TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Electric Motors and Controllers
John_Smith   1 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by John_Smith » Aug 24 2022 2:24am

I was trying to flash STVP without shutting it down.
When I compiled & flashed it after shutting it down properly, it worked and the command prompt screen disappeared by itself.
Does this mean that I flashed it correctly?

endlessolli   10 W

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by endlessolli » Aug 24 2022 2:50am

John_Smith wrote:
Aug 24 2022 2:24am
I was trying to flash STVP without shutting it down.
When I compiled & flashed it after shutting it down properly, it worked and the command prompt screen disappeared by itself.
Does this mean that I flashed it correctly?
yes. (If there are errors, the command line screen remains open)

Elinx   10 kW

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by Elinx » Aug 24 2022 2:58am

John_Smith wrote:
Aug 24 2022 2:24am
I was trying to flash STVP without shutting it down.
When I compiled & flashed it after shutting it down properly, it worked ......
If all was running without errors, you have flashed OSF :thumb:

At the screenshot you refer before, read the last line before the fail notification
"....... check that a previcious session is closed."

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by endlessolli » Aug 24 2022 3:14am

(Another) question to @mbrusa :

I have a couple of TSDZ2s now in the family - some running your Firmware (v20.1C.2-1-VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18) and some the one from mspider65.
I am trying to calibrate them that they all 'roughly' match in terms of support for each power level (We always use Power Assist Mode)
For that I want to calibrate them all, however, this works with different parameters in your firmware (no & max weight and 'estimated' Pedal Torque ADC step) and mspider65 firmware (using Torque ADC Offset (no weight) and Torque ADC Factor) .

mspider65 calculation for Power Assist Mode:
Ct = Cyclist Torque (Nm) = Tdelta * Tf / 100
with: To = Torque ADC Offset, Tf = Torque ADC Factor; Tv = Current Torque ADC value and Tdelta = Tv - To
see here: viewtopic.php?p=1729512&sid=fd9a7f8ae4e ... 8#p1729512

Could youshare your calculation esp how the derived estimated Torque ADC step is calculated (in the greyed out field next to 'Estimated'):
calibration_parameter.JPG
calibration_parameter.JPG (90.37 KiB) Viewed 654 times
That would help me a lot - thanks;
Heiner

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by John_Smith » Aug 24 2022 3:41am

endlessolli wrote:
Aug 24 2022 2:50am
yes. (If there are errors, the command line screen remains open)
Elinx wrote:
Aug 24 2022 2:58am
If all was running without errors, you have flashed OSF :thumb:

At the screenshot you refer before, read the last line before the fail notification
"....... check that a previcious session is closed."
Now that we're safely operating at legal power, life will be easier from here on out!
Thank you very much!

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by mbrusa » Aug 25 2022 11:39am

endlessolli wrote:
Aug 24 2022 3:14am
(Another) question to @mbrusa :

I have a couple of TSDZ2s now in the family - some running your Firmware (v20.1C.2-1-VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18) and some the one from mspider65.
I am trying to calibrate them that they all 'roughly' match in terms of support for each power level (We always use Power Assist Mode)
For that I want to calibrate them all, however, this works with different parameters in your firmware (no & max weight and 'estimated' Pedal Torque ADC step) and mspider65 firmware (using Torque ADC Offset (no weight) and Torque ADC Factor) .

mspider65 calculation for Power Assist Mode:
Ct = Cyclist Torque (Nm) = Tdelta * Tf / 100
with: To = Torque ADC Offset, Tf = Torque ADC Factor; Tv = Current Torque ADC value and Tdelta = Tv - To
see here: viewtopic.php?p=1729512&sid=fd9a7f8ae4e ... 8#p1729512

Could youshare your calculation esp how the derived estimated Torque ADC step is calculated (in the greyed out field next to 'Estimated'):
calibration_parameter.JPG
That would help me a lot - thanks;
Heiner
So, the two parameters "Pedal torque ADC offset" and "Pedal torque ADC max", are used only to calculate the range, in your case 280-200 = 80.
Any calculated range value is amplified to 160.
This value (160) can be changed with "Pedal torque range adjusment" +/- 20.
It is also possible to modify the trend of the curve with "Pedal torque angle adjusment" +/- 20.
"Pedal torque offset adjusment", on the other hand, changes the sensitivity at the start +14, -20.
Look at the Torque_calibration.xlsx file, try changing the values to yellow and see what changes in the chart.
The curve is just an example, each sensor has its own.

