Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by gwhy! » Dec 20, 2012 7:31 pm

I think Is mainly for the attention of Thud but please if anyone one else can throw some light on it I would be very happy.

In the below post is from page 1 , say's that there are some jpegs from drive calc for a 80/85 motor but there isnt a link :(

I am just about to embark on trying some rewinds on the smaller bigger motors ( 8085's ) I never even thought about rewinding a motor before now and I am looking for a starting point where I can jump in :D ,

I know I should really work all the stuff out for myself but Im guessing that someone have already done the donkey work and has a very good starting point.
I want a Kv of around 100 - 120 in wye and Im guessing I need around 6/7 turns ( but I dont know yet what gauge wire I would need )

Is anyone using a re-wound 8085 and what sort of currents/performance are you getting ?
Thud wrote:Again, Thanks to Jeremy Harris.

I have found this chart to be super acurate with the 80/100 turnigys & all rpm's are assumed terminated in Delta...
for the Lower rpm Wye termination, Divide by 1.73 to get your Kv example- 132/1.73= 76kv
See how flexable these are for getting anything you want?

Next are some Jpeg's of drive calculator with some winding senario's
I compair the copper cross section's & resistance values of the wind senario..to get an idea of what I will end up with.
80-100 turnigy winds.zip

next some info for the 80/85 motor:
80-85 Turnigy winds.zip

that ought to get a few guys introuble

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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by Thud » Dec 20, 2012 8:10 pm

Hey gwhy

I have restored the zip files in the OP.

For a 120 ish Kv, I will suggest a 9-turn wye-terminated wind. You can get that with 12-awg wire without to much fuss.
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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by gwhy! » Dec 21, 2012 7:40 am

Thud wrote:Hey gwhy

I have restored the zip files in the OP.

For a 120 ish Kv I will suggest a 9turn wye terminated wind. You can get that with 12awg wire without to much fuss.
Thanks Thud, very helpfull. I will have a play :D

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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by gwhy! » Dec 23, 2012 4:16 pm

Ok another quick question, How do you guys terminate your windings i.e if doing a wye do you join the 3 ends of the phases all within the motor or do you bring them out side and then join them up ? , just trying to get some idea about the space requirements needed :D I got to wait till after the Christmas hols for my mag wire to be delivered... :( before I can start playing.

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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by Arlo1 » Dec 23, 2012 6:19 pm

gwhy! wrote:Ok another quick question, How do you guys terminate your windings i.e if doing a wye do you join the 3 ends of the phases all within the motor or do you bring them out side and then join them up ? , just trying to get some idea about the space requirements needed :D I got to wait till after the Christmas hols for my mag wire to be delivered... :( before I can start playing.
I think its best to keep the WYE joint short as you can. SO usaly I find you will want that inside the motor.
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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by Thud » Dec 23, 2012 8:06 pm

I have always terminated internally.
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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by gwhy! » Dec 24, 2012 5:18 am

Thanks guys,
So now I know there 'should' be room inside the motor to sort this out :D .

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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by Danny Mayes » Feb 25, 2013 2:20 am

My motors need new bearings...

Just looking for some input/recommendations from what others have done.

Has anyone just replaced with the standard vxb ones? if so how have they held up??

If they are not up to the job then any reccommendations on what may be would be a great help.

Thanks,

D

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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by Thud » Feb 25, 2013 7:39 am

I have been using the standard grade from VXB.com without issues...
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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by mauimart » Feb 25, 2013 11:34 am

I can't say I have had the best luck with the generic VXB (Thailand made) bearings but then again when shifting under WOT with 5000W surges some failures can be expected. I just recently replaced the 12x21mm bearings with a set from McMaster. They are made in Japan so I'm expecting better life. I'll keep my thread updated when I experience the next failure. The outer skirt bearing from VXB has held up nicely.

5972K276 Metric Steel Ball Bearing, Double Sealed Bearing No. 6801 for 12MM Shaft Diameter 3 Each
$9.07 each

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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by Danny Mayes » Feb 26, 2013 12:46 am

OK, Thanks for the info fellas, and the link mauimart.

