ES DIY Motor Challenge

Electric Motors and Controllers
olaf-lampe   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 710
Joined: Mar 27 2008 1:25pm
Location: Germany

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by olaf-lampe » Apr 18 2010 1:32pm

enoob wrote:
... wich if im correct may actually work i just havent spent enough time working all the possible connection combinations.
If you like, give me the number of slots and magnets and I work something out for you. My goal was always to have a motorwinding with a low I0 and low cogging. They didn't reach the highest possible power/weight ratio but had a broad band of useful RPM.

-Olaf

User avatar
enoob   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 413
Joined: Oct 15 2009 8:05pm
Location: langley bc .

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by enoob » Apr 19 2010 2:10pm

welll. now theres an offer i wont refuse. even have enough parts laying round to send a copy (should we get is working) in lue of time spent on this with me.

thank you very much .

18 magnets . 42 slots.

the magnet count can be changed very easily the slot count would be a tad more time consuming but im willing to takle either one.

at this point i had intended to try a few combos i suspect may work and then commit to a rewind as that seems the best . to reduce magnet count ill have to increase the spacing between each .

the thread on how that little motor came around took a few turns but here it is . http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 30&t=14264
M.E.N.S ex pres and charter member.

olaf-lampe   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 710
Joined: Mar 27 2008 1:25pm
Location: Germany

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by olaf-lampe » Apr 20 2010 8:02am

YUK!
42 slots mean 14 slots/phase. That doesn't leave much room for phantasy. You can either divide 14/2 or 14/7 or don't divide at all.
Following the non_divide route I found a minimum of 28 magnets ( 14 pairs ) as a useful combination. Winding scheme is A1B1C1...A14B14C14
That would also work with 7*2 tooth, scheme is then A1a1B1b1C1c1...A7a7B7b7C7c7
I hope you are familiar with this description?
The magnet diameter shouldn't be bigger than the head of the tooth.
You're not planning to build a hallbach array this time? Or did you think of 18 mag's where 3 mag's build a 45°hallbach trio?
I'll try to figure that one out...
-Olaf

User avatar
enoob   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 413
Joined: Oct 15 2009 8:05pm
Location: langley bc .

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by enoob » Apr 20 2010 11:28am

no hallbach for a while . figured ill get some conventional stuff under my belt before i start down that path. do still like the idea though

thanks for the time. the winding scheme description is not my bread and butter but i am familiar with it. looking at my notes (wich are horrible) i was using to different info sources and at the time not seeing the whole picture . learned i did.

in an effort to maintain magnet fill and use the same magnets ill make a run at a custom stator.

If i could bother you one more time ? going with the 1/2 inch diameter mags x 18 what would be the optimal slot count. ? and winding scheme ?

thanks again olaf-lampe
M.E.N.S ex pres and charter member.

olaf-lampe   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 710
Joined: Mar 27 2008 1:25pm
Location: Germany

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by olaf-lampe » Apr 21 2010 8:54am

enoob wrote:no hallbach for a while . figured ill get some conventional stuff under my belt before i start down that path. do still like the idea though

thanks for the time. the winding scheme description is not my bread and butter but i am familiar with it. looking at my notes (wich are horrible) i was using to different info sources and at the time not seeing the whole picture . learned i did.

in an effort to maintain magnet fill and use the same magnets ill make a run at a custom stator.

If i could bother you one more time ? going with the 1/2 inch diameter mags x 18 what would be the optimal slot count. ? and winding scheme ?

thanks again olaf-lampe
Always welcome, :)
with 18 mags, the best suitable number of slots would be 27. The diameter of the rotor is something above 93mm ( sorry no inches :oops: )
I would make the airgap as small as possible, because of the odd surface of the mags.
I would rethink the use of rounded mags here, because the inner ironring for the rotor is pretty difficult to build. Maybe you can build a simple ring and glue on the mags with ironpowder/epoxy mix up to the lower half of the mags. But I wouldn't bet on any high RPM capability...
As a prove of concept it would work, but how much would you pay for useable mags?
You can still use them as a charming bracelet :D
Olaf
BTW: If you want something easy to diy a BLDC check ebay for Studer / Revox A77 motors from old HIFI- bandmachines. I have some mags for them, too.
Attachments
sr-motor.jpg
sr-motor.jpg (206.04 KiB) Viewed 2002 times

