm not sure what else there is to say?
Of course there is. Less cost. Lower weight. Greater efficiency. Greater flexibility for mounting racks etc. Lower maintenance. If I thought about it a bit, I could probably list more. A bicycle is not an automobile. Conflating the two is perhaps what has led you to misunderstand.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: First E-Bike - Doing DIY BBSHD - Critique my plan

Post by wturber » Apr 30 2019 11:22am

RunForTheHills wrote:
Apr 30 2019 10:01am
I am still waiting for parts for my build and I haven't ridden an electric bike much, but I have put a lot of miles on rigid framed bikes with no issues getting up on the pedals to absorb the bumps. I feel like I am missing something in the argument for full suspension bikes, but maybe it is one of those things you have to learn from experience. That said, I can think of a few stretches of bike path that I avoid because roots have caused the pavement to heave up.
It is situational and preferential. If you have really rough roads, full suspension is something worth considering, but it makes rigging for carrying stuff harder. And that can be important for a commuter. If you ride heavy on the saddle you might want rear suspension or a suspension seatpost.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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