D

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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by gwhy! » May 31, 2013 5:56 pm

This is what remains of my first rewind of a 8085 :cry: ,, i got a feeling that it didnt just burn out due to high current, it was being run on a race bike that 80% of the time was pulling 6kw - 7.5kw for maybe 10mins at a time , It finally gave up after about 15 total hours of racing, Do anyone think its fair to say that the meltdown was not do to with a over heating motor initially? and that one of the coils got loose and caught up with the mags and this is what killed it.. just looking for opinions.. Thanks :)
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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by Thud » May 31, 2013 11:39 pm

Here is my speculative assesment.
Overall, it looks quite toasted....but the loose wire folded over the stator would be the final death blow.

Were the windings taking on the darker color before the final incedent?
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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by gwhy! » Jun 01, 2013 4:27 am

They were darker than the new enamel wire but no where near as black as they are in these pictures. Before this happend the motor never smelt to hot ( which is a good sign ) but Im guessing that maybe the coil that managed to get trapped popped out due to wire expansion as the whole core of the motor gets rather toasty, max temps i have see at the core is 160-180 but still within spec for the max temp of the enamel which is 220. I think i need to try and wind my motors a lot neater and tighter in the future.

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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by Thud » Jun 01, 2013 5:29 am

You may want to set the wires with a dab of high temp epoxy, or better yet, pick up a can of the real motor winding lacquer also.

Anything to secure the windings from movment on the stator will delay vibration induced abrasion on the wires.
They should be bullet proof- mechanically speaking.

Watts are watts....but what voltage are you running these babies at? I see a bit more temp on my motors pushing the wattage #s you mention...but I typically run 18cells & am spinning 9k rpm's unloaded.

Keep us posted on the updates.
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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by gwhy! » Jun 02, 2013 1:19 pm

Thud wrote:You may want to set the wires with a dab of high temp epoxy, or better yet, pick up a can of the real motor winding lacquer also.

Anything to secure the windings from movment on the stator will delay vibration induced abrasion on the wires.
They should be bullet proof- mechanically speaking.

Watts are watts....but what voltage are you running these babies at? I see a bit more temp on my motors pushing the wattage #s you mention...but I typically run 18cells & am spinning 9k rpm's unloaded.

Keep us posted on the updates.
Yes im going to get some nice winding lacquer for the the next ones that I test. I run these motors at 50V ( 12s ) they have a kv of 120'ish and are in WYE. the motor is positioned only about 20mm from the rear wheel so there is quite a lot of forced cooling going on when the bike is upto speed which I think helps.

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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by gwhy! » Jun 02, 2013 4:24 pm

I took the wires off the stator and the 2 windings that have totally burnt have also burnt the ( powder coating / epoxy ?) away , so the 2 stator teeth has no insulation on them at all now. The 2 teeth that are either side of the burnt coils have been burnt due to the heat from the main burnt coils but the rest of the wire (the enamel) is all still in very good nick ( not flaking ) so the problem was isolated to just these 2 coils and I am 99% sure now that it was just down to a winding breaking loose and getting trapped in the mags.. due to the damage caused to the stator I have made a little note to myself: if things start to smoke DONT keep trying to push it.. as its only going to get worst !! :mrgreen:

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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by Danny Mayes » Jun 03, 2013 7:33 am

hey gwhy! how did you terminate the wind? Did you cut the wires after the join there or were they blown appart? d

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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by gwhy! » Jun 03, 2013 12:01 pm

the wind was terminated in WYE, the connection of the 3 windings were still intact but all the heat shrink got burnt off.

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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by Danny Mayes » Jun 03, 2013 8:09 pm

Wow, i missed that wire folded over the stator when I looked at it late last night. Interesting how malleable that copper is! I guess the heat helped..

Regarding my question, I wasn't very clear. With the termination, was wondering if you soldered the joins together and just heat shrunk or if you fixed them with epoxy?

