emotofreak
100 mW
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2008
- Messages
- 39
Planning a rediculously fast race bike. We're looking for a 50-100kw motor. Any ideas?
Need a 50-100kW motor
- Thread starter emotofreak
- Start date
markobetti
10 kW
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2009
- Messages
- 620
Miles , guys in yuneec dont relly answer e mails. Once one person answer to explain that hes on vacation . Did you try? I would love to see what are the prices of their controllers ?
olaf-lampe
10 kW
Miles said:
Nice links Miles!
The yunee motor makes the original colossus look like a cheap copy. :lol:
I wonder if their controllers are good for high power@low RPM?
Starting a propeller is no issue. Also all motors only rev 2400rpm, due to controller e-rpm limits?
-Olaf
markobetti
10 kW
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2009
- Messages
- 620
That would be great , thanks Miles
Biff
100 W
How much money do you have to spend?
http://www.motoczysz.com/main.php?area=news_view&art_id=112&p_id=314&return_path=home
http://www.motoczysz.com/main.php?area=edd_overview
I am designing a similar motor (but outrunner, so it should be more powerful and lighter), it will likely cost similar to the MotoCzysz, probably around $15,000 for a hand assembled motor (with whatever customizations you want to design yourslef) and between $2,000 and $8,000 for a controller. If you have that kind of coin let me know and I can cut you in now in the early stages so If you want to split the prototyping / design costs you could save a bunch of money with the risk that it doesn't work as well as my software says it will
The other standard and least expensive option is to use a couple Agni-motors, or other tandem drive.
http://www.motoczysz.com/main.php?area=news_view&art_id=112&p_id=314&return_path=home
http://www.motoczysz.com/main.php?area=edd_overview
I am designing a similar motor (but outrunner, so it should be more powerful and lighter), it will likely cost similar to the MotoCzysz, probably around $15,000 for a hand assembled motor (with whatever customizations you want to design yourslef) and between $2,000 and $8,000 for a controller. If you have that kind of coin let me know and I can cut you in now in the early stages so If you want to split the prototyping / design costs you could save a bunch of money with the risk that it doesn't work as well as my software says it will
The other standard and least expensive option is to use a couple Agni-motors, or other tandem drive.
markobetti
10 kW
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2009
- Messages
- 620
olaf-lampe said:
Rel nice Olaf, real nice... . This "cheap copy" that we are working on for 5 months and more.. has water cooling..... but who cares ,right ?
I belive that Yuneec motors are really great and i belive one of the best serious outrunners and it would be interesting to see a conversion with them , my friend saw them in Nurnberg and he thinks that they are worth what they cost....
johnrobholmes
10 MW
I think the Yunee would cool plenty with the prop wash and forced air, no need for watercooling in that application :lol:
emotofreak
100 mW
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2008
- Messages
- 39
Paying good money for a proven motor is not off the table. But the prices are a bit silly when you get way up there. I'm tempted to put 8 of those HK 7kW RC motors in a box and voila, instant 50 kW power for $800. Well not instant, have to figure belts or gears or something into the equation, but still, it's hard to stomach a $10,000+ motor when 2-4 Agnis or 8 RC motors will provide similar power at about 1/10th the cost. Don't get me wrong, I know there's good reasons for a well engineered motor solution, I just want to find something cost effective and a potential motor for our production motorcycles.
Why does price per kW get so steep when you start getting over 10-20kW? Is there some law of physics that dictates it or is it simply a function of supply and demand?
Why does price per kW get so steep when you start getting over 10-20kW? Is there some law of physics that dictates it or is it simply a function of supply and demand?
AussieJester
1 TW
emotofreak said:
I understand where your coming frome but on the other hand they are made for human aviation, i think i would feel alot less safe if they were 500 bucks a pop and powering my ultralight wouldnt you?
Best of luck finding a suitable soultion.