"Estimated" is only used to calculate human power when calibration is disabled, when it is enabled it is not needed.

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by endlessolli » Aug 25 2022 2:05pm

mbrusa wrote:
Aug 25 2022 11:39am

So, the two parameters "Pedal torque ADC offset" and "Pedal torque ADC max", are used only to calculate the range, in your case 280-200 = 80.
Any calculated range value is amplified to 160.
This value (160) can be changed with "Pedal torque range adjusment" +/- 20.
It is also possible to modify the trend of the curve with "Pedal torque angle adjusment" +/- 20.
"Pedal torque offset adjusment", on the other hand, changes the sensitivity at the start +14, -20.
Look at the Torque_calibration.xlsx file, try changing the values to yellow and see what changes in the chart.
The curve is just an example, each sensor has its own.

"Estimated" is only used to calculate human power when calibration is disabled, when it is enabled it is not needed.
Thank you, mbrusa!
(I still don't know how to match a calibration between a bike w/ your firmware and another with mspider65 firmware.
But I am learning a lot from your feedback)

What I did not understand is the statement above.
Because when I uncheck 'Calibrated' (-> calibration disabled) the 'Estimated' box is greyed out / can not be selected. That does not fit logically to the statement above or at least I don't understand it.
-> Can you clarify that?

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by draxx318 » Aug 26 2022 5:48am

Hi, I'm new to the TSDZ2 world and I'm considering going the OSF way. Does OSF come with parameters already set and good to go or do I have to configure them by myself?

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by John_Smith » Aug 26 2022 6:52am

draxx318 wrote:
Aug 26 2022 5:48am
Hi, I'm new to the TSDZ2 world and I'm considering going the OSF way. Does OSF come with parameters already set and good to go or do I have to configure them by myself?
I think it is possible to use it as it is, but if you are going to use OSF, I think it would be more comfortable to set it to the parameters you want.

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by Piper J3 » Aug 26 2022 7:23am

TSDZ2 on my Trek 8.5DS… I love the motor and the OSF. Display graphics are fantastic. Motor power is very good – using Hybrid mode and mostly power level 5 on level terrain. Torque sensing is seamless and power is extremely smooth and quiet. I’m 70 YO and hope to be riding another ten years…
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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by gfmoore » Aug 26 2022 7:56am

:thumb: and hopefully another 20 years at least after that :D
Known purveyor of useless questions :roll:

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by mbrusa » Aug 26 2022 10:37am

endlessolli wrote:
Aug 25 2022 2:05pm
Thank you, mbrusa!
(I still don't know how to match a calibration between a bike w/ your firmware and another with mspider65 firmware.
But I am learning a lot from your feedback)

What I did not understand is the statement above.
Because when I uncheck 'Calibrated' (-> calibration disabled) the 'Estimated' box is greyed out / can not be selected. That does not fit logically to the statement above or at least I don't understand it.
-> Can you clarify that?
Here are the clarifications you asked for.
The choice of whether to use the calibration parameters is made with "Torque sensor advanced", it can be enabled / disabled in the configurator, or on the display.
"Calibrated" is only a confirmation that the values ​​have been entered in "Pedal torque adc offset" and "Pedal torque adc max", this confirmation is necessary to avoid that by enabling only "Torque sensor advanced" the default values ​​are used.
When "Torque sensor advanced" and "Calibrated" are enabled, "Pedal torque adc step advanced" is used in the assistance calculation in Power mode.
With "Torque sensor advanced" disabled, "Pedal torque adc step" is used instead, "Estimated" refers only to this parameter.
In order to enable "Estimated" it is however necessary to enter the values ​​of "Pedal torque ADC offset" and "Pedal torque ADC max", and enable "Calibrated".
After having done the calibration and enabled "Estimated", with "Pedal torque advanced" enabled or disabled you have the same assistance, but only in Power mode.
This feature can be used by those who need to have two different configurations.
One with "Torque sensor advanced" disabled, the other by enabling it and using "Pedal torque adc range adj" and "Pedal torque adc angle adj" for the differences.