User avatar
Miles   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11020
Joined: Mar 16 2007 4:15pm
Location: London UK

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by Miles » Apr 21 2010 9:28am

olaf-lampe wrote: BTW: If you want something easy to diy a BLDC check ebay for Studer / Revox A77 motors from old HIFI- bandmachines. I have some mags for them, too.
I used to have a Revox A77 MkIII :)

Image

olaf-lampe   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 710
Joined: Mar 27 2008 1:25pm
Location: Germany

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by olaf-lampe » Apr 21 2010 11:03am

Miles wrote:
olaf-lampe wrote: BTW: If you want something easy to diy a BLDC check ebay for Studer / Revox A77 motors from old HIFI- bandmachines. I have some mags for them, too.
I used to have a Revox A77 :)
You meant, you had had 2 potential 4kW motors! :wink:
BTW B77 also works and some capstan motors have a different mount and shaft, but actually it's the same.
I have a dozen or so of these motors, shipping to UK would be no prob 8)
Olaf

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 25097
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by amberwolf » Apr 22 2010 4:40pm

There's a Revox almost exactly like the one in Miles' pic about two feet from my head; can't recall the model#. Unfortunately A) it's not mine and B) I need it to continue the project of getting all my old open-reel stuff onto the computer. ;)

Another source of really nice BLDC motors is old Sony 1" VTRs used in studios. A friend of mine had a few of the VTRs scrapped from somewhere, and saved everything *except* the motors, which he tossed. :roll: If he'd thought about my bike project he'd probably have saved them for me, but it didn't occur to him for some reason. :cry:

I still have the driver boards for them; have salvaged a number of transistors, FETs, heatsinks, etc. Also some nice giant electrolytics out of the power supplies.

User avatar
AussieJester   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 8736
Joined: Mar 11 2008 3:33am
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge (was "competition")

Post by AussieJester » Apr 22 2010 5:56pm

liveforphysics wrote:
My motor will be matching the KV of these motors, likely around 1/5th the weight, and easily half the inefficiency of these alternator/motor conversions.
So how is this motor going, been 4 months any progress? IIRC all the material have arrived?

Has anyone got a motor up and running yet? Besides enoob...

KiM

User avatar
karma   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 675
Joined: Dec 18 2007 6:02am
Location: hamilton,ontario
Contact:

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by karma » Aug 19 2010 8:08pm

any updates :D

User avatar
sackspeed   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 28
Joined: Aug 24 2010 6:25am
Contact:

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by sackspeed » Aug 24 2010 1:12pm

I´m new here in this forum. We have a projekt page in Germany called "Powercroco". One guy has
developt a bike motor few years ago.

http://www.powercroco.de/24N28P6530.html

Image
Image

These motor was not make of best material. So if it improfe by a few detail it will be very good to built a nice small motor. :D


Mario
NuVinci + 1200W, Full suspension

User avatar
Miles   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11020
Joined: Mar 16 2007 4:15pm
Location: London UK

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by Miles » Aug 24 2010 1:41pm

Welcome Mario!

Coincidentally, I posted a link to that motor 3 days ago, as an example of a 24N 28P winding scheme... :)

User avatar
sackspeed   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 28
Joined: Aug 24 2010 6:25am
Contact:

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by sackspeed » Aug 25 2010 5:24pm

sorry Miles,

I see it. The problem of the design are the stator iron sheets. You can get only sheets of 0.5 mm. With 0.35 or 0.2 mm sheets the motor
will work fine. Perhaps you know this site at Powercroco?

http://www.powercroco.de/24N28P6520.html
NuVinci + 1200W, Full suspension

User avatar
Miles   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11020
Joined: Mar 16 2007 4:15pm
Location: London UK

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by Miles » Aug 25 2010 5:39pm

Mario,

Yes, I know the site. I actually corresponded with Dr Okon about this motor, five or six years ago.

