MY1020 Oil or Water Cooled

GoldenBunip

10 mW
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
27
Hello, again it's been a while. So long I had to remake my account.
The question is Gearbox oil or Water.

Background.
Over the summer I have been transforming a child's quad.
It started life with a Brushed motor, Lead-acid batteries and could only move one child and not very far or fast.

It's now on 36V 27AH (more cells on the way) of HG2 copies, with 50amp bms, Kelly controller, air suspension.
It was carrying me (80KG) + one of my boys (20KG) cross country for about 10 miles. It was quicker and faster than a brand new 50cc quad of a similar size.
The issue was the motor was getting HOT. I put a 120mm fan with ducting on it. But the other day it started running rough, now after about a min of use, it loses one of the phases and runs like a 2stroke with no power.

Opened the motor to find this.
AM-JKLW50hLp5zmAZr-5QNxcOIbvAiM_KFqMc3qvkhiW2PPUoFgUhceXy5Iz9TI0wJh5YBLE_Z8XGJC9g5EHPeQh5S2d7MZbqX2DGu8ztnWgNKGWydqIELl1qNIsUJHjw7BDqyd1FGa7WxkFUqapreUdiB1Y=w2044-h1534-no

8HAuPMq5aD9I_QQMlpn0MklkK9-Dx4W0zX6UN_py-suxRMv_M0Yh0xW8P8rkG552CQ7Ukxn8fEnMbPMLIqnN5UWVJ6ms1MflpDC8LoeWkytzq0hoa-5W51OlzlfstADHxBqEa7hB_L8BoLQSTOH3YZI5SyrijVwqLbuGs0O59AniV632ygBeCDyPIB1AouKcjnf0fdasRNkPbWMxOsL8s-OxNxeI-OPOzlyY8-SNpb75KqQQcMFlSXLDI9o2siatMm92NFwI_ZIs3Z8YvnTeogBaRSdII85aIP1kzRWqp5t826ifn36IzkIp7lsZIp8eiT1lEYyYmx_WMhKFQp7yGb3YD3O8XS6t03yMz9evxhbHvvWnhZ6cUzTLah-1SaBvurDYZXkWrjc244YsF_MmjpCtmH0ZtmBl_ailvVRlaqvBm_JLD0ZR6i1n1D8tarsLp0iF4j0mBNYdTHsakyLdbsuJzoXOm91GtuqTKLH3-yEU7A34IR_lMgSPzuGl32yQPQRDvoxGvGx-gm2Nclg1m3Z_-zafkqKnsX1ViCXQ_2IuF91V-HvKSCbizJeiFJ31wiWy_Kg9NuAfTejutGuB2ixtVksuWupDmx8Mqjqan9HhbYZ90ety46fiiKVltL-85f-EMVeUO2pRCGOklVCezjTJE4QqvswUtEwdJIyMuEfpZ0sWQKKPvtLFiPX8wpyxVu9dGkeg19BYqpSU4xk2NS5K=w1440-h1918-no


SO onto Propper cooling. the plan is to push Oil or Water through the motor, and past a rad. I've lots of experience with PC water cooling and will be using bits from that.

To start with I have taken the old ends off, and sealed the holes with resin.
U9y-2sMgwwFCwMcyUc5UcPC8EMcQPWads-LJcM-4pnSG8UA1RUKVAp50Yf61pWiwLd3RoN1dsQEhckzROkYuf58KDa-jcX5dVOTlf2Q8OdqkWN3K1uT5t0P6hcl3yM8rxvU9GDr3BRrTdUVjBaq6v7k0UIe0mJwqKH4TmdaJrBVYjpe33dD778CmK2b7-c0C8qH06qLHZkdAcXyHVuTOgWLyCHnVM5rjcRhqA-mJ6ZiQ_5HV3i0Wu05y6gsD9Ras7gqwl5zs6faJheLzFYLqGQVvao8Lnj03mSy3vcjwOSu5y57-a2yqdgPlpsNkYtABeM7Y9HDUdWITQVtOcxSqrIxgrS0gbrHEdWFe4bLp7SpkYjVRHP5pi3FCE0bUjsJgNAdV35fmayH_0nISjchwunI_FToE_KJ1sn_1hkhGscOz5nWro_j9QB3vYZfWECG7Uz-dwai9Vj473VvFNOIUTPeOXW9qF0LSnmpuqHkdJHAiePJM1FTd5UU-ayrZFQV05LPaWv6H9raouaqQsqtezVb8DtxCnfm1y_QWa7fI1Vxvz4JXLKX8kL7NkPlJiaBfi3OtQXB8PAwjRr4v0PEOX7HdYydAXiusc4YXkbkfR-YQSbd32BSAMIPYQdL9XpvwDvX2Eb8J3GDiqCWYWTFqIAEL2ew1ns9U9_Kxh77Uxh_FXjHmzZPITtuLvS1VZihPlMOCAQAmk8DSHK7aoSODs3Db=w2044-h1534-no


Next up is to drill and G1/4 Tap holes in them.

When the replacement motor arrives I will seal the bearings and wire port with silicone sealant and hopefully have a watertight motor hose.

Thus do I push deionized water with PC additives (with anti-corrosives/conductance in it) which will be the best cooling, but possible issues later on.
OR
push gearbox oil through it, which will be less colling but I think safer option!
 
Still not decided if I will push gearbox oil or deionised water with anticorrosive agents through the motor.


But the pump, rad and fan are now mounted.
The ends off my dud motor now have a g1/4 fitting on each end.

Both options measure no measurable conductivity.
Both options have a relative magnetic reluctance the same as air.
 