If you want the assistance levels to match on all bikes, just do the calibration by entering the calibration values ​​and enabling "Torque sensor advanced" and "Calibrated". It is important that "Pedal torque adc max" is obtained by the same person (same weight).
For the version of mspider65 I don't know, I believe the basic calculation is the same.
If I understand correctly, he multiplies "Pedal torque delta" * "Torque ADC Factor", I do the same, but "Torque ADC Factor" is not a parameter to be entered, it is calculated from "Pedal torque range" obtained from the calibration and " Pedal torque range target "(160).
I wrote in a hurry, I hope it is understandable.

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by draxx318 » Aug 26 2022 1:36pm

John_Smith wrote:
Aug 26 2022 6:52am
draxx318 wrote:
Aug 26 2022 5:48am
Hi, I'm new to the TSDZ2 world and I'm considering going the OSF way. Does OSF come with parameters already set and good to go or do I have to configure them by myself?
I think it is possible to use it as it is, but if you are going to use OSF, I think it would be more comfortable to set it to the parameters you want.
I get your point. The thing is im new to the ebike world and a lot of terms in the configurator are new ro me. What i want to achive with OSF is overall better performance.

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by John_Smith » Aug 26 2022 2:19pm

draxx318 wrote:
Aug 26 2022 1:36pm

I get your point. The thing is im new to the ebike world and a lot of terms in the configurator are new ro me. What i want to achive with OSF is overall better performance.
I am not that knowledgeable, so I don't have advanced knowledge, but if you don't have a clear goal, you may be able to just make basic settings related to maximum speed, tire circumference, and battery, and leave the rest at the OSF preset settings.

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by draxx318 » Aug 27 2022 1:49am

John_Smith wrote:
Aug 26 2022 2:19pm
I am not that knowledgeable, so I don't have advanced knowledge, but if you don't have a clear goal, you may be able to just make basic settings related to maximum speed, tire circumference, and battery, and leave the rest at the OSF preset settings.
Thats what i had in mind. Just wanted to know if presets exists. Thanx.

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by endlessolli » Aug 27 2022 5:14am

mbrusa wrote:
Aug 26 2022 10:37am
Here are the clarifications you asked for.
The choice of whether to use the calibration parameters is made with "Torque sensor advanced", it can be enabled / disabled in the configurator, or on the display.
"Calibrated" is only a confirmation that the values ​​have been entered in "Pedal torque adc offset" and "Pedal torque adc max", this confirmation is necessary to avoid that by enabling only "Torque sensor advanced" the default values ​​are used.
When "Torque sensor advanced" and "Calibrated" are enabled, "Pedal torque adc step advanced" is used in the assistance calculation in Power mode.
With "Torque sensor advanced" disabled, "Pedal torque adc step" is used instead, "Estimated" refers only to this parameter.
In order to enable "Estimated" it is however necessary to enter the values ​​of "Pedal torque ADC offset" and "Pedal torque ADC max", and enable "Calibrated".
After having done the calibration and enabled "Estimated", with "Pedal torque advanced" enabled or disabled you have the same assistance, but only in Power mode.
This feature can be used by those who need to have two different configurations.
One with "Torque sensor advanced" disabled, the other by enabling it and using "Pedal torque adc range adj" and "Pedal torque adc angle adj" for the differences.

If you want the assistance levels to match on all bikes, just do the calibration by entering the calibration values ​​and enabling "Torque sensor advanced" and "Calibrated". It is important that "Pedal torque adc max" is obtained by the same person (same weight).
For the version of mspider65 I don't know, I believe the basic calculation is the same.
If I understand correctly, he multiplies "Pedal torque delta" * "Torque ADC Factor", I do the same, but "Torque ADC Factor" is not a parameter to be entered, it is calculated from "Pedal torque range" obtained from the calibration and " Pedal torque range target "(160).
I wrote in a hurry, I hope it is understandable.
Thank you for your patience explainig this....
After reading this about 5 times plus your 2 manuals from github I *think* I know how calibration is done now....