User avatar
liveforphysics   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13942
Joined: Oct 29 2008 1:48am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by liveforphysics » Aug 26 2010 12:26am

Great to have you here Sackspeed. :) I've used the powercroco site as a reference for various projects about a hundred times or so. :) Thank you for your work.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

User avatar
Arlo1   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 8112
Joined: Apr 26 2009 10:36pm
Location: Nanaimo
Contact:

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by Arlo1 » Aug 30 2010 3:20am

Luke you still working on this?
Ok so..... If my motor was liquid cooled for this chalange would we weigh it in dry?
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
Support me on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/user/posts?u=6842045
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

User avatar
Miles   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11020
Joined: Mar 16 2007 4:15pm
Location: London UK

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by Miles » Aug 30 2010 3:27am

Arlo1 wrote: If my motor was liquid cooled for this chalange would we weigh it in dry?
LOL! You'd weigh it dry and you'd have to run it dry :mrgreen:

User avatar
Arlo1   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 8112
Joined: Apr 26 2009 10:36pm
Location: Nanaimo
Contact:

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by Arlo1 » Aug 30 2010 9:46am

Miles wrote:
Arlo1 wrote: If my motor was liquid cooled for this chalange would we weigh it in dry?
LOL! You'd weigh it dry and you'd have to run it dry :mrgreen:
Then Im out cause I got a realy good idea! Like so good I cant belive its not already in use! :mrgreen:
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
Support me on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/user/posts?u=6842045
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

User avatar
Miles   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11020
Joined: Mar 16 2007 4:15pm
Location: London UK

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by Miles » Aug 30 2010 9:54am

There's usually a reason.....

Give us a clue......... :)

existerion   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 1
Joined: Apr 16 2010 5:18am

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by existerion » Nov 18 2010 6:58am

Hy,

We build such a motor in small series for our prototype scooters.

Data:
2,8kg
Continuous: 5,69Nm at 2395rpm and 1653W in 86,3% efficiency
Max: 8,58Nm at 2252rmp and 2482W in and 81,5%efficiency

We could probably sell them at 1000$ at this stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvOFFiFQ8I0

modern_messiah   100 W

100 W
Posts: 152
Joined: Dec 15 2010 5:44pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by modern_messiah » Jan 06 2011 5:59am

Sorry if it's been covered but does it matter if it's a standard BLDC or a AF motor?

I'm building a AF motor and if it works I'll put the stats up here. Note that I did no maths for the design - I simply picked my desired size and went from there. Everything else is 'as much as I could fit within the desired frame'. Also nice and cheap material wise - no hallbach/litz wire craziness going on in this house!

User avatar
Miles   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11020
Joined: Mar 16 2007 4:15pm
Location: London UK

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by Miles » Jan 06 2011 6:21am

modern_messiah wrote:Sorry if it's been covered but does it matter if it's a standard BLDC or a AF motor?
No. All motor types allowed.

User avatar
AussieJester   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 8736
Joined: Mar 11 2008 3:33am
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by AussieJester » Jan 06 2011 6:33am

Miles wrote:
modern_messiah wrote:Sorry if it's been covered but does it matter if it's a standard BLDC or a AF motor?
No. All motor types allowed.

Would be great to actually see a motor, any motor LoL... been alot of talk since Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:05 pm
when this thread was started and IIRC not a single motor tested yet.

KiM

User avatar
Thud   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2686
Joined: Aug 20 2009 6:20am
Location: West Michigan,USA

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by Thud » Jan 06 2011 6:35am

LOL AJ.

........WHO will be first?.........
get some......

All information & advice provided by Thud are "Open Source" & free for personal use & distribution under the following agreement linked below.
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/

modern_messiah   100 W

100 W
Posts: 152
Joined: Dec 15 2010 5:44pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: ES DIY Motor Challenge

Post by modern_messiah » Jan 10 2011 3:29am

Money permitting I'll have mine done...this year lol. ASAP would be great (was aiming for May-ish), but I'm almost scared to send my design to the laser shop for cutting. It's fairly intricate $$$$.

Post Reply