Thanks for sharing btw, I need to do some mechanical isolating of my wind i think...!

D

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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by AussieJester » Jun 03, 2013 9:09 pm

ThudSTeR can confirm i hope GWhy but i suggest using 'nomex'? paper on the stator teeth BEFORE winding so you have the motor insulation (now burnt off as you stated) but also the nomex paper, the wires whn pulled tight can break the stator insulation...definately try to get the windings tight and neat and asthe main man ThuD suggested some epoxy to hold the wire in place, i use motor laquer myself i got from your part of the world actually, poured a whole bottle over my CA120 windings, they is rock solid and not going anywayz soon.... well...i hope haha

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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by gwhy! » Jun 04, 2013 3:15 am

Danny Mayes wrote:
Regarding my question, I wasn't very clear. With the termination, was wondering if you soldered the joins together and just heat shrunk or if you fixed them with epoxy?

Thanks for sharing btw, I need to do some mechanical isolating of my wind i think...!

D
The 6 ends of the winds were wrapped with some very thin strands of copper wire to mechanically keep them together then soldered then 2 layers of heat shrink over the joint. The solder must have burnt away totally as there was no sign of it anywhere. The fine wire done its job very well and the 6 ends were still connected so there was no need for epoxy.
AussieJester wrote:ThudSTeR can confirm i hope GWhy but i suggest using 'nomex'? paper on the stator teeth BEFORE winding so you have the motor insulation (now burnt off as you stated) but also the nomex paper, the wires whn pulled tight can break the stator insulation...definately try to get the windings tight and neat and asthe main man ThuD suggested some epoxy to hold the wire in place, i use motor laquer myself i got from your part of the world actually, poured a whole bottle over my CA120 windings, they is rock solid and not going anywayz soon.... well...i hope haha

KiM


Hi AJ , It had nomex paper on the stator but this was totally burnt through on these stator teeth. I want to try and avoid epoxy for fixing as it can end up quite a thick layer and may not shed heat as well as a thinner layer of lacquer os this is the next way I intend to go. Cheers.

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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by AussieJester » Jun 06, 2013 8:28 pm

Roger that n the use of nomex paper ;-)

Danny, i did exactly as GWhy did for the terminations...

re: phase wires, I did a little different to the rest, i didnt attach any wires internally
deciding instead to bring the windings out to the edge of he motor and then solder 6mm
bullet connectors directly to the magnet wire, for the CA120 it couldn't have worked better... :wink:

KiM

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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by Arlo1 » Jun 06, 2013 11:31 pm

I got my Nomex paper from Dave here he is very good to deal with.
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Re: Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)

Post by spinningmagnets » Jun 14, 2013 9:05 am

there is no magic...only variables
Found a good tutorial on winding outrunners. I thought this might be a good thread to park it. I have seen many others, but this one had good graphics and pics as examples, and describes some of the benefits/drawbacks of each possible choice, rather than "X is the best way, don't ask any questions".

Click on "Articles from southeasters", and then "Electric motors, Part-1" (there are 5 parts)
http://www.southernsoaringclub.org.za/

This kind of info is golden, thanks, Thud!:
So far, I havent built a better motor & controller set up than the 6-turn, 2-in hand, 14G, dLRK/wye terminated motor...run the thing with a 12 or 18 FET XieChang with a 6-Kw limit on 20 cells & you will not find a better RC power combination...The motor finds balance right there, more rpm's (voltage) brings iron losses to un-acceptable levels, more current & the copper insulation is going to fry.
__________________________________________
Concerning gwhy's fried stator winding that lasted 15 hours of racing. I believe Aussie Jester has it right. Factory motors have their windings dipped in epoxy after they are wound and tested for shorts. One of the things that this accomplishes is that it keeps the individual wires from rubbing against each other and wearing away the magnet wire clear insulation, which of course causes a short.
Last edited by spinningmagnets on Jul 20, 2014 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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