With regards to matching with mspider65 firmware calibration: His default value for "Torque ADC Factor" is 67 - same as your default value for "Pedal torque adc step"; so I assume (hope) these are the same parameters. (After all, you both started form the same firmware version, I think. Therefor I hope this is a fair assumption)

So here is how I plan to match (For your firmare, I do everything in the java configurator - not on the display):
On your firmware, I will
a) Checkmark "Torque sensor adv."; "Calibrated"; "Estimated" (this last one I need also later for mspider65 firmware... see c))
b) Measure and enter values for
- no weight on pedal -> goes into "Pedal torque ADC offset" and
- my weight on Pedal -> goes to "Pedal torque ADC max" and
c) When I have done the above, in the greyed out box next to "Estimated", a new value shows, relating to the other entered parameters. That value I will use in mspider65 firmware parameter "Torque ADC Factor" (as I think that is the same as your "Pedal torque adc step")

It will be another 2 weeks until I have the relevant bikes at hand - I will report back if matching worked as expected....

Again big thanks for your and mspider65 (and many others) work on improving the TSDZ2!

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by John_Smith » Aug 30 2022 5:24am

I would like to know the ratio of assist power per speed, is there somewhere I can check?

badtrader   100 µW

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by badtrader » Sep 03 2022 3:27am

Hello, I am having trouble flashing the firmware onto the device. For reference I am using VLCD5

I attempted to flash the tsdz2 using the java configurer, seemed to work perfectly, cmd closed out of itself, no hanging around error message. But when I plug in the battery and turn on the screen I seem to only have the factory firmware. I set mph in the configurer yet it is still km/h. Walk mode is not able to be entered, data values are not showing what I selected, etc.

Not sure what I am doing wrong. I checked voltage of pins and it is indeed 5v so v1 controller and should be flashable. Does the display need to be connected during flashing? I have tried both ways to no results. Am I correct that the battery should be disconnected during flashing?

Thank you for this firmware it looks great

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by Elinx » Sep 03 2022 5:39am

badtrader wrote:
Sep 03 2022 3:27am
...
I attempted to flash the tsdz2 using the java configurer, seemed to work perfectly, cmd closed out of itself, no hanging around error message. But when I plug in the battery and turn on the screen I seem to only have the factory firmware. ....
mph must be set too on display.
What happens if you switch on the display?
If you have the default data settings, you should see for a short time 999 with full charged batterie.

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by badtrader » Sep 03 2022 11:11am

Elinx wrote:
Sep 03 2022 5:39am
badtrader wrote:
Sep 03 2022 3:27am
...
I attempted to flash the tsdz2 using the java configurer, seemed to work perfectly, cmd closed out of itself, no hanging around error message. But when I plug in the battery and turn on the screen I seem to only have the factory firmware. ....
mph must be set too on display.
What happens if you switch on the display?
If you have the default data settings, you should see for a short time 999 with full charged batterie.
If i switch on the lights it will cycle between the same 3 values, although i set in the configurer to only show one value permanently (length of 0). Also holding minus for 3 seconds doesnt give any indication that walk mode is active. Is there a UI indicator that walk mode is happening? (I dont have motor connected to bike yet). I do see 99.9 when the display is powered on, but none of the setting selected in the configurer seem to be active.

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by Elinx » Sep 03 2022 1:06pm

badtrader wrote:
Sep 03 2022 11:11am
.... I do see 99.9 when the display is powered on, but none of the setting selected in the configurer seem to be active.
You have flashed OSF.
If you have flashed most default settings, you haven't enabled "set parameters at startup"
You can do this by:
Assist level 0 (zero) push 2x light button

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by badtrader » Sep 03 2022 9:08pm

Elinx wrote:
Sep 03 2022 1:06pm
badtrader wrote:
Sep 03 2022 11:11am
.... I do see 99.9 when the display is powered on, but none of the setting selected in the configurer seem to be active.
You have flashed OSF.
If you have flashed most default settings, you haven't enabled "set parameters at startup"
You can do this by:
Assist level 0 (zero) push 2x light button
Actually upon relooking I do not see 99.9 on startup. I did see that the first time but my battery was fully charged. I think it is showing battery %. Now it is showing 95.7 on startup. I reflashed with "set parameters on startup" and dont see any apparent changes.