With all due respect, that's dumb. Use a more efficient motor, or a bigger one that's rated for more power. You simply overdrove the motor and cooked the magnets, and making a leaky mess won't fix the basic problem.

Unite motors are not efficient, and they'll always make a troublesome amount of heat if you push them beyond their ratings. So don't do that.
 
The old motor is a dud now. Replacement is on it way. The cooling is for the new motor.
There just isn’t a motor with more torque available that will fit and none are designed for excessive use with the quads +mine + a kids weight.
I could go up voltage, but it’s already scary fast for the kids.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
More torque is not what you need. You already demonstrated that the torque you forced the motor to make, burned it up. The same motor architecture will always make more heat when it makes more torque. That's the deal.

Whatever that motor was rated for, if you run it at that rating you probably won't burn it. You're not doing that, and you're getting the results of not doing it.

If you need more torque or power, overdriving a motor that's rated for less torque and power isn't the right way to get it.
 
Use thermal potting compound (I'd suggest polyurethane) to pot the stator windings. Secondly, use temperature sensor and a controller that either dials back power or cuts it when reatching upper temp. limit.
 
@Chalo
You’re really not helpful.
Motor is rated for 30amps, but running that load on it generates heat. With a large continuous load that’s too much heat for the motor to dissipate, even with a good airflow on it.

Industrial and automotive motors are all liquid cooled. Guess what they don’t just magic up some larger motor up.

If you played with pushing hub motors you would know a very common hack is to fill them with oil to help transfer heat from the windings to the case. I’m just going full on cooling loop.
May not be your cup of tea, but it sure will be the most efficient way of pulling out vast amount of heat from the motor.
 
minimum said:
Use thermal potting compound (I'd suggest polyurethane) to pot the stator windings. Secondly, use temperature sensor and a controller that either dials back power or cuts it when reatching upper temp. limit.
Interesting suggestion, Would help get heat to the surface, not sure by how much as the winnings are tightly fit in there and thermally bridged to the surface already.
 
Chalo is right. A 30 amp motor just isnt enough to push and adult and a kid. Also thats an inrunner. Not the best design for getting the maximum torque from a motor, they are better at producing high speeds.

If you're pumping oil or water thru an inrunner, wont that produce parasitic drag on the moving parts that are designed to spin in air?

I see that motor has built in mounting flanges. Maybe if you provide their dimensions we could come up with a motor and mounting bracket that would bolt directly to your setup and play nice with that Kelly controller and BMS.
 
I’ve got 130mm of width from the chain sprocket along the axial of rotation. Which the current motor is.
200mm front to back.
About 300mm of hight
So room for a fatter motor.

All three dimensions are constrained by things I can’t change (foot pads, suspension, frame)

Any suggestions for motors that fit in that space are welcome. It was originally designed for the brushed 1020.
 
When pushing a brushed motor hard, there are several areas that may become a failure point. Its possible for the motor to look baked, but the brushes are the part that "fried". Your plan to add active liquid cooling may work on the new brushed motor, but I would begin researching a brushless motor option.

If the liquid-cooled brushed motor works for this application, then you are fine. If the second motor has issues, I would suggest the third motor be brushless to eliminate one more weak link.

One benefit of a brushed motor is that the controllers can be very simple and affordable, so if you go the brushless route, you will definitely need a new controller and it will cost as much as the motor.
 
Just wondering if you can not change the gearing if it's plenty fast.

This motor is shorter but do not know the OD of your current motor and to lazy to do the math. :lol:
 
Updates on my mad project

The new motor is here!
End caps (from the old motor) are now sealed and have g1/4 taps with PC coolant fittings attached.
I'm going to use another g1/4 fitting as the port for the wires, now I've checked the wires fit thought the fitting. This will allow me to fill the fitting with silicon sealant, thus preventing oil coming out the wire port.

The rad - a 120mm wide, 65mm width has been mounted on the back, with a Noctua fan.
12v rail to power the pump and fan is installed, now comes on with the ignition switch.
Pump has been mounted.
Soft tubing (10/13mm) has been cut, so the motor can move on the suspension whilst the rad and pump stay still and not have any issues there.

Next step is to test the motor,
put the cable hole and fitting on.
Trim up the wires, wire in
cap the stator with some thin plastic, mainly as I want to force the oil through the coils and not just flow through the center of the stator. The stator will still be submersed in the oil, as I'm only going to cap one end.
Then its fill and test time.
 
Would be interesting to see some real data:
No load current (at full rpm) with and without oil - to understand how much drag the coolant will introduce.
Motor temp with and without coolant.
 
That would require me to put in a thermal probe, which at this stage I haven’t!
Or get an amp meter for the controller - which again I haven’t…
Don’t get me wrong I would like to do the proper comparison but at this stage and my limited time, I’m focusing on getting it working and hopefully not leaking.
 
496bbc4ac80fabd6d6e52c20bcfc8273.jpg

It works…

Filled with deionised water, with anticorrosive additive. I was thinking about the drag, whilst waters mms is 1, even 0W oil is 5.4 and that’s at 100c. Ok so more than air at 1e-5.

Motor spins fine, forward and backwards.

Yet to take it for a spin, that will have to wait till after work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
My amps will now be limited by melting the phase wires going into the motor. Which can easily be replaced.
My controller is 40amp continuous and peaks at 100amps for 30s, but that’s phase amps. Currently the boost switch is set to eco mode (its one or the other) so need to plug it in to a pc and change that.

In testing so far it’s not getting above ambient!
Today I will take it out for a full ride and see what temp the pola to gets to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Back
Top