KiM
p.s haha Autobot-Miles you joker you, you can't walk into a building you silly bot you, you dont have a body or legs...maybe a DOS attack to get their attention Miles
Biff
100 W
emotofreak said:
Remember that the RC motors power specification is often dependant on extremely fast air passing by, so I am not sure how much power those motors can actully deliver without the air passing by. Related to that is their efficiency isn't as good (probably near 90%) so a significant amount of heat is produced and needs to be removed (hence the large amount of air that needs to be traveling past).
One reason why the price of high-power light-weight motors increases is the relatively low demand, and therefore hand building and higher manufacturing cost. Another reason is the amount of engineering that needs to go into them, which needs to be paid back over a small number of sold products. Designing a single larger motor is more complicated than multiple small motors. The larger diameter, coupled with high speed means really high bell velocities and centripital forces, and therefore alot of things need to be considered in the balance and rigidity of the bell. The larger overhung area, or the incorporation of a skirt support adds complexities. Removing the significant amount of heat in a small area is also more complicated.
I totally agree, that paying more than $10,000 for a motor will be limited to a very few applications. I think if my motor were mass produced (100 units per year), it could probably be around $1,600. The first prototypes with laser cut laminations, low volume CNC machined components and hand wound and assembly (by myself) will have a significant cost. The expeimental nature of this cutting edge design will mean alot of pre-protytpe testing which will also add to the cost of development.
I guess I didn't mention the size specs of the 100kW design that I am working on. The current modeling indicates that the motor will weigh around 25kg without the cooling liquid (hopefully lighter if possible, I haven't compleated the FEA stress anaysis of the components yet), and be approximatly 20cm long with a 24cm outside diameter.
-ryan
olaf-lampe
10 kW
markobetti said:
Don't get me wrong marko! I wrote original colossus, not what you and HAL made of it!
Sorry , I wasn't precies enough with my description.
-Olaf
markcycle
10 kW
emotofreak said:
So I'm confused why aren't you using 2 or 4 Agni since you are already using one
Do you have a battery pack to support a 50KW motor?
emotofreak
100 mW
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2008
- Messages
- 39
Miles said:
Yes, I really am. Have been with the company since day 1(and even before that).
markcycle said:
Our current race bike has approx 7.5kWh of Li-Ion batteries on board and is capable of over 75 kw peak output. We placed 5th at the Infineon TTXGP (also taking 1st with the twin-motored Agni bike) and 1st at the recent REFUEL race. We failed to qualify at the recent E-power race, prompting this search for a new motor
Our current bike only has 1 Agni which is obviously a limiting factor. Going to 2 is probably going to be our next step, but I'm really over brushed motors and if we could find a cheap or sponsored brushless motor solution we would rather go that way. We also have an uber-Li-Po battery in the works, over 10kWh, with a huge C rate. So having a motor solution that can take full advantage of a huge battery pack is really the end-goal here.I should be clear that this is not an official Zero project, nor is any of the stuff I'm discussing here a part of any "official" Zero business.
Thanks for the responses, I've already shot off some emails and hopefully something will bear fruit. This is a great community and thanks for helping out.
thedarlington
100 W
that must be awesome to be living right in the middle of everything up there in london miles, i wonder what Yuneec's hq is like and word on that yuneec's pricing?
also, has anyone heard of that QuinetiQ motor? its touted as half as heavy as typical electric motors but over double the power or something like that, was installed on the Morgan Life car, wonder if its got any substance to that or just overhyped marketing
also, has anyone heard of that QuinetiQ motor? its touted as half as heavy as typical electric motors but over double the power or something like that, was installed on the Morgan Life car, wonder if its got any substance to that or just overhyped marketing
frodus
10 kW
DTEK said:
UQM
Biff
100 W
Maybe now that Zero has $1.8M to work on a new powertrain, this could become an official project. My offer is still good, if you want to develop a motor that could potentially output up to 200hp and weight less than 30kg, let me know.
http://www.electricbikee.com/zero-motorcycles-awarded-grant-for-advanced-electric-powertrain-development-program/
http://www.electricbikee.com/zero-motorcycles-awarded-grant-for-advanced-electric-powertrain-development-program/