Pressing lights on results in E02 followed by 3 values cycling over and over. I have installed a temperature sensor and am trying to display this value to test the functionality.

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by Elinx » Sep 04 2022 4:40am

badtrader wrote:
Sep 03 2022 9:08pm
...battery %. Now it is showing 95.7 .... dont see any apparent changes.

Pressing lights on results in E02 followed by 3 values cycling over and over. I have installed a temperature sensor and am trying to display this value to test the functionality.
With flashing OSF your display will not have another appearance.
Everything is done with what you see before too. The speed value will display all data values.

Again if you have flashed most default settings you see 3 data values: 1= Soc%, 2= Voltage and 10= Wh
The sixt default datavalue is temperature, which you never will see.

Solution:
Change on 3e tab (advanced settings) inside javaconfigurator one of these datavalues to 0 = Temperature
Like this 1, 2, 0, you will see Soc%, Voltage, Temperature
NB. on first tab (basic settings) you must enable temperature too

If you want to change more from defaults, please read the configuration manual step by step.

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by badtrader » Sep 04 2022 12:25pm

Elinx wrote:
Sep 04 2022 4:40am
badtrader wrote:
Sep 03 2022 9:08pm
...battery %. Now it is showing 95.7 .... dont see any apparent changes.

Pressing lights on results in E02 followed by 3 values cycling over and over. I have installed a temperature sensor and am trying to display this value to test the functionality.
With flashing OSF your display will not have another appearance.
Everything is done with what you see before too. The speed value will display all data values.

Again if you have flashed most default settings you see 3 data values: 1= Soc%, 2= Voltage and 10= Wh
The sixt default datavalue is temperature, which you never will see.

Solution:
Change on 3e tab (advanced settings) inside javaconfigurator one of these datavalues to 0 = Temperature
Like this 1, 2, 0, you will see Soc%, Voltage, Temperature
NB. on first tab (basic settings) you must enable temperature too

If you want to change more from defaults, please read the configuration manual step by step.
Thank you for the assistance. I have read the manual thoroughly. I have already set the settings changing temperature to Slot one with value 0. I set limit of # of data to show to 1 so that only temperature should be showing. I set the length of time to appear to 0 so that it is continuously displayed. I have enabled temperature sensor in the basic settings. Yet despite this it is cycling through the same 3 values. I am at a loss what to try.

Also the manual states that each data should be displayed by default for 5 seconds. On my screen it is much quicker each data only displays for a second or less. From the manual "By default 2 data are displayed, 1 - residual battery percentage, 2 - battery voltage, for a time of 5 seconds each." This is not the behavior I am seeing

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by Elinx » Sep 04 2022 3:34pm

badtrader wrote:
Sep 04 2022 12:25pm
..... I have enabled temperature sensor in the basic settings. Yet despite this it is cycling through the same 3 values. I am at a loss what to try.

... 5 seconds. On my screen it is much quicker each data only displays for a second or less. From the manual "By default 2 data are displayed, 1 - residual battery percentage, 2 - battery voltage, for a time of 5 seconds each.".....
Are you saying that despite the changes done in the configurator, nothing has changed?
You still don't see the temperature?
Are you sure you haven't switched between ini files after changing boxes?
I ask because it looks you have flashed an old ini file again.

About the faster timing I haven't an explanation.

About displaying 2 or 3 data values. I see that, with latest OSF version, the default setting is changed from 2 to 3 values, but the display manual isn't changed for that.

EDIT:
I read that maybe there could be a bug with displaying data values on Level 1 (eco), please try level 2/3/4 with same settings
Last edited by Elinx on Sep 06 2022 4:20am, edited 3 times in total.

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