All magnet spining inside the X5 !!... with a static wheel !

Doctorbass

Doctorbass

100 GW
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
7,496
Location
Quebec, Canada East
Let me show you the most impressive torture i saw with an X5 motor.

I had permission to talk about that from the responsible of that torture, ( Christopher aka CHXS)

He did two things that nobody ever acheived from now as i know:


-Twisting TWO X5 axel ( one twisted and one completly broke)

-Unsticking ALL magnet of the rotor!!.. I mean.. he twist the throttle and the wheel dont move... instead....THE MAGNET MOVE !!!!.. ( i mean.. all the magnet sping instde the rotor!!!!) :shock:

This is a new gen X5 used with a 18 fets 4110 modded controller and 28s 5p A123 battery on a norco front suspension ebike.

Remember the X5 that Methods burned at 420F... guess what.. This motor look like similar.. BUT also had these two extreme axel and magnet torture!

i'll post pictures of that... or ... movie !!! of the magnet spining !!! :twisted: :twisted: He gaved me the motor for investigations so i'll put it on my Kelly :twisted: :mrgreen: for fun...


Doc
 
You should check with Xlyte to find out if they are using a new epoxy for the magnets, because he obviously got it hot enough to melt the epoxy. I'd be surprised if the magnets aren't damaged from the heat. If the magnets are still fine, then maybe they should look at using vinyl ester resin instead of epoxy. It's cheaper so they should like that, and it handles higher temps than epoxy.

CHXS must be having some real fun to torture an X5 like that. Maybe it's time to graduate to an X6.

I think this smiley is more appropriate. :cry:
 
John in CR said:
You should check with Xlyte to find out if they are using a new epoxy for the magnets, because he obviously got it hot enough to melt the epoxy. I'd be surprised if the magnets aren't damaged from the heat. If the magnets are still fine, then maybe they should look at using vinyl ester resin instead of epoxy. It's cheaper so they should like that, and it handles higher temps than epoxy.

CHXS must be having some real fun to torture an X5 like that. Maybe it's time to graduate to an X6.

I think this smiley is more appropriate. :cry:
Click to expand...

I think it's not an epoxy that hold the magnet in the crystalyte motor. They should use the 3M scotchweld DP460 epoxy !!!

NOTHING IS BETTER THAN THAT!!! 4600psi shear strengh!!! and great endurance at high temp!

The DP420 is also excellent.. I personally use that at work for many project as well as the EC2216 aerospace grade epoxy and it's very tough!!!

I rebuilt a broken bionx with that and the magnet will NEVER MOVE again!

Doc
 
Doctorbass said:
John in CR said:
You should check with Xlyte to find out if they are using a new epoxy for the magnets, because he obviously got it hot enough to melt the epoxy. I'd be surprised if the magnets aren't damaged from the heat. If the magnets are still fine, then maybe they should look at using vinyl ester resin instead of epoxy. It's cheaper so they should like that, and it handles higher temps than epoxy.

CHXS must be having some real fun to torture an X5 like that. Maybe it's time to graduate to an X6.

I think this smiley is more appropriate. :cry:
Click to expand...

I think it's not an epoxy that hold the magnet in the crystalyte motor. They should use the 3M scotchweld DP460 epoxy !!!

NOTHING IS BETTER THAN THAT!!! 4600psi shear strengh!!! and great endurance at high temp!

The DP420 is also excellent.. I personally use that at work for many project as well as the EC2216 aerospace grade epoxy and it's very tough!!!

I rebuilt a broken bionx with that and the magnet will NEVER MOVE again!

Doc
Click to expand...


and mix a few ounces of carbon fiber particles in the resin. double the psi :p

yes pics or movie :wink:
 
Good luck getting Kenny to switch to some expensive space grade epoxy. LOL! Something cheaper but better for the intended use is a far more likely to be adopted.
 
John in CR said:
Good luck getting Kenny to switch to some expensive space grade epoxy. LOL! Something cheaper but better for the intended use is a far more likely to be adopted.
Click to expand...

Tell me about it I did but it was Sooo painful I had to spin the magnet many times before he would believe and do some serious threatening.

We will be using Loctite 3342 on all future motors.

Mark
 

Attachments

  • Locktight 3342-EN.pdf
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I think I tried some of that stuff before but could never get it to harden properly. I'm not sure if it was expired or what, but I was using the recommended activator.

Intersting plot from the datasheet:loctite3342 hot strength.jpg

I suspect most epoxies have similar loss of strength at high temperatures.
 
When I was looking at the lrk website It said most people used devcon to glue the magnets.
 
Kenny is THE guy at Xlyte.

Doc,
Am I reading the specs correctly and that epoxy weakens tremendously by 82°C? Don't epoxies need to be baked during curing to obtain high temp resistance, which is a no-go for us due to the magnets?
 
John in CR said:
Kenny is THE guy at Xlyte.

Doc,
Am I reading the specs correctly and that epoxy weakens tremendously by 82°C? Don't epoxies need to be baked during curing to obtain high temp resistance, which is a no-go for us due to the magnets?
Click to expand...

if you bake the epoxy to 100 celsius for half an hour it work well and since we push our X5 to 125 celsius on the rotor for many years without to notice any lost of power, i think it's ok :wink:

BTW... the DP460 after it is cured IS EXTREMLY STRONG !!! LIKE STEEL !!! very impressive!!! we did personal shear test on alumimun and we broke the metal instead of the epoxy!
 
Doctorbass said:
if you bake the epoxy to 100 celsius for half an hour it work well
Click to expand...
So in theory for better home-DIY temperature control, you could just double-boil the epoxied magnet ring, sealed in a plastic baggie? Hmmm..
 
Devcon makes some increadible metal/metal high temp adhesives. They use them inside racing engine cylinder heads and intake manifolds all the time, they do custom blends to exactly match the thermal expansion coefficient of the alloys of metal you are bonding them upon. Last little jar of the stuff I bought was over $100 though... Somehow I don't see Kenny wanting to double the materials cost of a hubmotor just to mount the magnets though. lol
 
amberwolf said:
Doctorbass said:
if you bake the epoxy to 100 celsius for half an hour it work well
Click to expand...
So in theory for better home-DIY temperature control, you could just double-boil the epoxied magnet ring, sealed in a plastic baggie? Hmmm..
Click to expand...

heh or just throw the magnet ring in the oven for a few hour till it hardens :wink:
 
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